Mike Rowe on Working Smarter, Not Harder

[sanantone]

I was looking at Mike Rowe's website for trade school scholarships (the deadline is in March btw), and he repeatedly mentions how he disagrees with the advice of "work smarter, not harder." He thinks that it's led to people going tens of thousands of dollars in debt just to end up in unrelated jobs. So, he advocates for working smarter and harder. If you're not familiar with him, he's the Dirty Jobs guy who has earned millions in entertainment after graduating with a degree in communications.

If you went $50k in debt to earn a history degree and ended up making $15 per hour as a customer service representative, did you really work smarter? Now, if you partially tested out of a history degree for less than $10k and used the Pell Grant to take college courses, then I'd say that you worked smarter. If you went $20k into debt to finish a trade program at a for-profit school, then I'd say you didn't work smarter, but you might work harder.

I wonder if someone could outsmart Mike Rowe's scholarship foundation and get them to pay for a correspondence trade program at Penn Foster or Ashworth.

https://www.mikeroweworks.org/scholarship/

[Jenniferinfl]

Mike Rowe ticks me off on a regular basis. My husband is a welder. Sure, you can make a decent wage after you've been in it for YEARS, but, only until a robot takes over or your plant closes down. My husband paid $20k for his welding training to make $12 an hour to start. There are tons of people around here who go to welding school, but, companies only want people with experience, so the same 40 welders with experience keep shuffling around to the same jobs and the ones who went to welding school but didn't manage to get experience work at Walmart.

I wish more people would speak up about how work in the trades really is. Where I'm at, certified welders with experience start at $12 an hour. Now, my husband lucked out and ended up in management, but, if anything ever happens to his current job he'll start right back at $12 at a new company.

Trade jobs around here are also extremely gender biased. Where my husband works they do not hire women for anything but office work. Every once in awhile they will hire a woman, but, they fire her as soon as they can find a reason meanwhile the guys who work there have been doing the same infraction for years that got the new woman fired in a week.

I live in the south, if I went to trade school, I would owe money on a skill and NEVER get hired in it.

Even after all that, let's say you do go to trade school and manage to get hired and even manage to stay with the same company long enough to get paid enough to live on. What happens when you hurt your back? Not IF you hurt your back, but WHEN you hurt your back? You collect disability and have nothing else to fall back on because trades require a working back.

The pay in trade jobs is also grossly distorted by that handful of old guys still in it. The new guys will never earn what those guys are earning. The big raises are gone, it's just .25 cents here or .50 cents there now.

I could go on and on and on...

[dfrecore]

I love Mike Rowe, and everything he stands for.

He also advocates for moving to where opportunity is, so if you live somewhere and want to be a welder and actually make money at it, there are plenty of places that are looking for welders (including women welders) who will pay a very good wage for your skills. I happen to live in one of those places (San Diego).

One of the problems in the U.S. today is that people want to get a certain skill or degree, and then expect jobs to be knocking on your door. It used to be that we all expected that we would get a skill or degree and then GO find a job where that skill/degree was in demand. If you get a degree in Banking & Finance, and then expect your small town with no actual bank to create a job for you, you're going to be out of luck - you're going to need to go where they hire people with that degree.

If you want to stay in a particular area for whatever reason, then you need to get the skill/degree that is demanded in your area. So, if they only want welders with experience, and you can't get experience, then you shouldn't become a welder. Or, you can go somewhere to get experience, then move back. If you live in an area where they mine coal, you can't get mad that you can't find a job on an oil rig.

You don't get to make the market as you wish it would be, you have to deal with it as it is. It's a bummer, but that's life everywhere, not just in Florida.

[sanantone]

I love Mike Rowe, and everything he stands for.

He also advocates for moving to where opportunity is, so if you live somewhere and want to be a welder and actually make money at it, there are plenty of places that are looking for welders (including women welders) who will pay a very good wage for your skills.  I happen to live in one of those places (San Diego).

