Obama's plans for College Tuition

[HawkGuy]

Gary, could you maybe through in a couple spaces in your posts. One long block of letters makes my eyes hurt

[creationstory]

Now Farmerboy..... No Thanks, I don't want the church issuing me allowance. I don't mean to poke fun at you either but do they have...........black people in Idaho? I don't think you are racist, just confused/misinformed. While I can agree with you there are definitely problems in the inner cities and the problems you mentioned do exist, why do they exist? They have not been given fair treatment................please, quiet down, quiet down. For a few moments, try to put yourself in their shoes. Just going to work or school is a threat. They DO NOT in many cases have the same opportunity as whites. I'm sure this will rile some, so be it, the truth hurts. In Philadelphia, many African Americans were wrongly arrested and imprisoned and this happened numerous times.

I can understand Farmerboys point of view. I believe it is based on the fact of his limited exposure to the black community as a whole. The vast number of blacks live in urban area's as well as the deep south. Which is not where he is from. He simply hasn't been exposed to many blacks. It's just what he knows....

[cdautel]

Hi there,

This is the first time I have posted anything, but I just wanted to bring up the point that many of the people in previous generations didn't receive college degrees (let alone some not even finishing high school), but were very hard workers and ended up succeeding in whatever they chose to pursue (and they didn't ask for the government to help, either!). As someone in this thread brought up, education is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights, and I think too many people today expect the government to take care of them.

Also, politics aside, I want to thank all of those on InstantCert who have served our country to make it the free land that we have been blessed to live in. Let us pray that it will remain so!

[Farmerboy]

I just put the car in reverse for a moment........there. First, creationstory, thanks for the hug Bro! Now Farmerboy, I respect people who believe the Messiah will come again. What I find hard to believe is how blinded by religion people have become. You stated individuals and churches should be the ones to lend a helping hand ON THEIR OWN INITIATIVE. Sounds like "trickle down theory" to me. You know, the trust us speech. You think African Americans should fall for that. Not only that, not to disrespect religion (their leaders have done a fine job themselves), but how can you really expect the populace to trust an organization that has had rampant, that is correct, rampant, sexual abuse going on for decades and they chose to hide it rather than tackle it head on. No Thanks, I don't want the church issuing me allowance. I don't mean to poke fun at you either but do they have...........black people in Idaho? I don't think you are racist, just confused/misinformed. While I can agree with you there are definitely problems in the inner cities and the problems you mentioned do exist, why do they exist? They have not been given fair treatment................please, quiet down, quiet down. For a few moments, try to put yourself in their shoes. Just going to work or school is a threat. They DO NOT in many cases have the same opportunity as whites. I'm sure this will rile some, so be it, the truth hurts. In Philadelphia, many African Americans were wrongly arrested and imprisoned and this happened numerous times. Some were disowned by their own families thinking their kids/relatives were guilty. It was found out later that the police admitted wrongdoing in arresting them and the city paid a huge settlement. This isn't about the money, it's about respecting humans. There is a disrespect going on to a class of citizens that isn't being acknowledged. We search for bogus answers but it's simple. We are protective of our jobs, our cultures, our way of life as we are accustomed to. That for one dictates how many will treat others. You want to say drug dealing is a way of life in the inner city, that might be right but as I said in a previous post, if it wasn't for people outside the city buying drugs, in many cases, "professional types", maybe there wouldn't be the market that there is. We help perpetuate it. Honestly, if you listened to yourself, you'd see how warped your ideas are. I don't have a problem with your religion, it's the baggage. You can call me Democrat (which I'm not), liberal (which I am to a point) or any bunch of names but bigot and racist, No Way!

I have done some extensive research and a lot of people agree with me. Even Bill Cosby has stated pretty much the same thing.

Here is what somebody else on this forum private messaged me.

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"I just wanted to give you my personal feelings. First of all I don't think you're misinformed. I have worked among black people for many years. Your insights are actually correct. Many people don't want to talk about this though because it's "touchy." And when you talk about the black community's issues with absentee fathers it requires that someone be held accountable. All of a sudden government knee-jerk legislation doesn't solve the problem and no one knows how to answer it because they aren't grounded in God's word. No one wants to talk about faith-based solutions because then all of a sudden their views on homosexuality and abortion are exposed as wrong. The black community has problems that are unfortunately their own doing. Their community lacks good strong Christian leaders who demand accountability. That particular culture would rather play the blame game and hold resentment toward white people than take the time to look in the mirror.
As an aside, I see a great amount of racism in my line of work but I can't say it's whites, it's blacks who hate white people. No one wants to talk about this either. However, it's a problem and it's not going away. Oh, but that type of racism is "okay" right. This is why I can't stand liberals. Their positions are hypocritical and shortsided. Affirmative Action, diversity scholarships and the like are just another form of racism in God's eyes. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just my two cents there."

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I am not pointing fingers at the black community but I think that if we don't radically change our direction we will end up with the same results and ultimately less freedom.

