TESC Overhauling Gen Ed Reqs. Not enrolled, watch out!

[LaceyLady]

I am not surprised, as many colleges have been turning to these types of requirements (or already had similar requirements). Though it is somewhat surprising that TESC is making so many changes within a relatively short period of time. Thankfully, I will not be affected, as I am already enrolled and close to graduating (I should have applied for graduation before the new requirements take effect). But this is very important for anyone who has not enrolled yet and will most likely change the required courses/exams for them. I second the suggestion of making this thread a sticky. BTW thank you for bringing this to our attention and posting it Alex (cooperalex2004).

The concern, as others mentioned, is whether students will be able to test out of these new requirements. That is unclear at this point, as these requirements are quite vague. It seems some of these requirements might be hard to test out of, since there do not appear to be corresponding tests. This is my best assessment of these requirements at this point (requirements listed in black, my comments in blue):

1.) Intellectual and practical skills (15 credits) - can probably be tested out of

3 credits in composition (CLEP College Composition)
3 credits in writing intensive course work (CLEP College Composition? - not sure about the writing intensive course part)
3 credits in math (any math test)
6 credits in intellectual and practical skills electives (Communication, Computer, Statistics, etc.?)

2.) Human cultures and the physical and natural world through study in areas including the sciences and mathematics, social sciences, humanities, histories, languages and the arts (18 credits) - should be able to test out of (mostly includes the current standard GE areas)

3 credits in social sciences (any social science - history, psychology, sociology, economics, etc.)
3 credits in natural sciences (any natural science - biology, chemistry, physics, computer science, etc.)
3 credits in humanities (any humanities - literature, art, English, communication, religion, etc.)
9 credits in human cultures and the physical world electives (religion, geography, environment, cultural studies, etc.?)

3.) Personal and social responsibility (9 credits) - some may be tested out of, but may be slightly more difficult

3 credits in diversity/global literacy (cultural diversity, intercultural communication, gender studies, African/Asian/African American/World etc. ethnic studies/history/literature, etc.?)
3 credits in responsible and ethical leadership (ethics/leadership: leadership, Ethics in America, Business Ethics and Society, etc.?)
3 credits in personal and social responsibility elective (ethics: Ethics in America, Business Ethics and Society?)

4.) Integrative and applied learning synthesized across general and specialized disciplines. Courses in this category will be integrated throughout general education and capstone courses (18 credits). - ? - other than the capstone course, I'm not exactly sure what would be included in this requirement

I dislike these types of requirements as they tend to be more vague and harder to understand than the old requirements. I am familiar with requirements like these because the colleges/universities in my state that I was considering attending, and therefore researched, have similar requirements (and others more specific such as Cultural Diversity in the U.S., Global Awareness, Historical Studies with Asian/African/Native Am./Latin Am. Focus, Literacy and Critical Inquiry, etc.). Even though the requirements in these colleges/universities have been in place for years and are explained, they can still be quite vague and confusing.

I also, personally, dislike the fact that the new requirements reduce the math and natural sciences. I only see 3 credits of math, 3 credits of natural sciences, possibly 3 credits of statistics, and perhaps the possibility of some more (I'm not sure what is Integrative and applied learning). Most of the new requirement categories are social sciences or humanities, which are fine, but I think math and natural sciences are important, as well. I also personally dislike taking courses in some of the more subjective areas. Even though any viewpoint can be injected into any subject, it is very easy to inject a viewpoint in more subjective subjects and base courses and course content and materials on a certain viewpoint.

I hope my breakdown of the requirements helps (despite the length of this post and my criticisms of the new requirements:leaving.

[sanantone]

I agree with you on not being happy that the natural science requirements are being lowered. The new general education requirements do leave room for you to take as many natural sciences as before, but it's optional now. Honestly, the physical and life sciences aren't important to most liberal arts majors; but they could benefit from computer science, statistics, and mathematics courses. Even before the changes, you could get away with not taking a physical or life science. Psychology and sociology are two liberal arts fields (the federal government has labeled psychology STEM) that require statistics and the ability to use computer software to track and analyze data.

