Diploma Mills

[bluebooger]

CookDeRosa University

This sounds like a new Culinary School that would fit well in Laguna Beach - Sign Me Up!!!

those aprons are perfectly clean 
those people don't have any flour, sauce or anything on their hands or clothes 
and look at those women with the long hair --- LOL at chef with hair hanging out like that 

what did they do ? just walk in, sign a check and get handed a diploma ? 
that place is obviously a diploma mill

[RANSOMSOUL]

CookDeRosa University

This sounds like a new Culinary School that would fit well in Laguna Beach - Sign Me Up!!!

those aprons are perfectly clean 
those people don't have any flour, sauce or anything on their hands or clothes 
and look at those women with the long hair --- LOL at chef with hair hanging out like that 

what did they do ? just walk in, sign a check and get handed a diploma ? 
that place is obviously a diploma mill

Lol...I know the President of CookDeRosa University and This Can't Be!!!! Mrs. Jennifer Say It Aint So!!??!!

[Gloddy]

I am only posting to this because over the past year, I have fully embraced the opportunity to use resources like TESU, study.com and degreeforum.net to assist me in finishing the education I should have completed 20+ years ago.  I am so glad I discovered this community.

I had a bad experience this week with a new client and this thread has brought up similar feelings.

I work with highly educated people (primarily professors, researchers, and medical doctors).  I am required to give every client a standardized bio which states in pretty plain language that I have no education beyond high school. For the most part, my clients are not worried about it, especially after they start working with me. They understand that the firm I work for knew what type of clients I would be facing every day and still hired me for the position.

Well, this week a new client started with "you didn't got to college?"  I explained that I have been in the industry for more than 20 years, I have multiple professional designations and I am more than qualified to help him.  I then said I was finishing my Finance Degree.  He said that is great. Where?  I said TESU and he said "Do you even have to show up there?"

I am not even sure he meant it the way it sounded, but it definitely stung. Especially given he is right. Technically, I don't have to show up there.

He is still my client and we had a great first meeting, but I felt bad about for it at least a full day.  I finished two classes today and worked half way through another before stopping for the night to come here. This thread, while a misunderstanding stirs the bad feelings pot.

I am one of the people who is "speeding" through the Gen Ed credits.  For the most part the classes are things that I know but need a little refresher. I have been treating it like a testing out procedure.

None of this will stop me from continuing my journey, but felt compelled to share after reading this thread.

Thanks for reading.
Gloddy

[Ideas]

I then said I was finishing my Finance Degree.  He said that is great. Where?  I said TESU and he said "Do you even have to show up there?"

I am not even sure he meant it the way it sounded, but it definitely stung. Especially given he is right. Technically, I don't have to show up there.

I think he only came up with that because he knew you were working a lot. Like, hm if you can do that and also work, maybe it's easy? But I don't agree that we "don't have to show up". Of course, technically we don't have to actually be in a physical classroom at certain times, but we have to spend hours with our textbooks/etextbooks/lessons, testing in front of a live proctor (or on a recorded video), figuring out what classes work with our advisors, etc. We have deadlines for applying for graduation, enrolling, etc.

I'm glad the majority of clients are not concerned. It will be soon enough that you get to put your degree! Keep going fast on the GenEds so you can get to the other parts 

[posabsolute]

I'm pretty sure this particular conversation has come up a lot over the years. The social expectation from a bachelor is 4 years spent "butt in seat" at an average university. When you tell someone you acquire your degree in another way you can get a range of reactions, from thinking that it is actually pretty cool, to someone being pissed off because he did put 4 years and now feel cheated off.

To be honest, I had a hard time understanding macroeconomics and applied accounting material over at study.com, I still passed the course and the exam on the first try. No way this would have happened in a normal class setting. All of this isn't stopping me from earning A's currently in my capstone.

This degree may help you in many ways, but you need to understand what you are getting and how to play its strengths and weaknesses.

[bluebooger]

..
I am one of the people who is "speeding" through the Gen Ed credits.  For the most part the classes are things that I know but need a little refresher. I have been treating it like a testing out procedure.
...

yeah, that's totally different though from people who want to go through the flashcards and "learn" just enough to pass a CLEP exam 
people who do that have credits that are worth as much as IT certifications where people passed the exam by doing "exam crams" but have no real world IT experience 
Microsoft certifications used to be laughed at because they were so worthless because of those people

I've been reading through the WGU subreddit and I'm amazed at the number of people having problems with the assignments in the spreadsheets class and other students telling them "don't worry, just do the final assessment and you'll pass" 

and the things people are having problems with are ridiculously simple formulas -- really, really basic stuff
if you can't do those formulas then you have no business passing that class 

WGU is supposed to be a school for people with experience, a competency based program 
but its become obvious to me that a lot of people in it are not competent at all 

you are competent and qualified 
and if you can pass any exams with just a quick refresher that's great - you're earned your knowledge from years of experience

but it has always bothered me when people come on here with no prior knowledge, no experience, and want to run through a quick set of flashcards to pass the psychology or sociology CLEP exam without ever cracking open a book -- I always want to yell out "buy a damn, book ! even if its a short Barron's  EZ-101 Psychology and read the damn thing"   

the excuse I often see here is that freshman at a brick & mortar school aren't putting in the time and effort -- they're just cramming all night for the final, so how is this any different ?

