New guy looking for feedback on TESU History BA

[person8612]

Hi all, I'll try to keep this succinct. I've been looking over the material on this forum and the wiki over the past few days and believe I'm in a position to obtain a History BA from Thomas Edison State University relatively cheaply and in a quick timeframe. I have previously attended college, but dropped out on account of mental health issues and a withdrawal of financial aid (caused by said mental health issues). I have tentatively decided on a History major as opposed to a conventionally easier degree like Liberal Studies or Business Administration on account of the fact that I have a natural fascination towards history and already know much of the material as a result.

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First, my background. At Institution A, I passed the following courses:

• Fundamentals of Chemistry I 1030
  
• Fundamentals of Chemistry I Lab 1031
  
• World History II 1020
  
• Precalculus Algebra and Trigonometry 1150
  
• Introduction to Ethics 1020
  
• Introduction to Industrial & Systems Engineering 1110
  
• Geography of Asia 3160
  
• Music and Science 2750
  

Additionally, Institution A accepted the following AP Exams:

• AP English Language and Composition (accepted as English Composition I 1100 and English Composition II 1120)
  
• AP US History (accepted as Survey of US History to 1877 2010 and Survey of US History Since 1877 2020, however the latter is listed as a 0-credit hour class)
  
• AP American Government (accepted as American Government in a Multicultural World 1090)
  
• AP Environmental Science (accepted as Core Science 2000 Transfer Equivalent)
  

In addition to those, I believe I also passed the AP English Language and Literature despite it not being included, but I'm uncertain.

After a point, I dropped out of Institution A and attended a local community college, which I'll call Institution B, at which I passed the following courses:

• Art Appreciation 100
  
• Blueprint Reading for Manufacturing 104
  
• Western Civilization I 101
  
• General Psychology 200
  

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In regards to financial aid (and specifically the Pell Grant) I believe I meet the requirements overall. However, the Pell Grant has a "satisfactory academic progress" requirement, which effectively means any student must maintain a 2.0 GPA in order to continue qualifying for it.

In addition to the previously-mentioned classes, I also failed several classes at both institutions (on account of previously mentioned mental health issues). With credit hour weighting, my overall GPA is 1.91. Non-weighted (and excluding Chemistry Lab), it is 1.89. However, when I transferred to Institution B, they did not transfer any GPA information from Institution A. My GPA at Institute B is 2.00, and so my stated overall GPA (including transfer) on my latest transcript is 2.00. This is important, because if I were to resume classes at Institution B, I would qualify for the Pell Grant, because Institution B is who would determine my eligibility, and as far as they're concerned, I am eligible on account of having a 2.0 GPA per their records.

As far I'm aware, there are three possibilities:

• TESU looks at my transcripts and calculates an accurate overall GPA to be ~1.9. Pell Grant denied.
  
• TESU looks at the most recent stated overall GPA and determines it is 2.0. Pell Grant granted.
  
• TESU does not consider GPA from prior institutions. I base this off the sentence "Transfer credits count toward the student's current program and grade level only, not academic progress." from the TESU 2019-2020 Financial Aid Handbook (page 7). Pell Grant granted.
  

Does anyone have thoughts on this? Given the relatively specific language in the handbook, I'm assuming it's the last option, but I'd like another opinion. Just to stress the importance of whether I receive financial aid: with it I think I'm looking at paying roughly $1000 out-of-pocket for my BA. Without it, that number is closer to $7,000.

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So with all that prior information out of the way, the following is my current plan that I'm looking for feedback on. Special shoutouts to Mysonx3's and Sanantone's History BA wiki pages for helping with this.

