Obama's plans for College Tuition

[Gary]

Hi,

I agree previous generations did fine without degrees and I believe they were better educated. For example my grandfather- God rest his soul- ( who to this day remains the smartest man I ever met) only graduated from 6th grade.

After that he had to quit to help support the family.
Later he was drafted and fought in a war, he provided for his family by working in various factory jobs. Interestingly, I do not recall a time growing up where I did not see him reading a book.

Unfortunately, the days of getting a good job with a just a HS diploma are past or are passing quickly. When I graduated HS ( 25 years ago ) you only needed an associates degree, now minimum you need a BA degree and more and more the ads are saying Masters degree needed to apply. Also back then there was employer & employee loyalty, most likely you worked for one employer then you retired.

Also a few generations back you could survive on one income, now a days you need two incomes to survive.

Interesting to me how we are more educated but are finding it harder to make ends meet. Maybe this is why people are turning to the government for help with education. It is kinda a catch 22, you need a degree to get a good job but how do you get a job to pay for the degree, unless you can get a good job ( which requires a degree).

Since having a degree has become a requirement, if there is to be a future workforce to meet that requirement, then someone has to figure out a way for people to afford getting a degree. I am less concerned with this for the poor as there are programs in place. I am more concerned about the middle class, which is already maxed out just trying to pay for a home, insurance, groceries, etc.


I am all for going back to making a degree not a requirement for getting a good job, but it doesn't seem that will happen anytime soon. Perhaps we could shift from getting a degree, to more of an on the job training model.

Peace123

I was done posting until I saw this. While I am concerned for the poor because it's the right thing to do and if left to their own, I believe trouble is brewing in America, I also think the middle class is getting screwed. Production in this country has been at or nearest it's highest level, yet incomes have not kept pace w/this. I'm talking about middle class (and poor's) wages. More proof that the trickle down theory is just that. It's drips and drabs compared to what the managers and exceutives are being paid. So much attention is paid to the poor when it's the rich and well to do that slowly squeezing the lifeblood out of the middle class. Their throwing out the misdirection play, don't buy into it, ignore it. They are slowly stealing our dreams. Laugh if you want, it's been happening under our noses. Jobs are being eliminated or moved overseas and H-1B visas are being used to take over American jobs. We have many qualified graduates right here in this country but it is cheaper to hire the H-1B. If you watch the specials on TV OR do research, you will see that many of these so called high tech jobs are a farce. They are entry level positions. The middle class is definitely being eliminated, there should be no mistaking that. We all could go on and on. I know I'm beating a dead horse. My knuckles may be swollen, but I feel a little better. I concur w/your observations Peace 1,2,3

[Professor_Adam]

There was an interesting link on AJU's web site today stating that the high cost of tuition is a direct result of government intervention. It seems to support what a few people suggested earlier in this thread. Granted it was written by a consultant but his points seem pretty valid.

Increased college grant and loan levels lead to higher tuition

[bobaloo000]

It's about time someone is giving hope to the unfortunate! The community service thing is a good idea. Everyone should be entitled to college if they so choose. They don't have to take it from taxpayers at the lower end. Take it from the corrupt CEO's who are grossly overpaid and underperforming. I don't know about you all but in my way of thinking, financial and corporate America have stolen enough dreams!

Gary, your from NJ so did you know in NJ if you finish in the top 15% of your HS class you can attend County College for FREE! And, if you finish in the top 15% of your CC class you can go to any state university for FREE! With no community service required. This program actually will mean the end of that. Why would NJ pay for it if the federal government will do it for them?

One more thing. Until recently it was the top 20%. Our wonderful Governor just knocked it down to 15% hurting the kids in inner city schools the most. You know the one, he made himself 500 million dollars at Goldman Sachs, is a big supporter of Obama, and keeps using his money to buy himself new things, like senate seats and the governorship.

Oh, there are also states like Georgia where if you are a high achiever in high school you can skip county/community college and attend state universities for free. Say goodbye to those programs as well.

