The New SAT

[Alpha]

I don't know how big of a deal this is anymore but I guess they've made some changes.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/sat...-rcna13451

[ashkir]

Does any university that is important still require the SAT?

University of California are some of the most recognized schools on the planet and they don't require the SAT. ASU, University of Maine system, Baylor, Amherst, Indiana, Wesleyan, Harvard College, MIT, etc don't even take it anymore. Are they trying to hold onto their fame post-corruption and trying to make a comeback? I hope universities continue to ignore placement tests like SAT. It shows nothing of a student's capability and simply creates a harder barrier.

[withrown]

SAT and ACT are still important for traditional-age students for scholarships. Some awards are based purely on act/sat score. To be fair, even at the graduate level GRE, MAT, LSAT, etc will trigger scholarships if you score high enough.

[MNomadic]

I hope universities continue to ignore placement tests like SAT. It shows nothing of a student's capability and simply creates a harder barrier.

I wouldn't say it shows "nothing" of a student's capability. When I took it, it tested my math, reading, and writing skills in a timed, testing format. Those are skills that are essential for college and a large portion of my college studies were relevant to those skills. I definitely don't think that should be the only or even primary means of judging applicants but it is useful to get objective, quantitative data to compare candidates with. 

I think the most ideal way to judge candidates is the "earned admissions" approach with ASU and some of HES's programs, in which someone can take some open courses without being admitted and if their performance is acceptable, be admitted for a full program. Obviously, not all colleges have the resources to take such an approach yet but I do think it is the best way moving forward to use a student's performance in actual college courses to assess whether they're good candidates for the full degree.

[dfrecore]

I hope universities continue to ignore placement tests like SAT. It shows nothing of a student's capability and simply creates a harder barrier.

I wouldn't say it shows "nothing" of a student's capability. When I took it, it tested my math, reading, and writing skills in a timed, testing format. Those are skills that are essential for college and a large portion of my college studies were relevant to those skills. I definitely don't think that should be the only or even primary means of judging applicants but it is useful to get objective, quantitative data to compare candidates with. 

I think the most ideal way to judge candidates is the "earned admissions" approach with ASU and some of HES's programs, in which someone can take some open courses without being admitted and if their performance is acceptable, be admitted for a full program. Obviously, not all colleges have the resources to take such an approach yet but I do think it is the best way moving forward to use a student's performance in actual college courses to assess whether they're good candidates for the full degree.

Isn't this what CC is?  You show that you can do college-level work, and for a lower cost...and then you have a better chance of getting into some better 4yr schools after 1-2 years (30-60cr).

[MNomadic]

Isn't this what CC is?  You show that you can do college-level work, and for a lower cost...and then you have a better chance of getting into some better 4yr schools after 1-2 years (30-60cr).

Yes, but Universities also offer 1st and 2nd-year courses, so they still need some way to assess applicants who go straight from HS to Uni or adults learners returning to college after a large break. Also, HES has some open enrollment grad courses that can be taken for admissions to their grad programs, something that CCs don't generally have. 

I'm not saying we should limit admissions to any single method but to say one method(standardized testing of college-related knowledge/skills) is completely useless doesn't make sense to me. Of course, a large portion of the programs discussed and advocated for on this forum don't require standardized testing so it's a moot point for those programs. 

Of course, dismissing tests as being biased towards certain demographics doesn't really solve the problem of college accessibility either. Many of the types of students who are likely to score higher on SAT/ACT are also the same types of students who have access to more extracurriculars, AP courses, and other resources that economically/circumstantially disadvantaged students don't have access to.

[LevelUP]

SAT and ACT are still very important when it comes to scholarships.  Score high enough and a pile of money will be thrown at you opening the door for an option to attend an out-of-state school.
https://blog.prepscholar.com/guaranteed-...act-scores

Some schools will accept people based on ACT/SAT scores alone.  Grades are important for some schools as well. 

With that much money on the line, if they do online SATs, you open the door for people to cheat on the exam.

[MNomadic]

With that much money on the line, if they do online SATs, you open the door for people to cheat on the exam.

That door has always been open.

[LevelUP]

With that much money on the line, if they do online SATs, you open the door for people to cheat on the exam.

That door has always been open.

I'm talking about opening up the floodgates to cheating, not just a few like less than 1% today. 

Kind of like opening up the floodgates to voter fraud when there are mass mail-in ballots, print your own ballots, no signature check, no id check, and ballot harvesting is legal.

[PrettyFlyforaChiGuy]

Does any university that is important still require the SAT?

One thing most people don't realize is that, even if schools are test-optional, their U.S. News ranking would take a ding if a certain percentage of their admitted applicants hadn't submitted a standardized exam score. Before 2022, 75% of admitted applicants had to have submitted a score, or the part of their ranking that was based on exam scores incurred a 15% penalty. From the newest U.S. News 2022 ranking methodology:

"Schools now receive full credit on ACT/SAT scores when they reported on at least 50% of new entrants for fall 2020. In previous years, the threshold was 75%. This change was made to account for the growth of test-optional policies and the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on the fall 2020 admissions process for many schools.

If a school had less than 50% of entering students submit test scores, its SAT/ACT scores in the rankings were discounted by 15%. For the 2022 edition, only 4% of ranked schools reporting SAT/ACT data on their fall 2020 entering classes incurred this discount."

Basically, even now, top universities are still incentivized to have at least 50% of their admitted applicants submit exam scores, or else they'll get a ding. This is one reason why many academically capable students are still submitting scores; it can help them stand out from an admissions perspective and meet that artificial quota.

Now, none of this addresses the fact that SAT scores still correlate more closely with family income than college success. In fact, families with more resources are likely going to be aware of this trend and encourage their children take advantage of it. Almost all of my international students submit scores, and they aren't eligible for most forms of financial aid. Their holistic application is generally much more important, though.

But to go back to the original question, yep, many top programs are still welcoming standardized scores, with some clear exceptions that have chosen to throw off the yoke completely.