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Law School with less then 60 graded credits
#31
(03-21-2025, 08:34 PM)lincolnlawyer Wrote:
(03-21-2025, 11:13 AM)HogwartsSchool Wrote: If you are a US citizen or not. Going the foreign law degree + US LLM, will result in an immediate disadvantage against anyone with a JD in the US, both for hiring and overall salary. Also, some takes have very strict requirements for foreign law degrees to take the Bar exam, making it very challenging. Not saying you can't be successful but its creates many additional hurdles you must overcome. With that said. If someone is unable to finance/loan/scholarship for a US JD than a foreign law degree + US LLM might be more of an economic viability, if your state bar will allow that method "foreign law degree + US LLM" Also, many states bars will NOT accept Online, foreign law degrees, it must be in person.

One additional note: A post from someone mentioned a GDL in the UK. I haven't seen any state bars accept a GDL as equivalent to a foreign law degree (LLB). I would be extremely proactive and speak with the state bar before pursing a GDL + US LLM.

Just to clarify my position on the GDL/LLB(UK) + LLM option, I don't advise anyone to do this but with three exceptions:
(1) you are experiencing financial difficulties to sponsor yourself through law school/can't justify the ROI of incurring more than $100k in debt;
(2) your education limits your possibility to enroll in a JD program (like OP);
(3) you are pursuing bar admission in ANY of the 50 states to boost your career (many foreign lawyers I know do this - they don't practice law in the US; they offer legal advice on US law overseas, focus on ADR, work in compliance, or act as the 'middleman' for foreign companies - usually those from their home country - in need of representation in the US.)

My understanding of bar admission requirements for applicants with foreign education is solely based on my memory, so anyone reading this is advised to verify this information by consulting the website of the National Conference of Bar Examiners (NCBE) and reviewing relevant rules of state bar associations.
 
The GDL can always be laddered into an LLB (hons/accelerated). You can also do a Qualifi/OHTM level5&6 extended diploma and top it up into an LLB. That should satisfy the first degree in law requirement for most states. 

Quote:Also, many states bars will NOT accept Online, foreign law degrees, it must be in person.

This is absolutely correct. The question is, then, that  among the states that allow applicants with foreign education to sit for the bar, how many allow the first degree in law to be completed via distance learning, and would a conversion program  like the GDL suffice? As far as I know, California is the only state that fits the profile. The California Bar uses its own foreign education evaluation to determine eligibility, and someone in my cohort had her GDL evaluated as qualifying law degree = first degree in law.

New York, on the other hand, imposes through statute that an applicant with foreign legal education must suffice a two-part ("substantive" and "duration") requirement in order to take the bar. An LLM can only 'cure' one part of the requirement, but not both. This effectively limits the scope of foreign credential evaluation as your qualifying legal education must be similar in length and content to a JD at a US law school. In this case, a GDL is unlikely to succeed. I don't recall NY having an in-person requirement, so in theory a three-year LLB or a two-year LLB (hons) taken online could satisfy the requirement, as most JD programs are either 2 (accelerated) or 3 years in length.

Speaking specifically of those in OP's position, my reasoning in favor of an LLM is simple: it is hard to justify the ROI. Personal Injury and Civil Rights Advocacy haven't been lucrative fields of legal practice for a very long time. They certainly are incomparable to big law (no offense, OP), and many in the practice are struggling to find clients to make ends meet. OP is unlikely to get into a T20 or T14 due to no-GPA, and going to a T50~ school will still require at least 3 years of time and close to $100k of debt in student loans. 

A GDL/LLB + LLM will cost only $60K at most, and most LLM programs allow direct transfer into their JD programs. Some universities like American University even allow credit transfer from an LLM program taken at a different school.

The way I see it, with fields that require a lot of independent/boutique-sized work like Personal Injury or Civil Rights Advocacy, it is best to "test the waters" by getting a bar license first, and if you feel like your career needs the JD, transfer into one later on.

As for why I advise against NWCU, NWCU takes 4 years to complete, and it only qualifies one to take the California bar. As someone who has taken the bar and passed, you really don't need 4 years of law school to pass the bar. In fact, many would agree that studying for the bar is completely different from studying in law school. Plus, many LLM programs don't accept those with a state-accredited degree. This means that even in states where those with a California-accredited law degree can cure their qualifications with an LLM and take the bar, finding a program itself will be extremely difficult.

