The Real "Big 4" is Here!

[daelaria]

Save your breath to pump their tires when they can deliver a bachelor's. Or even just an associates without traditional credits.

They're fantastic for what they are: A great alternative route to an AAS. But they still require more traditional credits for that AAS. Not even an AA/AS, let alone BA/BS.

I would recommend them in all sorts of situations, and I think they're one of the greatest new discoveries this forum has uncovered over the past year or whatever.. but they're not in the same league as the Big 3.

No, definitely not. Associate's degrees have such a limited usefulness that most folks are better off skipping one and going right to a bachelor's. I would only recommend one if it's no pain on the way to the bachelor's, the associate's has a definable value to the students career, or the student simply cannot finish a bachelor's in a timely manner.

Agreed. The only associates that are worthwhile are specific career focused associates like nursing, IT or trades.

That's not really true. This might be different across regions, or maybe even industries. In my state, 60 credits qualifies me to work as a substitute teacher, a tutor, or for various administrative positions. It's not a catapult into the middle class, but it certainly opens doors to fields or positions I wouldn't be qualified for without at least an AA. I've worked in offices and restaurants for the last 15 years and when promotions are on the table, generally a Bartender with an AA will be promoted to bar manager over one without, all things being equal. There are also a lot of entry level jobs that will list an associate's as a prerequisite if someone has other related experience. Many of the positions at the local community college are worded that way. It's not worthless - for many of us starting out at the bottom socioeconomically, that climb from 20k to 28k in earnings is HUGE - as well as the nod of respect that comes with having completed SOME kind of degree.

[dfrecore]

Agreed. The only associates that are worthwhile are specific career focused associates like nursing, IT or trades.

That's not really true. This might be different across regions, or maybe even industries. In my state, 60 credits qualifies me to work as a substitute teacher, a tutor, or for various administrative positions. It's not a catapult into the middle class, but it certainly opens doors to fields or positions I wouldn't be qualified for without at least an AA. I've worked in offices and restaurants for the last 15 years and when promotions are on the table, generally a Bartender with an AA will be promoted to bar manager over one without, all things being equal. There are also a lot of entry level jobs that will list an associate's as a prerequisite if someone has other related experience. Many of the positions at the local community college are worded that way. It's not worthless - for many of us starting out at the bottom socioeconomically, that climb from 20k to 28k in earnings is HUGE - as well as the nod of respect that comes with having completed SOME kind of degree.

Quick question - when you say 60cr qualifies you to be a substitute, is that an actual AA, or just 60cr?  Because there is a difference.

Also, the talk here was of the limited usefulness of an AA.  It MAY be good for some people, and those people usually come on here and ask about them because they actually need an AA for a particular reason.  We are happy to help them get one.

But for someone who doesn't need one, and just thinks that an AA might be useful in some way, we try steering them to actually complete the BA (especially because some of the Big 3 require a capstone course for an AA, or the same price for the Residency Waiver as a BA, in which case the AA becomes fairly expensive).

[clep3705]

Fire, police, substitute teaching may have a 60 hours of college hours requirement, but not specifically an associate's degree. If a person has that many hours, filing for graduation is a good idea. For $10-25 they can have an associate's degree. Sure, the ultimate goal should be getting a bachelor's degree. For many who have struggled to get the 60 hours, completing the baccalaureate degree might be a long way off with life getting in the way more than once. The difference between just 60 hours and 60 hours including a degree is that the associate's degree holder gets to say she or he finished a degree program. That can sound good in an interview.

I encourage people to get the associate's degree on the way to getting a bachelor's degree if it is convenient to do so.

[dfrecore]

Fire, police, substitute teaching may have a 60 hours of college hours requirement, but not specifically an associate's degree. If a person has that many hours, filing for graduation is a good idea. For $10-25 they can have an associate's degree. Sure, the ultimate goal should be getting a bachelor's degree. For many who have struggled to get the 60 hours, completing the baccalaureate degree might be a long way off with life getting in the way more than once. The difference between just 60 hours and 60 hours including a degree is that the associate's degree holder gets to say she or he finished a degree program. That can sound good in an interview.

I encourage people to get the associate's degree on the way to getting a bachelor's degree if it is convenient to do so.

Ah, but there are many people who have 60cr and are nowhere close to an AA (except now maybe the BOG AAS).  I had 75 credits but no AA and would have had to take a lot of classes to get one, even a general one.  60cr almost certainly does not equal an AA for most people, I don't think (between moving, changing schools, changing majors).

[davewill]

That's why I always include the caveat about people for who the associate's has a definable value, or who have any doubt about finishing the bachelor's promptly. An associate's is definitely MUCH better than just a high school diploma.

[Life Long Learning]

That's why I always include the caveat about people for who the associate's has a definable value, or who have any doubt about finishing the bachelor's promptly. An associate's is definitely MUCH better than just a high school diploma.

