The New SAT

[dfrecore]

Does any university that is important still require the SAT?

One thing most people don't realize is that, even if schools are test-optional, their U.S. News ranking would take a ding if a certain percentage of their admitted applicants hadn't submitted a standardized exam score. Before 2022, 75% of admitted applicants had to have submitted a score, or the part of their ranking that was based on exam scores incurred a 15% penalty. From the newest U.S. News 2022 ranking methodology:

"Schools now receive full credit on ACT/SAT scores when they reported on at least 50% of new entrants for fall 2020. In previous years, the threshold was 75%. This change was made to account for the growth of test-optional policies and the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on the fall 2020 admissions process for many schools.

If a school had less than 50% of entering students submit test scores, its SAT/ACT scores in the rankings were discounted by 15%. For the 2022 edition, only 4% of ranked schools reporting SAT/ACT data on their fall 2020 entering classes incurred this discount."

Basically, even now, top universities are still incentivized to have at least 50% of their admitted applicants submit exam scores, or else they'll get a ding. This is one reason why many academically capable students are still submitting scores; it can help them stand out from an admissions perspective and meet that artificial quota.

Now, none of this addresses the fact that SAT scores still correlate more closely with family income than college success. In fact, families with more resources are likely going to be aware of this trend and encourage their children take advantage of it. Almost all of my international students submit scores, and they aren't eligible for most forms of financial aid. Their holistic application is generally much more important, though.

But to go back to the original question, yep, many top programs are still welcoming standardized scores, with some clear exceptions that have chosen to throw off the yoke completely.

US News rankings are a complete scam - and I think most people know.  You buy your way on.

[ROYISAGIRL]

The SAT and ACT both have other functions if the student is trying to join the military or is already enlisted and wants to commission. Most packages require one or the other.

[dfrecore]

The SAT and ACT both have other functions if  the student is trying to join the military or is already enlisted and wants to commission. Most packages require one or the other.

I am not certain this is true. If you're joining the military, you take the ASVAB.  If you want to commission after joining, you can do that with a degree.  In no case do you HAVE to take either exam.

[ROYISAGIRL]

I absolutely had to take the SAT to do an officer program package lol. It is one of the precepts for MECP and a few other programs.

Anytime I ever post its speaking from experience. Plus the job I do in the Military focuses on helping ppl put in officer packages, so I kinda do this everyday.

[dfrecore]

I absolutely had to take the SAT to do an officer program package lol. It is one of the precepts for MECP and a few other programs.

Anytime I ever post its speaking from experience. Plus the job I do in the Military focuses on helping ppl put in officer packages, so I kinda do this everyday.

Glad to hear you're an expert.  I've done lots of research and never heard this, so it sounded odd. Just met with recruiters with my son, none mentioned it at all.

[ROYISAGIRL]

I didn't say I was an expert l just explained that I do this all the time. Commissioning from enlisted to officer is more than just a degree. If your son was planning on coming in as an officer and the recruiter didn't say anything about SAT or ACT scores they did him a disservice since an application to OCS asks about your score and where to send it. If he's trying to go enlisted route then yes he doesn't need it.

[Alpha]

Does any university that is important still require the SAT?

One thing most people don't realize is that, even if schools are test-optional, their U.S. News ranking would take a ding if a certain percentage of their admitted applicants hadn't submitted a standardized exam score. Before 2022, 75% of admitted applicants had to have submitted a score, or the part of their ranking that was based on exam scores incurred a 15% penalty. From the newest U.S. News 2022 ranking methodology:

"Schools now receive full credit on ACT/SAT scores when they reported on at least 50% of new entrants for fall 2020. In previous years, the threshold was 75%. This change was made to account for the growth of test-optional policies and the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on the fall 2020 admissions process for many schools.

If a school had less than 50% of entering students submit test scores, its SAT/ACT scores in the rankings were discounted by 15%. For the 2022 edition, only 4% of ranked schools reporting SAT/ACT data on their fall 2020 entering classes incurred this discount."

Basically, even now, top universities are still incentivized to have at least 50% of their admitted applicants submit exam scores, or else they'll get a ding. This is one reason why many academically capable students are still submitting scores; it can help them stand out from an admissions perspective and meet that artificial quota.