One of the problems in the U.S. today is that people want to get a certain skill or degree, and then expect jobs to be knocking on your door.  It used to be that we all expected that we would get a skill or degree and then GO find a job where that skill/degree was in demand.  If you get a degree in Banking & Finance, and then expect your small town with no actual bank to create a job for you, you're going to be out of luck - you're going to need to go where they hire people with that degree.

If you want to stay in a particular area for whatever reason, then you need to get the skill/degree that is demanded in your area.  So, if they only want welders with experience, and you can't get experience, then you shouldn't become a welder.  Or, you can go somewhere to get experience, then move back.  If you live in an area where they mine coal, you can't get mad that you can't find a job on an oil rig.

You don't get to make the market as you wish it would be, you have to deal with it as it is.  It's a bummer, but that's life everywhere, not just in Florida.

What you're saying is true. You might have to move where the jobs are. However, moving far away is expensive, and a lot of people can't afford to do so. You can choose to train in a career that's in demand in your area if any career is in demand in your area. Some cities and states don't have much of anything going on. But, what you said should be heard by all those blue collar workers in the Midwest and Appalachia. They can either continue to whine about all the factory and mining jobs going away, or they can train for today's jobs.

[cookderosa]

I'm not saying I disagree with all of Jennifer's points, but I love Mike Rowe too, and I love his message.
I don't think there's anything wrong with spending a lifetime developing your craft - becoming a master. That used to be what people aspired to, mastery - respect for your skills and talents in your field. That kind of thing takes a long time- sometimes decades. My husband was a competent chef at 22 but a master at 40. If money is the goal, you have to do something more creative than punching a timecard.

He teaches now, but many of our colleagues opened their own businesses or took corporate chef positions eventually. (yes, you'll break your back if you work the hot line at age 40- that's a young man's gig. So, get good and get off the line so you can lead the kitchen instead of working in it - shockingly not everyone aspires for more) There is money for the ambitious, but they are the ones who spent a long time and years being ambitious to become great - and the money followed.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but in USA, we think we're poor if we can't buy a Coach purse, Starbucks, and take the kids to Disney. First world problems.

[dfrecore]

I love Mike Rowe, and everything he stands for.

He also advocates for moving to where opportunity is, so if you live somewhere and want to be a welder and actually make money at it, there are plenty of places that are looking for welders (including women welders) who will pay a very good wage for your skills.  I happen to live in one of those places (San Diego).

One of the problems in the U.S. today is that people want to get a certain skill or degree, and then expect jobs to be knocking on your door.  It used to be that we all expected that we would get a skill or degree and then GO find a job where that skill/degree was in demand.  If you get a degree in Banking & Finance, and then expect your small town with no actual bank to create a job for you, you're going to be out of luck - you're going to need to go where they hire people with that degree.

If you want to stay in a particular area for whatever reason, then you need to get the skill/degree that is demanded in your area.  So, if they only want welders with experience, and you can't get experience, then you shouldn't become a welder.  Or, you can go somewhere to get experience, then move back.  If you live in an area where they mine coal, you can't get mad that you can't find a job on an oil rig.

You don't get to make the market as you wish it would be, you have to deal with it as it is.  It's a bummer, but that's life everywhere, not just in Florida.

What you're saying is true. You might have to move where the jobs are. However, moving far away is expensive, and a lot of people can't afford to do so. You can choose to train in a career that's in demand in your area if any career is in demand in your area. Some cities and states don't have much of anything going on. But, what you said should be heard by all those blue collar workers in the Midwest and Appalachia. They can either continue to whine about all the factory and mining jobs going away, or they can train for today's jobs.

And that's why I said you can either move, or choose a skill/career that is in demand in your area.

And moving if you have nothing isn't that expensive.  I've done it multiple times.  I had a thousand bucks in the bank and could load everything I owned in my crappy car.  Now, I had something lined up on the other end, and that took time - but it certainly wasn't expensive to move my stuff.  And, if you live somewhere that's really expensive like many places in CA, it's MORE expensive to stay.