My BSBA evaluation has one change in it. Unless it's a mistake, they now only require college algebra or quantitative business analysis instead of precalculus or quantitative business analysis for business programs. It's easier for me since I don't like math, but I think it devalues the degree. I don't know much about quantitative business analysis, but I'm assuming it's more difficult than college algebra. AACSB-accredited MBA programs and probably many others require a higher math than college algebra as a prerequisite.

When I do a what-if for the BSBA in General Management from the old catalog, it still says that precalculus is required.

[LaceyLady]

It is true that more math/natural science can be added in addition to the requirements, as before, but since more of the G.E. are specifically prescribed, there is less flexibility to add courses, as well as the requirements for math/natural science being lower. Previously six credits of natural science/math (which can include statistics or computer) were required in addition to three credits of math and three credits of computer science. Even if someone did not take any physical or life science, they would have to take six courses of some kind of science or math. In the new requirements, only three credits in math and three credits in natural science are required, although computer and/or statistics might also be required for certain degrees.

Also, to add to my post above, I don't necessarily have a problem with requiring ethics and perhaps also diversity, to counteract unethical behavior such as cheating, plagiarism, etc. and ethnic/racial tension. But courses such as these can often be platforms for teaching a certain viewpoint and focus less on their noble purposes. And these requirements make it harder for us to test out and require us to take more courses, since there aren't any tests for courses like diversity.

[sanantone]

Statistics and a technology course can be taken to fulfill 6 credits in intellectual and practical skills electives. There is, of course, the 3-credit natural science requirement. 3 credits of math is required. There are 9 open credits that can be filled with humanities, science, or social science courses. If one really wanted to, he or she could take 21 credits in math or science. Maybe it was possible to take 30 mathematics/natural science credits before; I never knew what TESC quite meant when it said two subjects for the GE electives. But how many non-STEM majors actually take 30 math/science credits to fulfill general education requirements? I took the bare minimum of 12 credits.

There is an ECE for cultural diversity. There are CBE options for ethics. I only see one requirement that possibly does not have a CBE option and that's the 3 credits of personal and social responsibility electives. I have no idea what other courses cover that topic. I guess you could just take another ethics test. There is Ethics in America, Bioethics, and Business Ethics and Society. If that's the case, you can test out of all of the GE requirements as before.

It tells you right on the website that the writing intensive course is English Comp II. The Integrative and Applied Learning part isn't a specific course or specific set of courses.

Integrative and Applied Learning, including synthesis and advanced accomplishment across general and specialized studies (integrated throughout general education and capstone courses)

Institutional outcomes include Critical Analysis and Reasoning

This competency will be demonstrated across interdisciplinary general education courses as well as in the area of study and capstone courses.

It's just a desired learning outcome.

This is just speculation, but I bet there are other tests that can fulfill the diversity/global literacy requirement: Intro to World Religions, Western Civilization I and II, and Human/Cultural Geography. Maybe even the Western Europe DSST or World Conflicts ECE would suffice.

[LaceyLady]

Yes, I agree. As I said only six credits of math and natural science are required but more can be taken (in intellectual and practical skills electives, for instance, as you mentioned). I was commenting on the requirement being lower, but I agreed with you that someone can take more than the requirement. I still think the requirement is too low. But I also think that more, such as statistics and computers, would be added as requirements for certain degrees.

I did not know about the ECE in Cultural Diversity. That is very useful for these new requirements. I am glad you mentioned it. Yes, there are CBE options for ethics, I mentioned them in my earlier post. I also am not sure what would qualify as responsible and ethical leadership versus personal and social responsibility elective. Both sound like ethics to me. I am not sure of the difference between them or what would qualify as which. The first might be more leadership and the second ethics?