Great post and no offence at all. I totally get where are you coming from and instead, I am very thankful for your thoughts as this is why I posted here. And, that's being said, if no T100 with a full ride, maybe instead of LLB + LLM I can look into Canadian JD + US LLM? Do you think it can be more favourable for me since Canadian JD is something closer to the US Bars than GDL or LLB (don't mean similar laws, but the system is more known)? Since I am Canadian, law school is cheaper here, I can get some student aid and avail of support from my wife, she will be working here anyway, while in the US - she won't be able to until someone supports her work visa. In addition to disability advocacy, I can potentially practice something transborder.
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#32
Certain law schools in Canada are pre-approved for certain state bars in the US. If you are going the Canadian JD route, you might not need a US LLM. And, it sounds like this might be a better option anyway.

Recognized Canadian Law Schools
While there is no single “pre‐approved” list issued by U.S. authorities, most states that permit foreign legal education review will evaluate applications from graduates of major Canadian law schools. The following institutions are commonly recognized as providing a substantive legal education in Canada:

University of Toronto Faculty of Law
Osgoode Hall Law School (York University)
McGill University Faculty of Law
Queen's University Faculty of Law
University of British Columbia (Peter A. Allard School of Law)
Dalhousie University Schulich School of Law
University of Calgary Faculty of Law
University of Ottawa Faculty of Law
University of Alberta Faculty of Law
University of Manitoba Faculty of Law
University of Victoria Faculty of Law
University of New Brunswick Faculty of Law
University of Saskatchewan College of Law

U.S. State-by-State Overview
Massachusetts
Eligibility:
The Massachusetts Board of Bar Examiners accepts graduates from Canadian law schools provided the candidate’s legal education is recognized by the relevant Canadian law society and is substantively equivalent to that of an ABA‐approved program.
LL.M. Requirement:
An additional LL.M. is generally not required when the candidate’s JD is found equivalent.

New York
Eligibility:
The New York State Board of Law Examiners evaluates foreign legal education on a case‐by‐case basis. Canadian JD holders must submit their credentials for evaluation to determine if their education is substantially equivalent to that of an ABA‐approved law school.
LL.M. Requirement:
Typically, if the evaluation confirms that the Canadian JD meets the required standards, an LL.M. is not required. However, if deficiencies are noted, additional coursework (such as an LL.M.) may be necessary.

California
Eligibility:
The State Bar of California permits foreign-trained lawyers, including those with a Canadian JD, to sit for the bar exam. Applicants must have their legal education evaluated to confirm equivalency to an ABA-approved education.
LL.M. Requirement:
An LL.M. is not automatically required. If the evaluation shows that the legal education is equivalent, no further coursework is needed; if not, the applicant may be advised to complete additional study (often via an LL.M. program).
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  • Nemfis
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#33
Depends where you want to practice, if you're going to California for example, you can decide on a few affordable online programs that are CalBar recognized. If you're looking to stay in Canada and maybe practice in other states as well, then do the Canadian JD, get some years experience, then decide where you want to settle later...
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#34
Another important factor to consider: how do you plan to practice law?

For example, let’s say you’re admitted to a T14 law school in the U.S. with a full-ride scholarship. BigLaw firms primarily recruit from T14 schools (and occasionally from a few T20 schools). However, working in BigLaw typically means 80–100 hour workweeks, and burnout is common within the first 1–2 years. Many lawyers end up leaving the profession altogether as a result.

Alternatively, you could work at a boutique firm or start a solo practice but going solo without prior experience can be much more difficult. There's also the public sector: you could work as a public defender or a prosecutor.

You mentioned wanting to help people navigate the system. Clarifying how you want to do that will help guide your law school decision too.
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  • Jonathan Whatley
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#35
(Yesterday, 03:22 PM)HogwartsSchool Wrote: Another important factor to consider: how do you plan to practice law?

For example, let’s say you’re admitted to a T14 law school in the U.S. with a full-ride scholarship. BigLaw firms primarily recruit from T14 schools (and occasionally from a few T20 schools). However, working in BigLaw typically means 80–100 hour workweeks, and burnout is common within the first 1–2 years. Many lawyers end up leaving the profession altogether as a result.

Alternatively, you could work at a boutique firm or start a solo practice but going solo without prior experience can be much more difficult. There's also the public sector: you could work as a public defender or a prosecutor.

You mentioned wanting to help people navigate the system. Clarifying how you want to do that will help guide your law school decision too.

Just putting this here before I can find time to give a more detailed response to OP and others:

OP has made clear an interest in Personal Injury and Civil Rights (disability) advocacy. That would likely be boutique/non-profit work. Solo is possible but I agree it is not recommended without extensive experience. 

But that’s exactly why I suggest the absolute low-cost route. None of those sectors are where the money is.
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