WHAT I ALREADY HAVE CREDIT FOR IN GENERAL EDUCATION:

• Written Communication: AP English Language and Composition
  
• Quantitative Literacy: Precalculus Algebra and Trigonometry 1150
  
• Information Literacy: Blueprint Reading for Manufacturing 104
  
• Ethics: Introduction to Ethics 1020
  
• Civic Engagement: AP American Government
  
• Knowledge of Human Cultures (3/12):
  

1. General Psychology 200
   

• Understanding the Physical and Natural World (4/4):
  

1. Fundamentals of Chemistry I 1030 (counted as a 3-credit class)
   
2. Fundamentals of Chemistry I Lab 1031 (counted as a 1-credit class)
   

• General Education Electives (12/18?):
  

1. Geography of Asia 3160
   
2. Introduction to Industrial and Systems Engineering 1110
   
3. Music and Science 2750
   
4. Art Appreciation 100
   

WHAT I STILL NEED CREDIT FOR IN GENERAL EDUCATION (PLEASE SUGGEST ALTERATIONS):

• Oral Communication: Study.com Communications 120: Presentation Skills in the Workplace (accepted as COM-290: Presentational Speaking)
  
• Diversity: DSST Introduction to Geography (accepted as GOG-100: Introduction to Geography)
  
• Knowledge of Human Cultures (9/12):
  

1. Saylor POLSC201: Intro to Western Political Thought (accepted as POS-299)
   
2. CLEP Social Sciences and History (accepted as SOS-101 Social Sciences & History I and SOS-102 Social Sciences & History II)
   

• General Education Electives (6/18?)
  

1. Study.com Religion 101: Intro to World Religions (accepted as REL-277: Intro to World Religions)
   
2. CLEP Introductory Sociology (accepted as SOC-101 Introduction to Sociology)
   

WHAT I ALREADY HAVE CREDIT FOR IN HISTORY AREA OF STUDY:

• Western Civilization I: Western Civilization I 101
  
• American History I: AP US History
  
• American History II: AP US History
  
• Non-Western/Non-US History: World History II
  

WHAT I STILL NEED CREDIT FOR IN HISTORY AREA OF STUDY (PLEASE SUGGEST ALTERATIONS):

• Historical Methods/Historiography: seemingly unavailable via testing, although hypothetically transferable via ACE; HIS-379: Historical Methods
  
• Western Civilization II: Study.com History 102: Western Civilization II (accepted as HIS-102: Western Civilization II)
  
• History Electives (12/12):
  

1. DSST History of the Soviet Union (accepted as HIS-386 Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union)
   
2. DSST A History of the Vietnam War (accepted as HIS-246 A History of the Vietnam War, however this seemingly conflicts with Study.com History 308: Causes and Effects of the Vietnam War being accepted as HIS-351: A History of Vietnam War. Does TESU have both a HIS-246 and a HIS-351 History of the Vietnam War?)
   
3. Study.com History 306: The American Civil War Era (accepted as HIS-450: The American Civil War Era)
   
4. Study.com History 311: The Holocaust & World War II (accepted as HIS-354: The Holocaust I)
   

• Liberal Arts Capstone: TESU-specific LIB-495 Liberal Arts Capstone
  

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CALCULATIONS:

• $600: Three months of Study.com (for five exams)
  
• $255: Three DSST exams
  
• $25: Saylor exam
  
• $178: Two CLEP exams
  
• $20: A month of InstantCert
  
• $100: Various other study resources
  
• $50: TESU Application
  
• $12: Institution A transcript
  
• $5: Institution B transcript
  
• $25: AP Archived Scores Request Form
  
• $38 ACT Report Fee
  
• $10 High School transcript
  
• $2800: Credit Hour Residency Waiver Fee
  
• -$2800: Assumed Pell Grant coverage of Credit Hour Residency Waiver Fee
  
• $298: Graduation Fee
  
• $-298: Assumed Pell Grant coverage of Graduation Fee
  
• $3054: 6 credit-hours per credit out-of-state tuition
  
• -$3054: Assumed Pell Grant coverage of tuition
  

_________________

• $1318 ($7470 without Pell Grant)
  

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Outstanding questions:

• TESU states the credit distribution for Understanding the Physical and Natural World to be "4-7" and for General Education electives to be "17-20". What does this imply exactly? I'm assuming the 4 number for the former to be Chemistry + Lab, but the latter puzzles me a bit. I would be fine with six 3-credit hour classes, right?
  
• Do I have UL requirements figured out correctly? My current ones would be HIS-379, HIS-386, HIS-351, HIS-354, HIS-450, and LIB-495.
  
• Am I missing any important costs? I get that taxes and hidden fees and transportation costs are a thing, but am I missing anything obvious?
  