[bobaloo000]

I was done posting until I saw this. While I am concerned for the poor because it's the right thing to do and if left to their own, I believe trouble is brewing in America, I also think the middle class is getting screwed. Production in this country has been at or nearest it's highest level, yet incomes have not kept pace w/this. I'm talking about middle class (and poor's) wages. More proof that the trickle down theory is just that. It's drips and drabs compared to what the managers and exceutives are being paid. So much attention is paid to the poor when it's the rich and well to do that slowly squeezing the lifeblood out of the middle class. Their throwing out the misdirection play, don't buy into it, ignore it. They are slowly stealing our dreams. Laugh if you want, it's been happening under our noses. Jobs are being eliminated or moved overseas and H-1B visas are being used to take over American jobs. We have many qualified graduates right here in this country but it is cheaper to hire the H-1B. If you watch the specials on TV OR do research, you will see that many of these so called high tech jobs are a farce. They are entry level positions. The middle class is definitely being eliminated, there should be no mistaking that. We all could go on and on. I know I'm beating a dead horse. My knuckles may be swollen, but I feel a little better. I concur w/your observations Peace 1,2,3

Gary, if your theories are right why did it take WW2 to bail out the failed policies of the tyrant known as FDR? Oh and how come it was Reagan’s policies, even followed by Clinton that led to the greatest economic boom of all time?

Time will tell, but my kids are going to have it a lot harder than I did. I came of age during the Reagan years, my father was unemployed because of Jimmy Carter yet I managed to be successful and raise a family, buy a house. Why? I worked hard and stayed out of debt. In a little under 4 years my house will be paid off and I won't even be 50. Why? Because I lived within my means and took responsibility for my life. Nothing is free, someone has to pay for it and once they are done soaking the so called rich, who do you think they are going to come after next?

[sbdolphino]

For such a young man Farmboy, you are already seeing the big picture. Congratulations to your parents. Today's society has the "If it's free it's for me" mentality. That is a big party of what got Obama elected. I will never forget the black lady in Orlando that said she wasn't going to have to worry about paying for anything because Obama was going to pay it all for her. He is paying for it with working peoples money. I am paying for me and my wife to go back to school. I know exaclty how much costs are sky rocketting, but the Government cannot continue to spend money they do not have and that is not their's in the first place. I don't know what the answer is and I do wish anyone that wanted to, could go to college but like Farmboy said, college is not in the Constitution or Bill of Rights. I am 41 and just now finishing up because when I got out of High School ,my parents couldn't afford it and I didn't want to work for it at the time. I joined the Marine Corps and learned a trade, while defending my country. The government needs to get out of the businesss of handing out other peoples money, especially to those to lazy to work for it themselves!!!!!!!


I didn't want to touch this thread because I remember how heated it got back before the election but sometimes I digress.

Doug

AMEN!!!!

taxes are going to be riduclulous over the next four years... or longer

[Gary]

Gary, your from NJ so did you know in NJ if you finish in the top 15% of your HS class you can attend County College for FREE! And, if you finish in the top 15% of your CC class you can go to any state university for FREE! With no community service required. This program actually will mean the end of that. Why would NJ pay for it if the federal government will do it for them?

One more thing. Until recently it was the top 20%. Our wonderful Governor just knocked it down to 15% hurting the kids in inner city schools the most. You know the one, he made himself 500 million dollars at Goldman Sachs, is a big supporter of Obama, and keeps using his money to buy himself new things, like senate seats and the governorship.

Oh, there are also states like Georgia where if you are a high achiever in high school you can skip county/community college and attend state universities for free. Say goodbye to those programs as well.

