ENEB Master Thread

[eLearner]

... it's interesting how when Sophia.org gets attention by giving away thousands and thousands of courses for free no one bats an eye, but when ENEB enters a new market with aggressive pricing through a marketing channel its competitors aren't using, somehow that's supposed to be a bad thing.

I've seen similar negative reactions to nationally accredited schools with the same features as other schools that people have no problem with. A few years ago, one person here said that anyone who chooses a nationally accredited school has "a low IQ" and a number of other nonsensical conclusions. But in that person's signature line there was a list of a ton of courses taken from Straighterline, an unaccredited school. Yeah, SL's courses may be ACE evaluated but the school is still unaccredited, while many of Penn Foster's courses are ACE evaluated as well and it happens to be a nationally accredited school. I guess ACE must have a collective "low IQ" as well, smh...

As you know, people can have very strange (and very wrong/confused/absolutely ridiculous) takes on things in this realm (and I say that in general and not directed at any specific person in this thread).

With this ENEB situation, I don't think optimists or pessimists should be taking any victory laps just yet.

[Merlin]

... it's interesting how when Sophia.org gets attention by giving away thousands and thousands of courses for free no one bats an eye, but when ENEB enters a new market with aggressive pricing through a marketing channel its competitors aren't using, somehow that's supposed to be a bad thing.

I've seen similar negative reactions to nationally accredited schools with the same features as other schools that people have no problem with. A few years ago, one person here said that anyone who chooses a nationally accredited school has "a low IQ" and a number of other nonsensical conclusions. But in that person's signature line there was a list of a ton of courses taken from Straighterline, an unaccredited school. Yeah, SL's courses may be ACE evaluated but the school is still unaccredited, while many of Penn Foster's courses are ACE evaluated as well and it happens to be a nationally accredited school. I guess ACE must have a collective "low IQ" as well, smh...

I must have missed those posts, but yeah ACE credits create a weird grey area. NA credits can be troublesome too, but for different reasons. Picking either of these options has nothing to do with poor IQ though. Those kinds of comments sound more like the kinds of things people say on the other forum. That is part of the reason I'm not active over there in fact.

The interesting thing to me is that ACE providers are not themselves accredited colleges, but they offer courses that transfer to and are accepted by accredited colleges towards their own degrees. These credits are fine for most people who just need a checkbox degree, but it becomes a larger issue when people with ACE credits on their transcript later wish to pursue additional degrees. Particularly when they seek degrees at colleges that do not accept ACE credits. While the degrees are valid, ACE courses generally do not meet academic entry requirements and can sometimes hurt GPA requirements. This is why it is sometimes better to take real courses rather than go with the cheaper ACE credit options.

Overall, NA credits are probably better than ACE credits since they are at least accredited somewhere and therefore should have higher transferability. IMO it is just a bit of academic snobbery that keeps NA and RA credits from being interchangeable these days. I think it is quite odd that RA colleges will accept ACE courses to meet degree requirements while they will not accept NA courses to do the same. I imagine that barrier will eventually drop though... I know the USDOE is pushing for this as well.

As you know, people can have very strange (and very wrong/confused/absolutely ridiculous) takes on things in this realm (and I say that in general and not directed at any specific person in this thread).

Yep. You have to expect that from a public forum. We're lucky to have a core group of people who have accumulated a ton of knowledge and are nice enough to share it, but that doesn't mean it is always accurate or should be treated as gospel. Especially considering policies and equivalencies change, etc. Plus a lot of time people are expressing their opinion or just making an educated guess.

We also have a lot of new people who are also trying to help but may not always see the full picture or know all the nuances.

In any case, it is always best to consider other input but do your own research and make your own opinions before acting on anything.

With this ENEB situation, I don't think optimists or pessimists should be taking any victory laps just yet.

I agree. While I'm pessimistic about the value of this degree beyond personal edification and to pad a resume with a mostly useless credential, I'm happy to be proven wrong if someone manages to get a WES evaluation proves that the degree has high transferability to the US.

[durain]

I am curious.  What is the major issue/concern here? Accreditation of Uni of Isabel 1? Credit transferability? Prestige?

Accreditation: Uni of Isabel 1 is an approved tertiary institute in Spain. So what is the issue here?

Transferability: An MBA is a stand-alone degree.  Not sure why credits transferability is critical here?
Becos after the MBA, still want to get another degree with maximum credit transfer? For pursuing a PhD?

Prestige: Uni of Isabel 1 is an unranked,not-so-well-known online private tertiary institute. Same category as WGU, Purdue Global, U of People?
What is the problem with this on the CV ?:
Master in Business Administration
University of Isabel 1, Spain

[rachel83az]

I am curious.  What is the major issue/concern here? Accreditation of Uni of Isabel 1? Credit transferability? Prestige?

I think the biggest issue for some people is the way ENEB seems to be sending out people to create fresh accounts wherever this degree is mentioned (mostly Reddit) to post gushing praises of the program. It's a bit spammy. So there must be something "wrong" with the degree if they have to do that.

I get where they're coming from. But it's not like they're the only institution that is bad at running some sort of PR campaign. They are the only ones offering a degree for such a low price, however, and that makes them highly visible on this forum.

[eLearner]

I am curious.  What is the major issue/concern here? Accreditation of Uni of Isabel 1? Credit transferability? Prestige?

Accreditation: Uni of Isabel 1 is an approved tertiary institute in Spain. So what is the issue here?

Transferability: An MBA is a stand-alone degree.  Not sure why credits transferability is critical here?
Becos after the MBA, still want to get another degree with maximum credit transfer? For pursuing a PhD?

