The Duggars and CollegePlus

[sanantone]

So, Sanantone... I have finally read through all of this thread and I think I understand your point of view. I am not going to argue that $3,000 is a reasonable fee for CP's services. But I do not think that is really relevant to the conversation. The market gets to decide what is a fair fee for their services.

I would just like to ask you a simple question. If the mission of all of us on this site is to build knowledge and awareness about college education options, specifically DE, and to help people save money, which it appears that you have admitted is something you enjoy doing, than would the fight for this cause be better or worse if CP did not exist?

If CP did not exist, many people that are ignorant to the options that are out there would never learn about them because they are not resourceful enough to find this site or other similar sites. One thing that I think has been discounted throughout this discussion is that what CP does is not without its overhead. They have a staff of people and they obviously spend a lot of money marketing the company in order to get their customers. Most of those customers are people that would likely have never learned about different DE options if not for CP.

So, because CP charges a fee that you find personally egregious, you slam them on a public forum??? This does not compute for me. Your motivation to help others is clear based upon the number of posts that you have contributed and the amount of time that you have been on this forum and I'm sure many other forums. I just think it is unfair to deride a company that is making a profit by providing information that we provide for free. How much money have you spent marketing your knowledge about distance education? Have you gone to homeschooling conventions and spent the time and money to teach others about what you know? If you had spent the time and money to do those things, would you not want to be compensated?

I applaud CP for what they have done and I am hugely jealous that I did not think of it first!

I think it works the other way around with a for-profit company. If you want to make a profit, you market. Non-profit companies solicit people for donations and governments for funding in order to keep their operations going.

I think they were started back in 03 or 04???? Which, btw, folks, was before this board existed and free help and info was readily available.

Degreeinfo.com was around back then and so was another online degree forum. I discovered 3 or more online degree forums that mentioned the Big 3 before I came across this one. Although not free, John Bear's books have been around for decades. His book sells for around $30 now.

[bmills072200]

I think it works the other way around with a for-profit company. If you want to make a profit, you market. Non-profit companies solicit people for donations and governments for funding in order to keep their operations going.



Degreeinfo.com was around back then and so was another online degree forum. I discovered 3 or more online degree forums that mentioned the Big 3 before I came across this one. Although not free, John Bear's books have been around for decades. His book sells for around $30 now.

You never answered my question on whether or not the cause for affordable DE would be better or worse off without CP... I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

[sanantone]

You never answered my question on whether or not the cause for affordable DE would be better or worse off without CP... I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Since it seems that most of the CP customers are straight out of high school, I've already expressed my view on younger people attending more traditional colleges than the Big 3.

[Cyrus]

So, Sanantone... I have finally read through all of this thread and I think I understand your point of view. I am not going to argue that $3,000 is a reasonable fee for CP's services. But I do not think that is really relevant to the conversation. The market gets to decide what is a fair fee for their services.

I would just like to ask you a simple question. If the mission of all of us on this site is to build knowledge and awareness about college education options, specifically DE, and to help people save money, which it appears that you have admitted is something you enjoy doing, than would the fight for this cause be better or worse if CP did not exist?

If CP did not exist, many people that are ignorant to the options that are out there would never learn about them because they are not resourceful enough to find this site or other similar sites. One thing that I think has been discounted throughout this discussion is that what CP does is not without its overhead. They have a staff of people and they obviously spend a lot of money marketing the company in order to get their customers. Most of those customers are people that would likely have never learned about different DE options if not for CP.

So, because CP charges a fee that you find personally egregious, you slam them on a public forum??? This does not compute for me. Your motivation to help others is clear based upon the number of posts that you have contributed and the amount of time that you have been on this forum and I'm sure many other forums. I just think it is unfair to deride a company that is making a profit by providing information that we provide for free. How much money have you spent marketing your knowledge about distance education? Have you gone to homeschooling conventions and spent the time and money to teach others about what you know? If you had spent the time and money to do those things, would you not want to be compensated?

I applaud CP for what they have done and I am hugely jealous that I did not think of it first!

Wonderful! You have gotten to all the issues faster than I. (Looks like I need to work on that...)

Sure, but at the same time though, you'd think that a dozen or so people out of thousands would be kind enough to say "STAY AWAY!!".

This, and the remark that you quoted of sanantone seems to insinuate that those who are college plus students are out of their minds, crazy, or unbelievably rich, stuck up pigs (or worse). All of these are offensive, and must be negated by clarifying what you and sanatone mean, and edit what you said, or please refrain from participating.
All the students that I know, do not fit in any of these categories.

[Cyrus]

Since it seems that most of the CP customers are straight out of high school, I've already expressed my view on younger people attending more traditional colleges than the Big 3.

Am I correct in recalling that you advised those straight out of high school to go to a traditional college? What then happens to all this "free" education that you speak of?

[Cyrus]

Since it seems that most of the CP customers are straight out of high school, I've already expressed my view on younger people attending more traditional colleges than the Big 3.

sanantone... couldn't help but notice that you evaded answering the question here. I too would like to hear your take on if this forum would statistically better or worse if College Plus had not come along?