I was not aware of the 15% deal, my kids aren't old enough for HS yet so my answer is no. If you think I support Gov Corzine, think again. The first thing he did before he started cutting everything was he gave the judges what ammounted to a 17% pay raise. You bring up Carter and Clinton as if you think I'm a Democrat, which I'm not. We can throw story back and forth about all the good and bad each has done. Were you aware Reagan sold California property to a close friend, and then as governor, pushed to give that same friend a big tax break on that same property. I'm sure your aware he cut gov't just enough to put the fear in everyone, to make sure he could impose his will. There are thousands of stories of people dragging themselves up by their bootstraps out of the gutter and making something of themselves. Your story is nothing new. You did it so the next guy should be able to do it. Your probably white, right? Figured. I like you live w/in my means. I've worked hard for everything I've got, like millions of others. You make it seem like a minority has the SAME chance and opportunity, you are blind if you think that. I can't tell you the number of times I've been told by people in the military and in my civilian jobs how blacks are lazy and don't want to work. Quite a few years back, my best friend, who was responsible for hiring/firing at his plant , out of the blue said, "I'll never hire a n-----." I had no idea he felt that way. I've since heard in many times over. Don't tell me it doesn't exist, if you think that, your living in a shell. People love to say live w/in your means and I agree w/that. Everyone wants to focus on people who took on mortgages, more than they could handle. What responsibility do the banks have that approved these loans, loans they knew would lead to problems for many of these families. My wife worked for banks, she worked in both direct and indirect lending and she was constantly pushed to approve questionable loans, not by the people looking for them but by the industry that would profit by them. When bank mergers were happening, the outcome was the screwing of the poor. Now banks req'd accounts to hold a certain amount of money, don't maintain it, fees. Fees for this, fees for that. People questioned where these mergers were leading to and the banks wanted you to believe it was in the country's interest. Look where we are at now. Once again, the poor were hit hard but I will agree, the middle class is getting whacked too. I own a townhome and our taxes are over $5,000.00 a year so I know what people are saying. The Asbury Park Press has a website that gives salaries and pensions of all state and municipal employees. If your not on the winning end, it should knock your socks off because you are paying for it. But I'm getting away from myself. I have been where you've been, I've done the same walk. It steered me back into the military. I'm blind in one eye from a screwdriver accident when I was 5, trust me, searching for a job w/this disability was difficult, especially when I've been involved in physical labor. If anything, I don't look at it the way you do. I realize the chips are stacked against many poor and minorities. If you've ever been to unemployment, I have been, you'll realize how much you are on your own, ESPECIALLY if your lacking skills. There's something more I want to say, but it is better left unsaid. I will add this again, it's not the poor who are draining us, look at the pensions and salaries. Look at the pensions and salaries!!!!!!!!!! You are obviously a conservative, therefore, what I said means nothing to you. It doesn't register. Your taxes are paying for these extravagences yet the easy way to view it is blame it on the poor. What cracks me up and I stated this on another forum is w/all this knowledge, all this education in this country, we have degrees in this and that, and it's the poor that are doing it to us. Yeah, right. They are sitting home (remember, they are lazy to begin with) plotting ways to keep them down. They are one step ahead (or is that behind) us. Confusing???? Not to me!

[zula]

If I am middle class and struggling to make ends meet, wouldn't that mean that I'm living beyond my means? Whats wrong with living in a apartment. Then most people that can't pay their mortgages wouldn't have to struggle anymore and can afford their necessities. I think that when they first started doing these loans their were jobs but then the economy went sour after 2000 and people lost their jobs they weren't able to pay. It just happened to be the lower class people that lost their jobs first. Now the middle class is/are losing jobs and they are going through the same thing and it looks like they were living beyond their means too. Soo only the rich were doing the right thing buying and living in houses.

[zula]

These are statistic from the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics and U.S. Department of Commerce, Census Bureau.Of full-time workers, black women's median weekly earnings ($429) were only 64% of the earnings of white men ($669) in the year 2000.
In one year, the average black woman earns approximately $12,000 less than the average white man does. Over a 35-year career, this adds up to $420,000!
Among full-time, year-round workers, black women with Bachelors' degrees make only $1,545 more per year than white males who have only completed high school.
Black women account for 30% of all female-headed families in the U.S. They have a median income of $18,244 annually, while families headed by white males (no wife present) have a median income of $39,240.

hispanic statistics are worse:
According to the Census Bureau, in 2000, the median full-time earnings for Hispanic women were $20,527 only 52% of the median earnings of white men ($37,339).
In one year, the average Hispanic woman working full-time earns $17,837 less than the average white man does. Over a 30-year career, that adds up to $510,000!
The median income of a female Hispanic householder ($20,765) is only 46% of the incomes of single white male householders ($44,988). (Note: Income is more inclusive than earnings.)
Hispanic women with a high school diploma earn $22,469. That is 33% less than white men with the same level of education.

So that explains why some minorities are on welfare.

[dc67]

This thread has moved so far beyond Obama and his plans for education. I have very strong feelings about all of this but I will keep my conservative, white feelings to myself.

[HawkGuy]

This thread has moved so far beyond Obama and his plans for education. I have very strong feelings about all of this but I will keep my conservative, white feelings to myself.

Yep. Me too.