You can come up with excuses why something can't happen, and end up stuck in a crappy place with a crappy job, or you can find another way.  But please don't stay stuck, do nothing about it, and then complain.  I know WAY too many people that do this.

[sanantone]

I love Mike Rowe, and everything he stands for.

He also advocates for moving to where opportunity is, so if you live somewhere and want to be a welder and actually make money at it, there are plenty of places that are looking for welders (including women welders) who will pay a very good wage for your skills.  I happen to live in one of those places (San Diego).

One of the problems in the U.S. today is that people want to get a certain skill or degree, and then expect jobs to be knocking on your door.  It used to be that we all expected that we would get a skill or degree and then GO find a job where that skill/degree was in demand.  If you get a degree in Banking & Finance, and then expect your small town with no actual bank to create a job for you, you're going to be out of luck - you're going to need to go where they hire people with that degree.

If you want to stay in a particular area for whatever reason, then you need to get the skill/degree that is demanded in your area.  So, if they only want welders with experience, and you can't get experience, then you shouldn't become a welder.  Or, you can go somewhere to get experience, then move back.  If you live in an area where they mine coal, you can't get mad that you can't find a job on an oil rig.

You don't get to make the market as you wish it would be, you have to deal with it as it is.  It's a bummer, but that's life everywhere, not just in Florida.

What you're saying is true. You might have to move where the jobs are. However, moving far away is expensive, and a lot of people can't afford to do so. You can choose to train in a career that's in demand in your area if any career is in demand in your area. Some cities and states don't have much of anything going on. But, what you said should be heard by all those blue collar workers in the Midwest and Appalachia. They can either continue to whine about all the factory and mining jobs going away, or they can train for today's jobs.

And that's why I said you can either move, or choose a skill/career that is in demand in your area.

And moving if you have nothing isn't that expensive.  I've done it multiple times.  I had a thousand bucks in the bank and could load everything I owned in my crappy car.  Now, I had something lined up on the other end, and that took time - but it certainly wasn't expensive to move my stuff.  And, if you live somewhere that's really expensive like many places in CA, it's MORE expensive to stay.

You can come up with excuses why something can't happen, and end up stuck in a crappy place with a crappy job, or you can find another way.  But please don't stay stuck, do nothing about it, and then complain.  I know WAY too many people that do this.

A lot of people live paycheck to paycheck. All of their money goes to bills and living expenses. I realize that I'm fortunate to not have been raised in an economically depressed region. But, the only reason why I was able to afford to move from San Antonio to Austin (not very far apart) was because of my financial aid refund. LOL

[eriehiker]

I think that we can get into a chicken/egg situation in terms of policy. The US generally has a system that supports the free movement of business across borders. Communities and states that don't bend over to business lose the businesses. And we've seen the end result - businesses are not loyal to anyone nor anyplace. They are fine just outsourcing to China or whatever lowest-common-denominator set of rules.

We could set the rules to help local communities and people who love families who live in a particular place or can't move for a million reasons. We could also help communities who raise great kids only to see them all move away at the first possible chance.

I think that the Mike Rowe philosophy is sometimes used by Midwesterners who don't see any high end jobs and rather than rethinking the rules, encourage bright kids who could do something great to downsize their dreams and stay home.

[sanantone]

Mike Rowe ticks me off on a regular basis. My husband is a welder. Sure, you can make a decent wage after you've been in it for YEARS, but, only until a robot takes over or your plant closes down. My husband paid $20k for his welding training to make $12 an hour to start. There are tons of people around here who go to welding school, but, companies only want people with experience, so the same 40 welders with experience keep shuffling around to the same jobs and the ones who went to welding school but didn't manage to get experience work at Walmart.

I wish more people would speak up about how work in the trades really is. Where I'm at, certified welders with experience start at $12 an hour. Now, my husband lucked out and ended up in management, but, if anything ever happens to his current job he'll start right back at $12 at a new company.

Trade jobs around here are also extremely gender biased. Where my husband works they do not hire women for anything but office work. Every once in awhile they will hire a woman, but, they fire her as soon as they can find a reason meanwhile the guys who work there have been doing the same infraction for years that got the new woman fired in a week.

