Online Juris Doctor

[bjcheung77]

Here's a link to the programme. You have to choose standard entry, which is a 3 year course. LLB and Diploma in Law | University of London International Programmes

Wow, that's pretty impressive if it can be done, and so much cheaper as well. I was curious, are there no tuition fees in the UK? All I see from that webpage are fees for other things. No wonder it can be had for $5 grand.

[bjcheung77]

There is one more option for this, if you're not worried about the academic qualification of JD. You can take the University of London External Programme LLB - you can self study this and it'll cost less than $5k, though it'll be hard work. I know there are some colleges also specialising in teaching for the LLB. Then study a masters degree at any ABA approved university in the US. Then you'll not only be eligible to take the bar in CA and get exemption from the baby bar but you'll also be eligible in NY. Not sure if this option is available in any other states.

That's is like hitting two birds with one stone. Get a degree cheap and skip the baby bar, and ability to work in other states.

[Leedeedee]

Wow, that's pretty impressive if it can be done, and so much cheaper as well. I was curious, are there no tuition fees in the UK? All I see from that webpage are fees for other things. No wonder it can be had for $5 grand.

There are usually huge tuition fees in the UK. However The University of London International Programme (used to be External Programme) has always been uber cheap. It's a Victorian philanthropic venture that was mainly designed for those living in remote places around the Empire and who wouldn't have access to universities, as well as the working class people in Britain who had no chance of affording university education. It's absolutely open to all, but you're on your own teaching wise. They give you the guidance of the syllabus and then you turn up for the exam. You have to put the time in studying various books, without further guidance or clues as to what will come up on the exam. There are no tutors to consult, hence no tuition fees. It's tough to pass but if you're one of those really motivated organised people it's awesome. Most people in the UK don't seem to know about it, it's very popular in Asia though. I only know about it because my mother took a degree with them in the 1960s.

[Leedeedee]

That's is like hitting two birds with one stone. Get a degree cheap and skip the baby bar, and ability to work in other states.

Of course, it's also a first degree in the UK, so if anyone fancies taking a law degree and doesn't have one already or only has an associates degree then they can skip that step. Entry requirements for USA are High school Graduate + 30 credits or Associates Degree.

Actually if there are people who fancy this but can't study on their own, and need teaching and guidance, there is a US based distance learning college that is an official UofL partner for the LLB. It costs about $6k per year for 3 years but it could still work out cheaper for some?http://www.legaltutors.com/homepage.htm

However you absolutely do not need to go through a college like this, you can just take the exams directly with the University of London.

[GMT]

If you're planning on staying in CA, you don't even have to go to law school to sit for the bar! I think we are one of the only states with this, and I heard of a girl a few years ago who couldn't afford to go to law school, so studied for and passed the bar exam without ever setting foot in a law school. It's not easy, but it certainly is cheap!! And it take a full 4 years to do it. You can't shortcut it.

How to Pass the California State Bar Exam Without Law School

I came across this a few weeks ago and it's mentioned in this article Tag: Bar Exam prep | Like Lincoln
Perfect for those living in California
Shame I'm not in California as I'd look at this more in depth ... I'm not even Stateside

There is one more option for this, if you're not worried about the academic qualification of JD. You can take the University of London External Programme LLB - you can self study this and it'll cost less than $5k, though it'll be hard work. I know there are some colleges also specialising in teaching for the LLB. Then study a masters degree at any ABA approved university in the US. Then you'll not only be eligible to take the bar in CA and get exemption from the baby bar but you'll also be eligible in NY. Not sure if this option is available in any other states.

I looked into the UofL external programme quite indepth. Including Dr. Pappas and his supporting programme.
It's wonderful for those who desire an LL.B from a well known U.K. school.
Like Leedeedee has said though, you will require an ABA masters to be able to sit for any USA bar exam.
Therefore add at least a year to your studies and the extra cost.
The UofL programme is still an online degree and treated as such, so don't expect plain sailing when trying to find an ABA masters or when taking the bar.

Choose the state you want to take your bar exam in first, and then work backwards when making your plan.
New York (and a lot of other states) can be a bit off with online law degrees, so you may have to attend a B&M ABA school for the masters.
Things are changing though, and maybe one day this "no online law degree" rule will be lifted across the USA

If you really want an LL.B from a British school, UofL isn't your only option, lots of U.K. universities offer online law degrees. It's becoming quite the norm.
The price however seems rise each year.