[sanantone]

Wonderful! You have gotten to all the issues faster than I. (Looks like I need to work on that...)



This, and the remark that you quoted of sanantone seems to insinuate that those who are college plus students are out of their minds, crazy, or unbelievably rich, stuck up pigs (or worse). All of these are offensive, and must be negated by clarifying what you and sanatone mean, and edit what you said, or please refrain from participating.
All the students that I know, do not fit in any of these categories.

Everyone uses defense mechanisms.

Am I correct in recalling that you advised those straight out of high school to go to a traditional college? What then happens to all this "free" education that you speak of?

Did I ever mention free education? I said that CollegePlus charges for free information. The $3,000 could be put to better use by actually earning credits toward a degree. For students who qualify for a full Pell Grant award, it is possible for them to attend college for free or close to free. If you were a very good student in high school, there are merit scholarships. The most competitive colleges offer generous financial aid packages to students from middle class families and poorer. The threshold is pretty high. I think one college does full loan replacement for families that make up to $80,000.

sanantone... couldn't help but notice that you evaded answering the question here. I too would like to hear your take on if this forum would statistically better or worse if College Plus had not come along?

CP's impact is statistically insignificant considering that there are millions of college students. It's hard to take you seriously when it seems that you're the only person who can't seem to figure out how to view the forum for free.

[mrs.b]

sanantone... couldn't help but notice that you evaded answering the question here. I too would like to hear your take on if this forum would statistically better or worse if College Plus had not come along?

CP's impact is statistically insignificant considering that there are millions of college students. It's hard to take you seriously when it seems that you're the only person who can't seem to figure out how to view the forum for free.

It appears as if you two are circling one another again.

I read Cyrus' point (in this quoted statement and numerous other posts) as stating that College Plus is of value to the education-seeking community by providing a service to individuals or families that otherwise would not have found the free services DF offers, either due to lack of resources or lack of confidence to implement the advice without direct, hand-holding guidance which few on DF will do because we're individuals with our own things to do, not paid employees who are here to do exactly that. Cyrus seems to be following the Emily Dickinson school of thought; helping just one individual justifies any expenses charged so long as those individuals can afford the fees (and the marketplace dictates that decision for each consumer), if they achieve these goals faster or for less than they otherwise would by going the traditional, butt-in-seat, per-credit timeline and fee schedule of traditional schools. A rough number thrown out from many DF members is the ability to complete an entire four-year degree for less than $10,000 start to finish. Add the $3,000 fee charged by CP, bringing the total to $13,000. That is still less than the ~$40,000 many traditional students will pay for a Bachelors, start-to-finish. I've read Cyrus' argument rooted in that justification of the overall expense savings; yes, they will save $3,000 less than DF followers, but they will save money over going the route they would have gone because they did not feel comfortable following free DF advice on their own for their own reasons.

Sanantone seems to be (in this quoted statement and numerous other posts) saying College Plus' $3,000 fee is exclusionary to individuals and families with similar goals who may not have the funds to pay someone else. I read sanantone's statement as saying College Plus' contribution is unimportant because, out of the millions of college students, only a small fraction take advantage of cost- and time-saving CBE options, and of that number, a significantly smaller number do so because of College Plus' contribution. Therefore, the exclusionary fee schedule is harmful to the marketplace composed of the statistically insignificant portion of individuals who might actually be seeking a full-service degree planning service.


In short, you're both right depending on philosophy and approach, by my interpretation of what's been said many, many, many times throughout this thread. While the thread reminds me of Republican and Democratic efforts to reach a consensus on anything at all in Congress that might benefit the public, I thought I'd toss in that quick summary to help it along in an effort to avoid higher education sequestration.

[jenniferhc]

sanantone,

Are you a homeschooling parent? And if so, would you mind telling me how many children you have and how long you've been homeschooling them?

[mrs.b]

I'll go one step further and offer an analogy of this argument:

My husband and I take turns mowing the lawn. We each also have a budget of free funds to spend; bills get paid, then we each receive spending cash to do with as we please. My husband mows the lawn himself. I hate the task and pay a neighbor kid $20 to do it when it is my turn. No matter who is responsible on a given week, the grass gets mowed. In my husband's case, he has $20 to spend on other things. I choose to forfeit $20 to save myself the time and effort of a task I dislike; other people in the neighborhood that this same kid works for have disabilities and use his service because they are unable to do it on their own. In my case, I find my time is better-used for other things I would rather do (cleaning the house, working on our kiddo's homeschool lesson plan, buying groceries, etc). My husband finds my expenditure wasteful, but I find it valuable. I could do it on my own - sure - but I choose not to, for my own reasons.

Since I could technically accomplish the task on my own - I have no limiting disabilities to prevent me from doing it on my own, I choose to forfeit that money so I can use that time on other things - am I in the wrong for using those services? Is that kid immoral for charging me for something I could do for free? If he charged $75 and I was still willing to pay it, would he be wrong or would my willingness to pay dictate whether or not the choice was moral or immoral? Since my husband vehemently dislikes that I do it, does that change any of the above answers, even though the money I use comes from my slush fund and has no impact on him?

This, to me, seems to be a boiled down account of the entire arguments in this thread.