Now, none of this addresses the fact that SAT scores still correlate more closely with family income than college success. In fact, families with more resources are likely going to be aware of this trend and encourage their children take advantage of it. Almost all of my international students submit scores, and they aren't eligible for most forms of financial aid. Their holistic application is generally much more important, though.

But to go back to the original question, yep, many top programs are still welcoming standardized scores, with some clear exceptions that have chosen to throw off the yoke completely.

US News rankings are a complete scam - and I think most people know.  You buy your way on.

I am not a big fan of the USNews college rankings, or any of the other ranking systems but I do not think they're a scam.  I think they measure certain parameters of the school(s) and interpret the data.  Does it actually indicate that one school is better than another?  Is the #99 school actually better than the #100 school?  I think we know the answer is not necessarily yes.  Is the #10 school better than the #100 school?  Probably, yes.  Does that make it a "scam?"  I'd say no.  Is there any evidence that schools "buy there way on?"  I'm not aware that this has happened.  Do you have any evidence? Or are you just being cynical?

[dfrecore]

US News rankings are a complete scam - and I think most people know.  You buy your way on.

I am not a big fan of the USNews college rankings, or any of the other ranking systems but I do not think they're a scam.  I think they measure certain parameters of the school(s) and interpret the data.  Does it actually indicate that one school is better than another?  Is the #99 school actually better than the #100 school?  I think we know the answer is not necessarily yes.  Is the #10 school better than the #100 school?  Probably, yes.  Does that make it a "scam?"  I'd say no.  Is there any evidence that schools "buy there way on?"  I'm not aware that this has happened.  Do you have any evidence? Or are you just being cynical?

There have been many articles on it being a scam - they made up SAT scores when they weren't given them, and have zero ability to verify the information given to them by schools (they don't have the authority to request scores from College Board, have never been given scores by College Board, and don't have any way to verify info they are given by schools); they base rankings on things that have nothing to do with the actual education you receive; the SF Chronicle did an expose to show how the methodology used is easily manipulated by both schools and the US News.

I could go on and on, but it's been shown to be a scam many, many times by all kinds of newspapers, colleges (Stanford was one), and reporters.

[PrettyFlyforaChiGuy]

I don't agree with the weight U.S. News places on different factors (devoting a full 20% of a ranking score toward peer assessment invites a lot of downplaying of same-tier institutions), but I would give their system credit for assessing things that are important to most college-bound students. The actual factors and a warmly welcomed critical analysis are shown here: https://collegerealitycheck.com/us-news-accurateness/

As for the scam accusations, struggling to see that, unless you mean something more metaphoric like "it's a scam that so many kids get bent out of shape over attending a Top ## school instead of finding the best fit for them." I'm only aware of a few cases that included inaccurate data: Bucknell, CMC, Temple's MBA, and GWU. GWU's fault was likely an honest mistake, but the other cases did help prompt U.S. News to require admin to sign off on the data. I do remember that the CMC admin who submitted the fraudulent data was canned, so at least they're addressing that issue by clearly pointing out whose head should be on the chopping block. I'm a counselor, and I still learned a lot more about their data sourcing here, including how they could cross-check data with things like Common Data Sets that I regularly show to stakeholders: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-co...kings-data

Their methodology is published along with the numbers on school's specific pages on their website, so you could theoretically plug in the values to arrive at a very WYSIWYG ranking. I still think way too much variability is going to be wrapped up in that hidden 20% peer assessment score though, which is another reason why I think it should be cut way down. Either way, the fact that their method is so transparent is what allows colleges to hyper-focus on stats to increase their ranking in ways like Northeastern did... but one could easily argue that the billions they invested to leapfrog from #162 to the Forties has actually positively impacted their students' outcomes. It's difficult to avoid incentivizing that type of behavior when families view aggregated ranks as more compelling narratives than best fit. That just loops the conversation back to which factors we should even be considering when trying to assess the most effective colleges for students.

[Alpha]

...With that much money on the line, if they do online SATs, you open the door for people to cheat on the exam.

Along similar lines, this is an article about cheating on college admissions exams in Japan.
https://mainichi.jp/english/articles/202...op/011000c