Of course, it's also a first degree in the UK, so if anyone fancies taking a law degree and doesn't have one already or only has an associates degree then they can skip that step. Entry requirements for USA are High school Graduate + 30 credits or Associates Degree.

Yes, in the U.K. a law degree is an undergraduate degree.
To become a lawyer in the U.K. however, takes a couple more years of study on top of the LL.B along with the added expense.
And if you wish to become a Barrister, add a couple of hoops of fire ....

However .... if you can ace an University of London online LL.B it's worth looking at an online J.D.
Sure if you're not Stateside you'll need to jump on a plane and take a day-long exam during/after your first year to see if your dream fits with your capabilities, but if you pass you're on the right track ... and you get a holiday.

Keep going for another 3 years and take the main bar exam. Pass that and you'll be a fully qualified lawyer.
Sure it's for California, but if you're in the USA throw an ABA masters on top of that and more bar exam doors will open.

If you're not in the USA and International Law is of interest, this is a fun idea.

For military spouses like myself, who can be in a different country every couple of years, online is the only way, and International Law is what comes of those lemons

If Law is your "thing", and like me prefer to do all your own legal activities and not employ lawyers, then applying the law isn't such a scary option for exams.
Past exam papers and answers are available, just scroll down and you'll find those for the First Year Law Student Exam (Baby Bar) too Past Exams

I shall look into the online J.D. further as the international possibilities after qualifying are very exciting

[jsd]

Sure it's for California, but if you're in the USA throw an ABA masters on top of that and more bar exam doors will open.

Can you link to more information about this? I haven't heard of any loophole that lets you sit for a bar exam this way. I'm also surprised to learn any ABA school would accept you for a masters without an ABA JD or at least a foreign equivalent

[jsd]

In fact, the ABA's official position contradicts this entirely:

Post-J.D. & Non-J.D. | Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar

The Council of the Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar has adopted a statement that no post-J.D. or other degree program is a substitute for the J.D. and should not be considered the equivalent of the J.D. for bar admission purposes.

Do you know which states' State Bars go against this position?

[GMT]

Can you link to more information about this? I haven't heard of any loophole that lets you sit for a bar exam this way. I'm also surprised to learn any ABA school would accept you for a masters without an ABA JD or at least a foreign equivalent

Here's a page from the cheapest online J.D. school in California which I could find, Northwestern California University
Frequently Asked Questions And Answers To Them | Northwestern California University School of Law

Scroll down to question 12 "Is Northwestern California University accredited? If not, will I be eligible for Bar membership in any state other than California?"

"Northwestern California University graduates have so far been admitted as lawyers in Washington D.C., the states of Alaska, California, Florida, Iowa, Massachusetts, Michigan and Washington, and in the U.S. Territory of Puerto Rico (Federal)."

"One or more states have had rules that allowed bar eligibility to our graduates, if they possess a JD law degree from our school and an LLM degree from an ABA approved school, with no special requirement related to prior bar membership in California or anywhere, and no requirement involving prior active practice as a lawyer. However, these rules have been changing significantly, and since eligibility requirements are relatively comprehensive and can change extensively anytime, you are urged to make inquiries to determine all pertinent details related to gaining bar eligibility in the state or states where you wish to practice law."

"Officials at St. Thomas University School of Law in Miami, Florida and at Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego, California (both ABA approved law schools) have confirmed that they will accept graduates of our JD program in their schools' LLM programs. Certain other ABA law schools with LLM programs may also accept our JD degree graduates as LLM students. Their catalogs usually indicate that they require, as a prerequisite to enrollment, the prior conferment of a Juris Doctor degree from an ABA approved law school. In reality though, these schools will occasionally accept graduates of schools that are not ABA approved, and in doing so, apply a relaxed standard that looks at the "complete picture" of an applicant's background and experience."

