Do exams take away crucial knowledge needed....

[Prloko]

So I have a degree plan set up, This summer I will be attending Franklin University I will be getting a BS in computer science. But meanwhile with my 70ish CC credits in general classes I will be going to try and get my BSBA CIS from TESC but I was hoping to be able to test out of some classes at Franklin (they call it a FUPE) but do you ever feel if taking an exam will take away from what you should be learning?

Like many others on this site, I've taken a ton of DSST/CLEPS and can tell you that I definetly didn't feel I lost anything. Now there are others that study only the minimum to pass the exam and Instantcert is designed to teach the test, not the subject (sometimes you will see teachers do this as the will stomp their foot to empahsize "this is on the test, pay attention"). Do they know the subject? maybe, maybe not, knowledge depends so much more than just classroom learning. Want to see if you know a subject, try to explain it to someone who has no knowledge of it. If you can explain it, than you know it.

[Publius]

I read an article recently (can't remember where) that stated our current education system is based on a public education system developed in Prussia (now part of Germany) with one of it's primary goals of building good/little boys and girls who behave, are compliant and aren't free thinkers. If I find it again, I'll post a link; I think it was in The Chronicle. So yes, a huge part of our grades are on how well you play with others.

Which is why when you break out of their system and their little boxes you are either (1) praised, (2) criticized, or (3) met with a blank stare cause they're basically oblivious.

But yes, that's what they want to see. Masses of compliant behaved people, who don't think for themselves. They're dumbing us down, and most people just let it happen. Just look at where we stand compared to the rest of the developed world when it comes to education. We think it's just education and "kids" but those kids are tomorrows workforce. Don't really want to think that our economy is going to get worse, but it looks like there's even rougher times ahead (esp when we're in over our head with debt as it is).

[cookderosa]

Which is why when you break out of their system and their little boxes you are either (1) praised, (2) criticized, or (3) met with a blank stare cause they're basically oblivious.

But yes, that's what they want to see. Masses of compliant behaved people, who don't think for themselves. They're dumbing us down, and most people just let it happen. Just look at where we stand compared to the rest of the developed world when it comes to education. We think it's just education and "kids" but those kids are tomorrows workforce. Don't really want to think that our economy is going to get worse, but it looks like there's even rougher times ahead (esp when we're in over our head with debt as it is).

I'll elaborate a bit, because I'm not a public school/educational system hater.
By evaluating compliance, I mean that your grade reflects how well you followed the instructions of the course syllabus and or attendance policy. The written paper needs to be X pages, in this style, this many sources, etc. If you follow the instructions and do an average job with content, you'll score points. Again, irrelevant to learning, the objective is to follow directions. I think people drop out of college for this reason, but that's for another day.

My is high school son is taking English 101 down the street - his first 5 paragraph essay assignment (draft) was due yesterday. I looked it over, peachy keen. I should scan the paper so you believe me, but there were about 20 mark-ups. There were 2 comments on content. (tell me more about this, need a transition here).

Guess what the other marks were about?

Placement of his name
Double spacing
Teacher's name was wrong (he wrote Ms. while she wanted Mrs.)
Class section must go next to the English class number
Use a paper clip not a binder clip
...
and on and on...

Compliance. Of course he should format it according to the directions. And following directions are a component of learning. HOWEVER, the key to earning a good grade in this class is 100% following directions, not writing well. Compliance = good grades.

My son isn't especially good at being an OCD "Type A" direction follower, lucky his mom is lol. But seriously? Ticks me off. Classes like this eat kids and spit them out. (student loans and all)

[Publius]

I'll elaborate a bit, because I'm not a public school/educational system hater.
By evaluating compliance, I mean that your grade reflects how well you followed the instructions of the course syllabus and or attendance policy. The written paper needs to be X pages, in this style, this many sources, etc. If you follow the instructions and do an average job with content, you'll score points. Again, irrelevant to learning, the objective is to follow directions. I think people drop out of college for this reason, but that's for another day.