[peppamint]

I’m sure I’ll get plenty of disagreement, but I believe the overarching theme of Obama’s education plan is not to give things away for free, but to make higher education more appealing to the masses. One need only turn to some of this “reality tv”, for one shining example, to see that currently, the appeal is not there. People in the academic field whose job it is to prepare young people for higher education realize this. So, coupled with a severely damaged public school system in many places (which “the masses” attend) is a perceived (if not necessarily real) notion that college will be too expensive with each passing year. So the attitude becomes “what’s the point?”, and the manifestation of that is found on the Maury Povich show and elsewhere. Every student is not a super duper Farmerboy. And every parent is not one of these wonderful home-schooling parents on this board. You all get your kudos and such for being motivated, assertive and educated enough to achieve these accomplishments.

My roommate is a teacher in a public school system - yeah, down in the trenches -- and from what he tells me it’s unbelievably bad. These teachers are having a hard enough time actually teaching around discipline issues that they really can’t stop. (It's gone waayyy beyond just talking in class.) And on top of it all they pretty much have to sell the idea of proper education to these kids and their parents. (Oh the parents ! ) It might not be right, but it is the reality. Houston, we definitely have a problem. When I was in (public) high school – a little more than a decade ago, I didn’t have to be sold on education – it was an expectation set before me. But things are very different now.

When I hear about what goes on in high schools now, I am truly amazed. I want to be a ____ when I grow up. HA! That’s an ancient sentiment nowadays in many public school systems. A lot of kids don't have any motivation; they don't know what to be motivated about. Said all that to say umm… there’s got to be a solution or we’re all going to heck if uneducated people keep getting “processed” into the real world and the solution needs to be from all angles – forward (from the school systems) and backward. So don’t hate on Obama’s plan because there needs to be a plan to make education appealing again.

[creationstory]

Lincoln was a Republican who was not so much for blacks as he was for keeping the union together.

I fail to see what FDR or JFK did for black people.

I will give credit to LBJ however.

And, by liberals helping blacks I'm not sure how we define that. In what way? Increasing welfare? Promoting reverse racism through Affirmative Action policies, thereby INCREASING resentment and racism from whites? I'm not sure the blacks have been served well by either party to be quite frank.

Lincoln was in fact a republican and was not pro black. He was though an abolitionist. It was under his watch that slavery was abolished. As a result the vast majority of blacks became republican. You'll see that the majority of black congressman at the time were republican

Hiram Rhodes Revels - republican
Joseph Rainey - republican
Blanche K. Bruce - republican
Richard H. Cain - republican
Henry P. Cheatham - republican
Robert C. DeLarge - republican
Thomas E. Miller - republican
George H. White - republican
the list is huge .. . Origins of the CBC > 19th Century Black Congressman Biographies

etc.

The Compromise of 1877 was essentially the start of the republican abandonment of the blacks in the south. "Under the compromise, Democrats conceded the election to Hayes and promised to acknowledge the political rights of blacks; Republicans agreed to no longer intervene in southern affairs and promised to appropriate a portion of federal monies toward southern projects" African Americans in the United States Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FDR, mainly thru his wife Eleanor, maintained blacks in his administration thru the formation of the "black cabinent" Black Cabinet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . This allowed blacks to be represented in the federal government.


JFK - Civil Rights Act of 1964 (although he died 1963 it was started during his administration), his promise to end racial discrimination, executive order 11063 ending housing discrimination (John F. Kennedy )

[creationstory]

I’m sure I’ll get plenty of disagreement, but I believe the overarching theme of Obama’s education plan is not to give things away for free, but to make higher education more appealing to the masses. One need only turn to some of this “reality tv”, for one shining example, to see that currently, the appeal is not there. People in the academic field whose job it is to prepare young people for higher education realize this. So, coupled with a severely damaged public school system in many places (which “the masses” attend) is a perceived (if not necessarily real) notion that college will be too expensive with each passing year. So the attitude becomes “what’s the point?”, and the manifestation of that is found on the Maury Povich show and elsewhere. Every student is not a super duper Farmerboy. And every parent is not one of these wonderful home-schooling parents on this board. You all get your kudos and such for being motivated, assertive and educated enough to achieve these accomplishments.

My roommate is a teacher in a public school system - yeah, down in the trenches -- and from what he tells me it’s unbelievably bad. These teachers are having a hard enough time actually teaching around discipline issues that they really can’t stop. (It's gone waayyy beyond just talking in class.) And on top of it all they pretty much have to sell the idea of proper education to these kids and their parents. (Oh the parents ! ) It might not be right, but it is the reality. Houston, we definitely have a problem. When I was in (public) high school – a little more than a decade ago, I didn’t have to be sold on education – it was an expectation set before me. But things are very different now.