"The California Bar once compiled a list of ABA approved law schools that may accept California correspondence law school graduates for advanced graduate degrees. The schools named on the list were as follows:

University of Alabama (Tuscaloosa, Alabama)
Capital University (Columbus, Ohio)
Case Western Reserve University (Cleveland, Ohio)
University of Illinois (Champaign, Illinois)
John Marshall (Chicago, Illinois)
Lewis & Clark College (Portland, Oregon)
Northwestern University (Chicago, Illinois)
St. Louis University (St. Louis, Missouri)
Temple University (Philadelphia, Pennsylvania)
University of Texas at Austin (Austin, Texas)
University of Utah (Salt Lake City, Utah)
Wayne State University (Detroit, Michigan)

St.Thomas University School of Law in Miami, Florida and Thomas Jefferson School of Law in San Diego, California should now be added to the list. The Thomas Jefferson School of Law LL.M. program, incidentally, can be completed entirely online."

When you say foreign equivalent ... please bear in mind that many countries including the U.K. have an equivalent which is an undergraduate. A lot of U.K. law degrees are now available online too

In fact, the ABA's official position contradicts this entirely:

Post-J.D. & Non-J.D. | Section of Legal Education and Admissions to the Bar


Do you know which states' State Bars go against this position?

The rules are made by the Bar Association of each state, I would start looking at each of them
Of course, I'm sure you'll still find most will have a bias towards ABA J.D. degrees etc, but certainly not all.
There are a few schools dotted around the US which are not ABA approved, even though they are B&M.

You seem surprised there are "loopholes" to gaining a law degree online and taking the bar exam in another state.

Every one of us on this forum is a trailblazer in our own right. Sooner or later we will find "opportunity within the grey area".
That's what this whole forum is based on.
Then we pass that information on for someone else to step forward with

And at the end of the day, that's all a law degree is ... a piece of paper which says you can apply and bend the rules to suit in a convincing way.

Maybe you've considered doing law yourself, but someone, somewhere, at sometime has said you can't.
I'm saying ignore their negativity ... if you REALLY want to become a lawyer there is an opportunity.
You don't need a Harvard law degree to be a great lawyer and sooner or later no one will care where you studied

Forget the crappy statistics, there are always people who still pass .... the only statistic which matters, is yours

[jsd]

You seem surprised there are "loopholes" to gaining a law degree online and taking the bar exam in another state.

I'm not surprised, I just haven't heard of any, hence me asking for more information. I'm not really connived that this is as realistic as NCW is claiming, either.

Northwestern California University states there were "one or more" that have allowed this in the past, won't name those states, and admit that things have changed. If this "one or more" still exists, you also have to take the risk that these state bars won't align themselves with the ABA's position over the next four years, if you can even find out which states these are and if they're the states you actually want to practice in.

I'd be shocked if you find anything outside of CA, possibly Oregon or Vermont -- and that's just a guess based on what I know about those state bars, where you'll have a realistic path (unless you plan on practicing in CA as an active attorney for 5-7 years or so first).

Maybe you've considered doing law yourself, but someone, somewhere, at sometime has said you can't.

No thanks. I'm already familiar enough with that world to know I'm not interested.

I'm saying ignore their negativity ... if you REALLY want to become a lawyer there is an opportunity.
You don't need a Harvard law degree to be a great lawyer and sooner or later no one will care where you studied

I'm not sure you understand the culture of law practice, and you really might want to look in to this before spending the time with one of these programs. It's going to be a tough wakeup call if you wait until after you earn the degree. While no one is claiming you need to go to Harvard, the day where your law degree doesn't matter is decades off in the law world.

If you're set on doing it, do it. But I really don't think you understand what you're getting into.

Forget the crappy statistics, there are always people who still pass .... the only statistic which matters, is yours

If you had nothing to lose by doing this, sure. But you're ignoring the opportunity cost. The stats are incredibly important to make an informed decision.

Best of luck to you, I do wish you well. Looks like you've made your decision. I hope you let us know how it goes along the way, and like I said previously, I sincerely hope you get to prove me wrong.

[dfrecore]

I would think that it was entirely dependent upon what you actually wanted to DO with your law degree, as to whether or not it mattered where and how you got it.

For instance, if you want to go an alternate route to get a degree, but then try to get into a large law firm to become a partner, you are probably NOT going to be happy. On the other hand, if you want to go into practice for yourself, or work with some sort of firm that tries to get innocent people released from prison, or do something else with the degree, having a degree but no debt to go with it might open up some doors for you because you don't have to earn $80k a year just to pay off your loans.

So I would take a look at your goals and then work back from there.

http://law.scu.edu/careers/career-pathwa...r-lawyers/