I live in the south, if I went to trade school, I would owe money on a skill and NEVER get hired in it.

Even after all that, let's say you do go to trade school and manage to get hired and even manage to stay with the same company long enough to get paid enough to live on. What happens when you hurt your back? Not IF you hurt your back, but WHEN you hurt your back? You collect disability and have nothing else to fall back on because trades require a working back.

The pay in trade jobs is also grossly distorted by that handful of old guys still in it. The new guys will never earn what those guys are earning. The big raises are gone, it's just .25 cents here or .50 cents there now.

I could go on and on and on...

I appreciate hearing your direct experience. Oftentimes, we hear people saying it's easy to do this or that when they've never really done anything like it, or when they've never really financially struggled. 

There are people in this country who experience true poverty. As a whole, the U.S. is nowhere near a developing country, but most people in this country are sheltered from areas that have extreme poverty. Forget Starbucks. Flint, MI didn't have clean water. Their children were being exposed to elevated levels of lead. In parts of Maryland, kids are in old houses with peeling, old paint, and their IQs are being affected by the lead. In Appalachia, there are still people who don't have indoor plumbing and/or don't have electricity. 

There are also over a half a million people who are homeless in this country. Millions of kids in the U.S. get most of their meals at school. When school is on break, they often don't know when they're going to eat next. I had a friend who said that she and her siblings would drink a lot of water to feel full because they sometimes had no food to eat. My family often ran out of food, and we would get donated bread that was moldy, pasta that had larvae in it, and off-brand canned goods that somehow had roaches in them. There were many times when we ate bread for dinner. I worked for a social services agency, and we regularly got calls about homes not having water because the family couldn't afford to pay the bill and families living in cars. I remember receiving a report about a kid in North Texas who was sleeping in a room with a broken window, and there was no heat in the home. The temperature was in the teens.

[Jenniferinfl]

Mike Rowe ticks me off on a regular basis..
I could go on and on and on...

I appreciate hearing your direct experience. Oftentimes, we hear people saying it's easy to do this or that when they've never really done anything like it, or when they've never really financially struggled. 

There are people in this country who experience true poverty. As a whole, the U.S. is nowhere near a developing country, but most people in this country are sheltered from areas that have extreme poverty. Forget Starbucks. Flint, MI didn't have clean water. Their children were being exposed to elevated levels of lead. In parts of Maryland, kids are in old houses with peeling, old paint, and their IQs are being affected by the lead. In Appalachia, there are still people who don't have indoor plumbing and/or don't have electricity. 

There are also over a half a million people who are homeless in this country. Millions of kids in the U.S. get most of their meals at school. When school is on break, they often don't know when they're going to eat next. I had a friend who said that she and her siblings would drink a lot of water to feel full because they sometimes had no food to eat. My family often ran out of food, and we would get donated bread that was moldy, pasta that had larvae in it, and off-brand canned goods that somehow had roaches in them. There were many times when we ate bread for dinner. I worked for a social services agency, and we regularly got calls about homes not having water because the family couldn't afford to pay the bill and families living in cars. I remember receiving a report about a kid in North Texas who was sleeping in a room with a broken window, and there was no heat in the home. The temperature was in the teens.

I work in a public library within walking distance of a middle school where more than 90% of the kids qualify for free lunch. I help their parents file for food stamps; these are dads who drive forklifts or do auto repair or work construction and moms who work retail or food service or cna and so on and they all qualify for assistance. A lot of them have done some college or some trade school and neither thing has helped them get anywhere. 

Homes where I live are at least $140k and the household median income is $41k. These families all live several families to a home. It's not unusual for the kids I work with to share a bedroom with 3-5 other children. 

We finally have a program to provide free lunches during the summer. A lot of kids used to fail school on purpose so they had to take summer school so that they could eat. 

We finally don't qualify for assistance. I'm actually thrilled to owe some taxes and not qualify for EIC.