My is high school son is taking English 101 down the street - his first 5 paragraph essay assignment (draft) was due yesterday. I looked it over, peachy keen. I should scan the paper so you believe me, but there were about 20 mark-ups. There were 2 comments on content. (tell me more about this, need a transition here).

Guess what the other marks were about?

Placement of his name
Double spacing
Teacher's name was wrong (he wrote Ms. while she wanted Mrs.)
Class section must go next to the English class number
Use a paper clip not a binder clip
...
and on and on...

Compliance. Of course he should format it according to the directions. And following directions are a component of learning. HOWEVER, the key to earning a good grade in this class is 100% following directions, not writing well. Compliance = good grades.

My son isn't especially good at being an OCD "Type A" direction follower, lucky his mom is lol. But seriously? Ticks me off. Classes like this eat kids and spit them out. (student loans and all)

Precisely. Compliance = Good Grades. They reward obeying and following directions more then they do learning. The focus is way off. And meanwhile, millions of kids are being pumped out school not knowing how to learn or have knowledge per se, but how to comply. That's not what schools, college's, or universities were designed for.

[defscarlett]

Agree with that, I've turned in papers in my B&M classes that I was fully aware were absolute crap and had no focus, but got over 90% on them because they followed all of their stupid little bullshit directions.

[MN456]

I think College today is basically a scam to suck as much money out of either you or the government as possible. Now of course you do learn a lot, but its not worth the basic tuition of regular courses. I'd personally rather take the exam for much cheaper, learn just enough to pass, and then use the free time later on in life to actually learn the material (if I even find it necessary).

[Daithi]

My sister is a high school English teacher and she is also a stickler in regards to following her rules, but there is a reason for it. She actually reads the essays that she makes her students write, so having everyone follow the same formatting rules saves her a lot of time, as reading all those essays is time consuming enough. As I've said before, I personally prefer learning on my own, and I'd really be ticked if a teacher marked down one of my papers because I didn't follow some formatting rule that had nothing to do with the subject I was learning. On the other hand, I also understand why teachers may insist on students following their rules. BTW, last year the school at which my sister teaches had four students get accepted to Stanford. My sister taught every single one of them, so she must be doing something right.

[sanantone]

While formatting rules can be annoying, there is a very good reason to get used to this. In high school, we were required to use MLA. In my undergraduate classes, we were required to use APA. In my graduate program, we are using the Chicago Styles. I know that not everyone wants to become a researcher, but these standardized formats exist for a reason.

I just had a professor who docked my papers because he didn't like my choice of words. None of my other professors have had any problems with my wording. It was only him and I was quite upset that he could affect my GPA based on his personal preferences for writing style which can't even be spelled out in a rubric.

[cookderosa]

While formatting rules can be annoying, there is a very good reason to get used to this. In high school, we were required to use MLA. In my undergraduate classes, we were required to use APA. In my graduate program, we are using the Chicago Styles. I know that not everyone wants to become a researcher, but these standardized formats exist for a reason.

I just had a professor who docked my papers because he didn't like my choice of words. None of my other professors have had any problems with my wording. It was only him and I was quite upset that he could affect my GPA based on his personal preferences for writing style which can't even be spelled out in a rubric.

Who gets used to it? The 26% that make it through. (86% of all high school graduates START college. 26% will graduate) Who goes to grad school? 13%. Have only 13% of the Americans "learned" English?
When did you last send a business letter in APA or MLA? Puh-leeze.
I've always stood in the same arena, college is a credential. Jump through the hoops to get the piece of paper. If you can avoid crap, do so. If you can avoid spending extra money, do so. If you can avoid dealing with teachers, do so. I promise you, bullpoo like punitive teaching absolutely 100% causes students to drop classes. The resilient 26% are just the people that have figured it out and are doing it anyway. I don't think learning is EVER part of it.

[NAP]

Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts. I'm printing all 10 pages......