ENEB Master Thread

[IHatePickingUsernames]

... so I know how to work around them. <evil grin>

One way to work around them is not to use them. For all of the talk we have about FCEs, and it is a very necessary discussion, most of us will never actually need one.

Your take on how the FCEs are intentionally acting as gatekeepers in an unfair way is one I've read some others have, and I don't doubt it. There are degree programs that operate much the same way here in the United States, but no issue with those. Yet, when it comes from another country, suddenly they're everything from Bachelor's degrees to certificates. We are however assuming that is the general stance of NACES FCEs without being entirely sure. After all, we've only seen evaluations from a few.

The evaluators could make this easier by spelling out what they will or won't do with Propios, but only a few do that publicly. The rest are fully content with you spending your money and wasting it to be told they won't deem your Master Propio equivalent to a U.S. Master's degree, or at least not an accredited one.

I won't need one for the foreseeable future. But, if I ever do I'm fine with it being evaluated as graduate credits.

[Vle045]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

[BadSquirrelBeta]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

Ok?  And so what?

[Vle045]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

Ok?  And so what?

I simply clarified what it is.  It would be hard to find a reputable evaluator to claim it to be anything more.  If you don’t need it for academia or a government job, then there is no reason to waste time, money or effort with an evaluation of it anyways.

[IHatePickingUsernames]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

ACEI is a member of NACES, which is a trade association. Its entire purpose is to represent the interests of the US higher education system when it comes to FCEs. They act as a protectionist guild so that the US higher education industry doesn't lose money due to people opting for much more affordable foreign degrees. Just because their position is that ENEB master's degrees aren't equivalent to a US master's degree doesn't mean that it's true. Canada, and several other countries, evaluate ENEB master's degrees to be full master's degrees in their respective countries.

Also, you seem to think that employment in the private sector is of lower status than employment in government, so that makes ENEB master's degrees less desirable. That is NOT how they are treated in Spain. They are esteemed the same as official degrees; there is no stigma to having a Master Propio degree in Spain. It just depends on what the STUDENT plans to do with it. For those who don't want to work for the government, there is no need to get an official degree - a professional terminal master's degree is just fine. This is exactly what our ENEB degrees are.

If you're thinking these degrees are less esteemed in Spain because of the cost, then you clearly don't know much about them. We, here in the US, get a massive discount on the cost. However, people in Spain pay 7,600 EUR ($8,439 USD) for just the MBA alone. Do you really think that someone would pay that much money for a degree that has no real utility? (rhetorical question, no answer needed)

Lastly, as I said in another post, every college degree awarded in the USA is by ACEI's definition a propio degree, because colleges and universities choose which degrees to offer and the corresponding curriculums and methods of study. And there are still schools in the US (Brigham Young University comes to mind) where independent learners can take asynchronous learning courses, just like we're taking, for academic credit. 

I didn't mean to write so much, but the elitism and prejudice against these degrees aggravates me so much, especially because all these red herring arguments have been debunked so many times and some people just want to believe the worst because of the degree's price. It has to stop. It's a "cheap degree" for us, but not for the Spanish.

[Vle045]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

ACEI is a member of NACES, which is a trade association. Its entire purpose is to represent the interests of the US higher education system when it comes to FCEs. They act as a protectionist guild so that the US higher education industry doesn't lose money due to people opting for much more affordable foreign degrees. Just because their position is that ENEB master's degrees aren't equivalent to a US master's degree doesn't mean that it's true. Canada, and several other countries, evaluate ENEB master's degrees to be full master's degrees in their respective countries.

Also, you seem to think that employment in the private sector is of lower status than employment in government, so that makes ENEB master's degrees less desirable. That is NOT how they are treated in Spain. They are esteemed the same as official degrees; there is no stigma to having a Master Propio degree in Spain. It just depends on what the STUDENT plans to do with it. For those who don't want to work for the government, there is no need to get an official degree - a professional terminal master's degree is just fine. This is exactly what our ENEB degrees are.

If you're thinking these degrees are less esteemed in Spain because of the cost, then you clearly don't know much about them. We, here in the US, get a massive discount on the cost. However, people in Spain pay 7,600 EUR ($8,439 USD) for just the MBA alone. Do you really think that someone would pay that much money for a degree that has no real utility? (rhetorical question, no answer needed)

Lastly, as I said in another post, every college degree awarded in the USA is by ACEI's definition a propio degree, because colleges and universities choose which degrees to offer and the corresponding curriculums and methods of study. And there are still schools in the US (Brigham Young University comes to mind) where independent learners can take asynchronous learning courses, just like we're taking, for academic credit. 

I didn't mean to write so much, but the elitism and prejudice against these degrees aggravates me so much, especially because all these red herring arguments have been debunked so many times and some people just want to believe the worst because of the degree's price. It has to stop. It's a "cheap degree" for us, but not for the Spanish.

Not elitism or anything like that.  And I didn’t say private sector employment is lower status. 

I said, according to that link, they are not intended for government jobs or doctoral admission.   That’s the long and the short of it.  If you don’t need it for that, then there’s no reason to twist up in knots about what some trade association says about it.   

They all say something different anyways.  Continuing education, bachelors equivalent, certificate equivalent, etc. etc.  All are fair because it is different.   Not better or worse… just different.   

If you don’t want a government job or pursue a doctoral degree, then it really doesn’t matter what any evaluation or an online forum says.  It seems the whole point of contention is what evaluators say. Kick them out of the equation. 