You make a good point. I think unless one is interested in a PhD or another Masters program where you might attempt to transfer some credit, or teaching, most of the worries discussed won't really matter and will instead come down to how an employer may view a foreign degree. I think people are looking for that extra confirmation from an equivalency evaluation, I'm interested in it myself. I'll just point out that even degrees that are fully acceptable in their own country don't always translate to being acceptable in another according to an evaluation, and that each NACES evaluator can turn out a different evaluation result. WES could say it's not equivalent to an RA Masters, ECE could say it is equivalent to an RA Masters, another evaluator could say it's equivalent to an RA graduate diploma. We'll see in time.

Prestige: Uni of Isabel 1 is an unranked,not-so-well-known online private tertiary institute. Same category as WGU, Purdue Global, U of People?
What is the problem with this on the CV ?:
Master in Business Administration
University of Isabel 1, Spain

I would just say that WGU might be kind of well-known given its enormous student base over the years, and all of its advertising in the last three. But compared to the schools with big time sports programs everyone knows, and the Ivy's, I'd agree that they aren't so well-known.

[openair]

Personally, I find the whole discussion in this thread rather puzzling.

It has already been established that it is a legitimate titulo propio degree in Spain. ENEB has the status of an independent collaborating centre that works with a recognized Spanish university. You can verify that by contacting the university. A titulo propio is not a an official state-recognized degree in Spain. Why would you expect this university's-own degree award to be seen as equivalent to a government-recognized/accredited Master's degree in another country? It doesn't have that status in Spain! Secondly, why would WES be some kind of an arbiter in this dispute? Their evaluation is irrelevant to the status of this degree in Spain. There are thousands of credential evaluation agencies in the U.S. WES is just a single agency under the umbrella of the much larger NACES membership association. AICE is another professional membership association with full recognition by the U.S. Dept. of Education. Again, why the constant focus on WES?

If this degree doesn't give you access to doctoral studies in Spain, why would you even expect it to give you access to such studies (which a positive WES evaluation would effectively do) in the United States? This is a legitimate Master's degree, but it isn't equivalent to a state recognized degree in Spain. It's a legal professional university's-own Master's degree award with no connection to state-recognized degrees. It probably won't be seen as equivalent to a regionally accredited degree.  Then again, it won't be an issue unless you're desperately trying to make this degree into something that it wasn't meant to be in the first place. :-)

[eLearner]

The WES focus is probably there for many because WES is accepted and named by a number of schools as the place students with foreign credentials should go for an evaluation before enrolling.

[innen_oda]

Secondly, why would WES be some kind of an arbiter in this dispute? Their evaluation is irrelevant to the status of this degree in Spain. There are thousands of credential evaluation agencies in the U.S. WES is just a single agency under the umbrella of the much larger NACES membership association. AICE is another professional membership association with full recognition by the U.S. Dept. of Education. Again, why the constant focus on WES?

Many North American employers specifically require an evaluation from WES in order to hire someone with a tertiary credential from a foreign country - this is especially true in the education industry, where a degree may be required in order to teach.
WES is not the only out for, but it's certainly seen - rightly or wrongly - as the 'main' one. I couldn't hire anyone for a teaching position at a college in a North American country (trying to be vague here!) unless they had a degree from <short list of Western Anglo countries>, or had a WES evaluation for their foreign degree. It just saved the time if trying to discern between real degrees, and rando 'pay us for our bit of paper' degrees.

I don't know about the US but it does seem to be a valid degree in Europe. As long as one doesn't want to get a PhD (which I do not), it appears to be perfectly valid for getting a job. I realize that a lot of forum members are American citizens who are still in the US but there are plenty of international forum members as well for whom this degree might work, even if it turns out that it's not recognized by WES for whatever reason.

I guess it might depend on which European country, but I am quite confident that you'd have a hard time in Eastern Europe. A lot of weight is put on 'known' universities. I'm not willing to guinea pig myself, but I strongly suspect I'd be lol'd out of any workplace in my country if I attempted to represent myself as having an MBA from this . . . 'school'.

[rachel83az]

I don't know about the US but it does seem to be a valid degree in Europe. As long as one doesn't want to get a PhD (which I do not), it appears to be perfectly valid for getting a job. I realize that a lot of forum members are American citizens who are still in the US but there are plenty of international forum members as well for whom this degree might work, even if it turns out that it's not recognized by WES for whatever reason.

I guess it might depend on which European country, but I am quite confident that you'd have a hard time in Eastern Europe. A lot of weight is put on 'known' universities. I'm not willing to guinea pig myself, but I strongly suspect I'd be lol'd out of any workplace in my country if I attempted to represent myself as having an MBA from this . . . 'school'.

It's a good thing I don't plan on getting a job in Eastern Europe. I'm aiming for an EU country that appears to accept these types of degrees just fine.

[openair]

innen,

Your confidence is misplaced. Most employers in Eastern Europe (I am from this general region) know next to nothing about ANY American or Spanish universities. They might have heard of a few places (Harvard, MIT). By your standard, Thomas Edison State University and Charter Oak State College should also be the subject of LOL reactions, as these "regionally accredited" universities are not known outside of the United States. In fact, regional accreditation itself is an unknown concept. I suppose that they are all diploma mills, right? Please take my opinion seriously! I have not heard of them, so I am sure that they are all crappy. I am not sure why anyone who's curious about a foreign university should care about what ignorant people say in private. As I said, Universidad Isabel I grants a titulo propio degree. If you do some research (instead of ranting), you'll know why this particular Spanish degree wasn't even meant to be compared to official state-recognized degrees.