When I hear about what goes on in high schools now, I am truly amazed. I want to be a ____ when I grow up. HA! That’s an ancient sentiment nowadays in many public school systems. A lot of kids don't have any motivation; they don't know what to be motivated about. Said all that to say umm… there’s got to be a solution or we’re all going to heck if uneducated people keep getting “processed” into the real world and the solution needs to be from all angles – forward (from the school systems) and backward. So don’t hate on Obama’s plan because there needs to be a plan to make education appealing again.

honestly blame the parents. opporunities exist in the world. there are enough programs for people who want to make it in the world. if anything they can always pursue vocational education in america. that is what i believe should also be emphasized.

[creationstory]

I have done some extensive research and a lot of people agree with me. Even Bill Cosby has stated pretty much the same thing.

Here is what somebody else on this forum private messaged me.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I just wanted to give you my personal feelings. First of all I don't think you're misinformed. I have worked among black people for many years. Your insights are actually correct. Many people don't want to talk about this though because it's "touchy." And when you talk about the black community's issues with absentee fathers it requires that someone be held accountable. All of a sudden government knee-jerk legislation doesn't solve the problem and no one knows how to answer it because they aren't grounded in God's word. No one wants to talk about faith-based solutions because then all of a sudden their views on homosexuality and abortion are exposed as wrong. The black community has problems that are unfortunately their own doing. Their community lacks good strong Christian leaders who demand accountability. That particular culture would rather play the blame game and hold resentment toward white people than take the time to look in the mirror.
As an aside, I see a great amount of racism in my line of work but I can't say it's whites, it's blacks who hate white people. No one wants to talk about this either. However, it's a problem and it's not going away. Oh, but that type of racism is "okay" right. This is why I can't stand liberals. Their positions are hypocritical and shortsided. Affirmative Action, diversity scholarships and the like are just another form of racism in God's eyes. Two wrongs don't make a right. Just my two cents there."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am not pointing fingers at the black community but I think that if we don't radically change our direction we will end up with the same results and ultimately less freedom.

Bill Cosby is a prime example of upper class black. Upper Class and Middle Class blacks are the majority of blacks. Lower Class blacks the one you are speaking of is about 1/3 of all blacks. They are the ones though who are the most vocal. The ones who speak about discrimination and so forth.


You can't say its the lack of church values becuase the majority of blacks are very very into the church. Go to any inner city and the amount of blacks you will see who are involved in the church are extremely high. Go to the South and you'll see a large number of blacks involved in the church.


Affirmative action was simply a band aid program to fix past inequalities. The way to actually fix it is to fix problems from the early education in the POORER communities.

[creationstory]

Regardless,
What accounts for the severe disparity in cultural goals in our country? How can we ensure minorities and the "economically challenged" have equal opportunities to attend college despite the cost of tuition?

If "diversity scholarships" aren't the answer (they harbor quite a bit of resentment among whites) then what is the answer? Should all tuition simply be "needs" based, regardless of race? What if this caused enrollment for minorities to drop precipitously? Then how do we answer that?

i say go need based. there are enough historically black colleges and universities that can pick up the slack for lacking of enrollment in non historically black colleges.

[peace123]

Hi there,

This is the first time I have posted anything, but I just wanted to bring up the point that many of the people in previous generations didn't receive college degrees (let alone some not even finishing high school), but were very hard workers and ended up succeeding in whatever they chose to pursue (and they didn't ask for the government to help, either!). As someone in this thread brought up, education is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights, and I think too many people today expect the government to take care of them.

Also, politics aside, I want to thank all of those on InstantCert who have served our country to make it the free land that we have been blessed to live in. Let us pray that it will remain so!

Hi,

I agree previous generations did fine without degrees and I believe they were better educated. For example my grandfather- God rest his soul- ( who to this day remains the smartest man I ever met) only graduated from 6th grade.

After that he had to quit to help support the family.
Later he was drafted and fought in a war, he provided for his family by working in various factory jobs. Interestingly, I do not recall a time growing up where I did not see him reading a book.

Unfortunately, the days of getting a good job with a just a HS diploma are past or are passing quickly. When I graduated HS ( 25 years ago ) you only needed an associates degree, now minimum you need a BA degree and more and more the ads are saying Masters degree needed to apply. Also back then there was employer & employee loyalty, most likely you worked for one employer then you retired.

Also a few generations back you could survive on one income, now a days you need two incomes to survive.

Interesting to me how we are more educated but are finding it harder to make ends meet. Maybe this is why people are turning to the government for help with education. It is kinda a catch 22, you need a degree to get a good job but how do you get a job to pay for the degree, unless you can get a good job ( which requires a degree).

Since having a degree has become a requirement, if there is to be a future workforce to meet that requirement, then someone has to figure out a way for people to afford getting a degree. I am less concerned with this for the poor as there are programs in place. I am more concerned about the middle class, which is already maxed out just trying to pay for a home, insurance, groceries, etc.


I am all for going back to making a degree not a requirement for getting a good job, but it doesn't seem that will happen anytime soon. Perhaps we could shift from getting a degree, to more of an on the job training model.

Peace123