20 Highest Paying Associate Degree Jobs in 2018
https://www.geteducated.com/careers/high...egree-jobs
 
Air Traffic Controller, Salary: $122,410
Radiation Therapist, Salary: $80,160
Nuclear Technician, Salary: $79,140
Radiologic & MRI Technologist, Salary: $58,960
Computer Programmer, Salary: $79,840
Nuclear Medicine Technologist, Salary: $74,350
Dental Hygienist, Salary: $72,910

[dfrecore]

That's why I always include the caveat about people for who the associate's has a definable value, or who have any doubt about finishing the bachelor's promptly. An associate's is definitely MUCH better than just a high school diploma.

20 Highest Paying Associate Degree Jobs in 2018
https://www.geteducated.com/careers/high...egree-jobs
 
Air Traffic Controller, Salary: $122,410
Radiation Therapist, Salary: $80,160
Nuclear Technician, Salary: $79,140
Radiologic & MRI Technologist, Salary: $58,960
Computer Programmer, Salary: $79,840
Nuclear Medicine Technologist, Salary: $74,350
Dental Hygienist, Salary: $72,910

I've heard through the grapevine by a friend who is an air traffic controller, that you will probably not get hired if you only have an AA.  She said it's a pretty rigorous screening process, it took MONTHS to get through it all, there's a lot of competition, and then after she got hired, she got sent to a very small airport out in podunk, middle of the country USA, and definitely does NOT get paid $122k.  She thinks she will make this in 5 years after she's moved several times to different, progressively larger airports.  Oh, and did I mention that you'll have to move all over the country, probably not to the area of your choice, several times?  So if you're married, hopefully your spouse is up for moving to middle of nowhere Kansas, and trying to find a gig there that pays the bills.  Let's not even mention the stress, and extremely high burnout rate.

Just to say that no, a BA is not a REQUIREMENT for some positions, but chances are high you won't get hired without one.  And that this is certainly not the starting salary for some of these positions.

[daelaria]

Agreed. The only associates that are worthwhile are specific career focused associates like nursing, IT or trades.

That's not really true. This might be different across regions, or maybe even industries. In my state, 60 credits qualifies me to work as a substitute teacher, a tutor, or for various administrative positions. It's not a catapult into the middle class, but it certainly opens doors to fields or positions I wouldn't be qualified for without at least an AA. I've worked in offices and restaurants for the last 15 years and when promotions are on the table, generally a Bartender with an AA will be promoted to bar manager over one without, all things being equal. There are also a lot of entry level jobs that will list an associate's as a prerequisite if someone has other related experience. Many of the positions at the local community college are worded that way. It's not worthless - for many of us starting out at the bottom socioeconomically, that climb from 20k to 28k in earnings is HUGE - as well as the nod of respect that comes with having completed SOME kind of degree.

Quick question - when you say 60cr qualifies you to be a substitute, is that an actual AA, or just 60cr?  Because there is a difference.

Also, the talk here was of the limited usefulness of an AA.  It MAY be good for some people, and those people usually come on here and ask about them because they actually need an AA for a particular reason.  We are happy to help them get one.

But for someone who doesn't need one, and just thinks that an AA might be useful in some way, we try steering them to actually complete the BA (especially because some of the Big 3 require a capstone course for an AA, or the same price for the Residency Waiver as a BA, in which case the AA becomes fairly expensive).

It used to be an associate's of any kind. Now in some parts of the state, you can get the job with just 60 credits even if you haven't matriculated - but in other areas, the requirement for a 2 year degree is still in place.

I definitely understand the distinction you're mentioning. I've been a lurker around here since 2013 so have seen a lot of different iterations of this conversation. I felt discouraged originally from pursuing an AA a few years back, but through my own research realized it's the safer option for ME in case I genuinely can't finish a BA (but hopefully that's not the case). My dissent isn't criticism - just another experienced voice in the mix for those who may be reading and not yet speaking.

[Life Long Learning]

That's why I always include the caveat about people for who the associate's has a definable value, or who have any doubt about finishing the bachelor's promptly. An associate's is definitely MUCH better than just a high school diploma.

20 Highest Paying Associate Degree Jobs in 2018
https://www.geteducated.com/careers/high...egree-jobs
 
Air Traffic Controller, Salary: $122,410
Radiation Therapist, Salary: $80,160
Nuclear Technician, Salary: $79,140
Radiologic & MRI Technologist, Salary: $58,960
Computer Programmer, Salary: $79,840
Nuclear Medicine Technologist, Salary: $74,350
Dental Hygienist, Salary: $72,910

I've heard through the grapevine by a friend who is an air traffic controller, that you will probably not get hired if you only have an AA.  She said it's a pretty rigorous screening process, it took MONTHS to get through it all, there's a lot of competition, and then after she got hired, she got sent to a very small airport out in podunk, middle of the country USA, and definitely does NOT get paid $122k.  She thinks she will make this in 5 years after she's moved several times to different, progressively larger airports.  Oh, and did I mention that you'll have to move all over the country, probably not to the area of your choice, several times?  So if you're married, hopefully your spouse is up for moving to middle of nowhere Kansas, and trying to find a gig there that pays the bills.  Let's not even mention the stress, and extremely high burnout rate.

Just to say that no, a BA is not a REQUIREMENT for some positions, but chances are high you won't get hired without one.  And that this is certainly not the starting salary for some of these positions.

I bet an AA with a few years as a USAF Air Traffic Control job experience is 10x than a just a BS.