Accept that they are not for government jobs or doctoral admissions, and if it fits your needs, go ahead and use it.  If you want a government job or doctoral degree, then you will need something else.   I’m saying treat it like they do.  It stands on its own for private sector professional use.

[BadSquirrelBeta]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

Ok?  And so what?

I simply clarified what it is.  It would be hard to find a reputable evaluator to claim it to be anything more.  If you don’t need it for academia or a government job, then there is no reason to waste time, money or effort with an evaluation of it anyways.

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.

Yes, that is how I am using it.  But if you look at the link that I shared, it tells you clearly how the degree is used is Spain.  It is not intended for entrance to a doctoral program nor for any type of government job.  It is intended for private employment.   I also read a similar statement in materials I received directly from ENEB.

So, if the intention in Spain is for Private employers to determine if it meets their criteria, then we can treat it the same way.  If you are looking for work in the private sector, list it on your resume and let the employer decide if the degree works for them.  If you want to get in to a doctoral program or government job in the US, you may need to get an additional masters from an RA school.

ACEI is a member of NACES, which is a trade association. Its entire purpose is to represent the interests of the US higher education system when it comes to FCEs. They act as a protectionist guild so that the US higher education industry doesn't lose money due to people opting for much more affordable foreign degrees. Just because their position is that ENEB master's degrees aren't equivalent to a US master's degree doesn't mean that it's true. Canada, and several other countries, evaluate ENEB master's degrees to be full master's degrees in their respective countries.

Also, you seem to think that employment in the private sector is of lower status than employment in government, so that makes ENEB master's degrees less desirable. That is NOT how they are treated in Spain. They are esteemed the same as official degrees; there is no stigma to having a Master Propio degree in Spain. It just depends on what the STUDENT plans to do with it. For those who don't want to work for the government, there is no need to get an official degree - a professional terminal master's degree is just fine. This is exactly what our ENEB degrees are.

If you're thinking these degrees are less esteemed in Spain because of the cost, then you clearly don't know much about them. We, here in the US, get a massive discount on the cost. However, people in Spain pay 7,600 EUR ($8,439 USD) for just the MBA alone. Do you really think that someone would pay that much money for a degree that has no real utility? (rhetorical question, no answer needed)

Lastly, as I said in another post, every college degree awarded in the USA is by ACEI's definition a propio degree, because colleges and universities choose which degrees to offer and the corresponding curriculums and methods of study. And there are still schools in the US (Brigham Young University comes to mind) where independent learners can take asynchronous learning courses, just like we're taking, for academic credit. 

I didn't mean to write so much, but the elitism and prejudice against these degrees aggravates me so much, especially because all these red herring arguments have been debunked so many times and some people just want to believe the worst because of the degree's price. It has to stop. It's a "cheap degree" for us, but not for the Spanish.

Not elitism or anything like that.  And I didn’t say private sector employment is lower status. 

I said, according to that link, they are not intended for government jobs or doctoral admission.   That’s the long and the short of it.  If you don’t need it for that, then there’s no reason to twist up in knots about what some trade association says about it.   

They all say something different anyways.  Continuing education, bachelors equivalent, certificate equivalent, etc. etc.  All are fair because it is different.   Not better or worse… just different.   

If you don’t want a government job or pursue a doctoral degree, then it really doesn’t matter what any evaluation or an online forum says.  It seems the whole point of contention is what evaluators say. Kick them out of the equation. 

Accept that they are not for government jobs or doctoral admissions, and if it fits your needs, go ahead and use it.  If you want a government job or doctoral degree, then you will need something else.   I’m saying treat it like they do.  It stands on its own for private sector professional use.

Certainly would encourage any elitist and self righteous posters to feel free to kick themselves out of the equation as well.

No ENEB Ambassador Code any more, either?

[Vle045]

No ENEB Ambassador Code any more, either?

I just got it a few days ago.  I am still deciding how and where I want to share it.

[KSoul]

This thread is always entertaining and filled with so much fire on both sides of the map and interesting middle-ground topics to which the lion's share has no connection, yet it is fascinating to read.

As for these hard lines of what the degrees can't be used for, I would encourage you to let more time unfold to see how the resourceful members in the forum challenge the use of ENED degrees. If you start from page one, the degree is worthless, and we have already confirmed RA Master & Bachelor level transfer value and Doctorate entry into two universities. I look forward to more victories over time as the graduate count increases.

Heads up to anyone asking about an ENEB Ambassador discount, if you sign up without paying for a master (start the process and not complete the payment stage), they end up sending you an offer for the same Ambassador discount to entice you to complete your enrollment.

[NK5920]

This thread is always entertaining and filled with so much fire on both sides of the map and interesting middle-ground topics to which the lion's share has no connection, yet it is fascinating to read.

As for these hard lines of what the degrees can't be used for, I would encourage you to let more time unfold to see how the resourceful members in the forum challenge the use of ENED degrees. If you start from page one, the degree is worthless, and we have already confirmed RA Master & Bachelor level transfer value and Doctorate entry into two universities. I look forward to more victories over time as the graduate count increases.

Heads up to anyone asking about an ENEB Ambassador discount, if you sign up without paying for a master (start the process and not complete the payment stage), they end up sending you an offer for the same Ambassador discount to entice you to complete your enrollment.

Hey KSoul! How long did it take you to complete the course? How long does it usually take to complete the program? Also, did you had a WES Canada evaluation for Immigration purpose. I would love to get answer for this question.