Yes, the writing intensive course is English Comp. II. I don't know if the CLEP exam would qualify, though. Some colleges do not accept CLEP College Comp for their English Comp requirement. I am just uncertain because of the "writing intensive course" part, but they may accept the CLEP as always.

There may indeed be other tests that could satisfy the diversity/global literacy requirement, such as the ones you mention. That would be good, but we don't know yet.

The requirements of colleges near me are not easily fulfilled by CBEs, but it most likely will be different in this case. These requirements are generally not as tight. But we just don't know enough about the requirements or the tests that can be taken to satisfy them, yet.

[ryoder]

USF had this kind of change years ago and they made it even more pervasive recently.
I had taken ANT1010 or something, intro to anthropology and that was considered good enough back in the 90s to satisfy the non-western perspectives requirement. When I reenrolled it no longer cut it and was relegated to an elective.
The Human Cultural Geography, no the other hand, satisfied the requirements and so did World Religions.
Western Civ will almost certainly not get you any points on the liberal exit requirements but the Modern Middle East might.

[NAP]

More information on new requirements effective July 1st:

Thomas Edison State College: General Education Electives

General Education Courses

These pages look new. I haven't had time to sort it all out but wanted to share what I found. No changes yet under Online Student Services/Academic Evaluation.

From the recent conversation, I'm not sure if everyone has seen these very important links. The second one gives good examples of the courses/exams that can be used for each category. Look through them very carefully.

It would be great to see them listed as just exam choices.

[IrishJohn]

This is just speculation, but I bet there are other tests that can fulfill the diversity/global literacy requirement: Intro to World Religions, Western Civilization I and II, and Human/Cultural Geography. Maybe even the Western Europe DSST or World Conflicts ECE would suffice.

If I had to guess I'd say that they would prefer a non-Western exam/course to fulfill "cultural diversity" like maybe DSST Introduction to the Modern Middle East rather than Western Civ I&II or the Western Europe DSST.

[sanantone]

I did not know about the ECE in Cultural Diversity. That is very useful for these new requirements. I am glad you mentioned it. Yes, there are CBE options for ethics, I mentioned them in my earlier post. I also am not sure what would qualify as responsible and ethical leadership versus personal and social responsibility elective. Both sound like ethics to me. I am not sure of the difference between them or what would qualify as which. The first might be more leadership and the second ethics?

I was a little confused on this, but I'm not anymore. Courses on ethics, diversity, and global literacy cover two of the topics in the personal and social responsibility category. The personal and social responsibility should be open to any other ethics, diversity, or global literacy course.

If I had to guess I'd say that they would prefer a non-Western exam/course to fulfill "cultural diversity" like maybe DSST Introduction to the Modern Middle East rather than Western Civ I&II or the Western Europe DSST.

This makes sense since we are a part of Western Civilization. It wouldn't make sense to count it as global literacy if you're trying to teach students about other cultures. We live in an increasingly global world, so it does not hurt to know more about people who do not live in North America or Europe. Most of elementary and secondary school is focused on Western Civilization. I even had a teacher who focused on nothing but Europe in a World Geography course. To him, it was the only important part of the world for Americans to study because of our "roots" ignoring that he had Hispanic students in his course who were of Native American descent and black students who were mostly of African descent. It was quite offensive and I wish I would have filed a complaint against him. Now, Texas is working to further reduce the teaching of contributions of Hispanics and African Americans in U.S. and Texas history. I barely remember learning anything about Hispanic contributions in school and we only focused on blacks for about a week during Black History Month.

[sanantone]

From the recent conversation, I'm not sure if everyone has seen these very important links. The second one gives good examples of the courses/exams that can be used for each category. Look through them very carefully.

It would be great to see them listed as just exam choices.

Duh! I knew someone posted links to appropriate courses. Yep, it most certainly looks like people can still easily test out of all of the requirements. Intro to Sociology is even considered diversity/global literacy.