• Would you specifically not-recommend a History BA from TESU? Other prospective options would be TESU's BAs in Religion and Liberal Studies.
  
• Any general cost-reducing tips? I'm not on a shoestring budget, but I obviously don't want to spend extra money for no reason.
  
  

Thank you all!

[mysonx3]

Glad you found my history plan on the wiki and that it was helpful to you! A few notes:

1. World History II won't count for non-Western history, but the Soviet Union DSST will, so you've still got that covered.

2. Historical Methods doesn't have any ACE options that I'm aware of. Personally, I took it at TESU, though I'm aware of others taking it via American Military University or Fort Hays State University.

3. You currently only have 15 upper level credits planned for your area of study, so you should replace the Vietnam War DSST (which is lower level) with something that is upper level.

4. Yes, TESU has both HIS-246 and HIS-351 Vietnam War classes. I have both on my transcript, actually.

5. If you're aiming for speed, consider replacing one or more of your Study.com history classes with a Coopersmith one, which won't require paper writing.

6. The number of gen-ed electives varies based on how many credits you have in the Natural World section. If you only have 4 there (i.e. from Chemistry + Lab), you'll need 20 GenEd elective credits, whereas if you had 6 (e.g. Chemistry I without lab + Biology I without lab) you'd need 18 GenEd elective credits.

7. You can't transfer in a course for the Information Literacy requirement. As of this year, you have to take SOS-110 from TESU for this.

8. Tuition at TESU is a cheaper than you have calculated if you use the Study.com discount, though I forget the exact number (I believe it's gone up a bit since I enrolled)

8. Pell Grant won't cover the Residency Waiver or Graduation Fee. In my experience, it doesn't quite cover full tuition at TESU, so you'll need to plan on paying a couple hundred dollars of tuition out of pocket.

9. I am finishing up a History degree at TESU in about a month, and there haven't been any issues with it. It's a bit more expensive than the Liberal Studies degree, but quite a bit cheaper than the Religion degree.

10. You can reduce your Study.com costs by taking more than two exams in a month. Additional exams cost $70 each, and you can take up to five total (if I'm not mistaken)

11. Feel free to PM me if you need help or want to chat about the History program.

[person8612]

1/2. Thanks, good to know.


3/4. How odd, thanks for the heads up. Do you have any recommendations for one to replace it?

5. Thanks for the suggestion, but speed isn't essential, and I'm usually pretty good at writing papers.

6. That makes a lot of sense, but in regards to needing 20 Gen Ed credits instead of 18 ...

7. So I have to take SOS-110, which means that my Blueprint Reading for Manufacturing 104 is no longer used. This would potentially fulfill the extra 2 GenEd credits, right?

8a. It looks to currently be 5% off the in-state rate (currently $379 per credit). 

8b. Are you quite sure? I would understand the residency waiver not being covered by what the DoE calls "fees normally assessed", but surely the graduation fee would, right? Also, if I only have to take 9 credit-hours of classes (SOS-110, LIB-495, and HIS-379), that would be well-under the $6,095 award I would expect to qualify for. EDIT: Actually, I just remembered the residency waiver doesn't apply if I were to take 16 total credit-hours there. I've historically not done well with online classes, but are there any 7 easy additional credits that I could take and end up having it covered by financial aid (my Pell Grant qualification is the maximum $6095; 16 credits * $379 = $6064).

10. Right, but I suspect paying the extra $60 to double the time I have for at least the third and fourth exams would be worth the money.

11. Thanks, but I wouldn't want to deprive others looking for resources on this!

[natshar]

8b. Are you quite sure? I would understand the residency waiver not being covered by what the DoE calls "fees normally assessed", but surely the graduation fee would, right? Also, if I only have to take 9 credit-hours of classes (SOS-110, LIB-495, and HIS-379), that would be well-under the $6,095 award I would expect to qualify for.

This may be the case. But you have to remember the pell grant is based on the number of credits you take. They probably will not give you the full 6,095 award if you aren't taking a full load. With only 9 credits the money you get probably won't even cover the entire 9 credits.

One way which would probably best most cost-effective would be to take 16 credits in one term. Under this pricing it would cost 4,928 for out of state, so you would get over $1,000 refund check. You get the full 6,095 because you were taking a full load. Also, you would not have to pay the 2,800 residency waiver. The downside of course to this the fact that you would have to take 16 credits at TESU at once. That is a lot to handle and also there is that pesky one credit (medical term, pla, or jane austen). You can take e-pack or guided study which are more self-paced but TECEPs don't count towards the 16 credits residency. This is the best value option but it depends on your life if it is best for you.

Here is what I would do if I were you:

I would apply to TESU ASAP and send everything so you can an exact place to see where everything fits.

Do presentation skills from study.com, the free sophia credits, and free ethics course. If you had a free day you could easily finish all of these in day or less. Also, I highly recommend CSM course as math or gen ed elective or free elective.

Since you said you know a lot about history maybe consider doing cleps (or dsst) for western civ II, etc. If there are subjects you know a lot about consider trying a clep. Find your local test center and get their policy on when, where and how to sign up, etc so you know what to do if or when you decide to do one.

Also I don't know if the geography dsst exists anymore.

[dfrecore]

So, there's is a lot to look at here, and I have zero to contribute on financial aid. However, here is some additional info:

1) Introduction to Industrial & Systems Engineering 1110 and Blueprint Reading for Manufacturing 104 may not count in GE, those might be free electives
2) TESU relies on ACE-recommendation for your AP exams, so you can't go by what your previous institutions gave you. You need to list the years you took them, and the score you got.
3) DSST - Intro to Geography (formerly Human/Cultural Geography, updated 7/30/18) still exists
4) Study.com - Presentation Skills no longer counts for the Oral Comm requirement
5) Study.com - double check on the Civil War course counting as UL before you take it, they recently made a couple of changes, although there are other courses you can take instead

Also, TESU looks at all of your schools and either computes each school's GPA separately, or does their own GPA combined. They do not go look at what school B says about school A, they look at them directly. So you can't spend any time thinking that because school a did it one way or school b did it another, than TESU will do it the same. TESU will do it their own way.

Last, I would seriously consider COSC for the BA in Liberal Arts with a concentration in History. They require 36cr in the major (TESU requires 33cr), but they are much more lenient on what they will take. They require US History I & II, Western Civ I & II, and 2 Non-western History courses (and I think they consider Vietnam War one of those). Then the rest are electives.

They are also much less expensive than TESU, so the financial aid will go much further even if you don't take a full load.

EDIT: Forgot to mention ModernStates.org to CLEP-prep, and then they will give you a free voucher for CLEP exams, and reimburse you for test center fees. Don't forget to look at OnlineDegree.com as well, the courses are free and then the credit is $9 for proctored exams.

And also, I think COSC goes by the ACE recommendations for AP exams just like TESU does.

[natshar]

3) DSST - Intro to Geography (formerly Human/Cultural Geography, updated 7/30/18) still exists

Ah. That's it, it changed names. I knew it was something.


Also regarding gpa you didn't post that the exact grades but tesu requires a C or above for the major. If you got a C- or D in a history course you can still get credit for it,  it it would be in free or gen ed electives and not your aos.

[allvia]

The Pell Grant won't help you as much as you think.  Pell Grants are based on your status part-time vs full-time (based on number of credits; ig - 6 is half,  12 is full), and it is always divided. A max Pell Grant of $6195 would be split $3097 in the Fall / $3097 in the Spring for a Full-Time schedule. Here is a site that explains it well in simple terms - https://eligibility.com/pell-grants

I share this not to discourage you, but to inform you in advance - so you can plan appropriately.

[natshar]

The Pell Grant won't help you as much as you think.  Pell Grants are based on your status part-time vs full-time (based on number of credits; ig - 6 is half,  12 is full), and it is always divided. A max Pell Grant of $6195 would be split $3097 in the Fall / $3097 in the Spring for a Full-Time schedule. Here is a site that explains it well in simple terms - https://eligibility.com/pell-grants

I share this not to discourage you, but to inform you in advance - so you can plan appropriately.

True. I forgot about dividing it. And I should have known considering I get it myself.

So at 3097 tesus flat rate would be about 2,000 out of pocket. 

This option is still cheaper  than doing cap+cornerstone+residency fee.

[person8612]

First, thanks all.

Do presentation skills from study.com, the free sophia credits, and free ethics course.

By the free ethics course I'm assuming you mean "312N-H Ethics and the CPCU Code of Professional Conduct". If so, I hadn't realized that actually counts as 3 credits. For the Sophia ones though, those are 2 credits total, right? I'm not sure how that would help in my current plan.

2) TESU relies on ACE-recommendation for your AP exams, so you can't go by what your previous institutions gave you.  You need to list the years you took them, and the score you got.

I unfortunately don't have those yet since the knuckleheads at the College Board only send archived scores through the physical mail and take "up to 15 business days".

4) Study.com - Presentation Skills no longer counts for the Oral Comm requirement
5) Study.com - double check on the Civil War course counting as UL before you take it, they recently made a couple of changes, although there are other courses you can take instead

Any recommended substitutions?

Last, I would seriously consider COSC for the BA in Liberal Arts with a concentration in History.  They require 36cr in the major (TESU requires 33cr), but they are much more lenient on what they will take.  They require US History I & II, Western Civ I & II, and 2 Non-western History courses (and I think they consider Vietnam War one of those).  Then the rest are electives.

They are also much less expensive than TESU, so the financial aid will go much further even if you don't take a full load.

Thanks for the tip, I'll make a mock plan and post it shortly for critique.

EDIT: Forgot to mention ModernStates.org to CLEP-prep, and then they will give you a free voucher for CLEP exams, and reimburse you for test center fees.  Don't forget to look at OnlineDegree.com as well, the courses are free and then the credit is $9 for proctored exams.

I, too, had forgotten about ModernStates, thanks.

The Pell Grant won't help you as much as you think.  Pell Grants are based on your status part-time vs full-time (based on number of credits; ig - 6 is half,  12 is full), and it is always divided. A max Pell Grant of $6195 would be split $3097 in the Fall / $3097 in the Spring for a Full-Time schedule. Here is a site that explains it well in simple terms - https://eligibility.com/pell-grants

I share this not to discourage you, but to inform you in advance - so you can plan appropriately.

I had completely forgotten that it works like that, thanks. However, you quote 6 as being half-time and 12 as being full-time, which is correct for most institutions, but TESU states they are under Pell Formula 3, and that the "Pell Grant will be one quarter of the maximum full-time award per term" as a result. They then say: "For example, if the maximum award is $4,050, the actual award will be $1,012 per semester if 6-12 credits per term are taken." I may be misunderstanding this, but since my yearly maximum award is $6095, my award if I took anywhere from 6 to 12 credits would be $2032, right? 6 credits * $379 per credit = $2274, for a difference of $242 per term out of pocket. Am I understanding all of this right?

[allvia]

The Pell Grant won't help you as much as you think.  Pell Grants are based on your status part-time vs full-time (based on number of credits; ig - 6 is half,  12 is full), and it is always divided. A max Pell Grant of $6195 would be split $3097 in the Fall / $3097 in the Spring for a Full-Time schedule. Here is a site that explains it well in simple terms - https://eligibility.com/pell-grants

I share this not to discourage you, but to inform you in advance - so you can plan appropriately.

I had completely forgotten that it works like that, thanks. However, you quote 6 as being half-time and 12 as being full-time, which is correct for most institutions, but TESU states they are under Pell Formula 3, and that the "Pell Grant will be one quarter of the maximum full-time award per term" as a result. They then say: "For example, if the maximum award is $4,050, the actual award will be $1,012 per semester if 6-12 credits per term are taken." I may be misunderstanding this, but since my yearly maximum award is $6095, my award if I took anywhere from 6 to 12 credits would be $2032, right? 6 credits * $379 per credit = $2274, for a difference of $242 per term out of pocket. Am I understanding all of this right?

I would clarify with them, but I believe it is because they start terms monthly. TESU offers multiple terms within a traditional semester; this is good because it means you would not be required to take all 12 credits in a single term to be FT - just within the semester; meaning you could start with 6 credits in Jan, and start another 6 in March and still be FT with 12 for the spring semester.