I don't know how -- maybe it isn't -- but its just lazy either way 

and you know what , if someone's not putting in the effort at a brick & mortar school and they're just cramming the night before, then maybe that person should have gotten their degree from a diploma mill -- their educational outcome would have been the same 

any by the way, I work in the pharmacy department of a hospital so I know what its like to be the only one without a degree 
those people know SO MUCH more than me about biology, physiology, genetics ... 

I can can kick their butt in all things Excel

[jsd]

I'm going way off topic now but Excel skills have been invaluable for me. I'm shocked by how many people in my field, a technical field at that, lack basic Excel knowledge. These are people with technical knowledge that could put mine to shame but somehow aren't familiar with vlookups or whatever.

[cookderosa]

Nobody ever said that. You just choose to take it that way.

The guy said that if you're not going to bother to learn as you take courses you might as well just buy your degree. It was meant as criticism, not as a statement on accreditation.

You're right, I did. He offered purchasing a degree as an alternative to completing one that was without learning. That offer implies that they are at the very least similar, if not equal, alternatives to each other.

This is the copy/paste that I wrote in the other thread, and I stand by every word:

"I understand your point, but there are a few things to clarify:
1) learning is a personal experience.
2) a credential is issued by an external entity.

While it is true that some students may experience learning and credential earning simultaneously, obtaining a credential is done by payment to the issuer and meeting their requirements.

To use personal experience, I am a voracious learner. I study some topics very deeply, I read EVERY day, I am good at researching using credible resources, and I'm good at thinking critically. If I wanted to use my knowledge in some way BEYOND my personal enjoyment, then I probably need a credential to make that happen. How likely are you to hire me to rewire your house without a license? I could have 20 years experience prior to the day I got that license, or 20 minutes- it makes no difference. The credential is the "checkbox" that is needed.

I do think that the world is full of well-experienced and highly qualified people who lack only the piece of paper. That alone is preventing them from job advancement, a raise, or a something else. To give a crap about whether or not they learned Sociology to a depth that I (not a college) decide is "the right amount" is obnoxious and self-centered. I guess if I'm an "A" student (I am), I could say everyone who got a "B" is a joke and doesn't deserve their degree....but that would be equally obnoxious.

People here are resourceful and playing BY THE RULES. Everything else is just an opinion.

Edit to add: a diploma purchased from a diploma mill is illegal in most states. EVERYONE here is pursuing a fully accredited and legally obtained degree."

---

CookDeRosa University

This sounds like a new Culinary School that would fit well in Laguna Beach - Sign Me Up!!!

those aprons are perfectly clean 
those people don't have any flour, sauce or anything on their hands or clothes 
and look at those women with the long hair --- LOL at chef with hair hanging out like that 

what did they do ? just walk in, sign a check and get handed a diploma ? 
that place is obviously a diploma mill

Lol...I know the President of CookDeRosa University and This Can't Be!!!! Mrs. Jennifer Say It Aint So!!??!!

You guys are distracting from the thread lol- I'm not opening a culinary school. This was some kind of event- they all have a copy of the same book, and one guy has a medal. Possibly a school contest of some kind. Not lab though, their hair is wrong. Not lecture, they wouldn't have on aprons. Maybe a demo or something. I can't see his medal clearly to see what it is.

[High_Order1]

I feel strongly about this.

This very topic is the main reason I was reticent to go the alternative route.

I cringe everytime I see a brand new poster, saying they need a complete four year degree in a few months as a job requirement or something. I cringe when I read about people knocking out HUGE amounts of credit in super-short time frames.

BECAUSE

When someone questions them on one of those topics; I hope they can articulate well. Speed degrees that leave the holder as empty-headed as when they begun will do nothing but make the path harder for legitimate seekers.

I am a very, very fast reader and typically a quick study. To have to slog through classes I already had mastery of the subject material butt-in-seat fashion would have been prohibitive in both cost and time, and I probably would not have finished. Maybe. Probably not.

As I went on my college journey, I found there was much still to be learned. And I still hold concerns that people will remain to look at non-traditional paths as inferior to legacy methods. I am glad this path was available to me, I am especially glad that Aleks was available, and I'll make the best of what I did.

But, I don't find what he said insulting OR demeaning. I can't say that I unequivocally agree with his thought; but I think it's a conversation that deserves to be had. And, there is some merit in questioning retention of knowledge and skills via compressed schedule learning. I don't feel, after doing it, that it is the best path for people that didn't have previous exposure to the majority of it.

Interesting discussion...

[studiousimp]

I feel strongly about this.

This very topic is the main reason I was reticent to go the alternative route.

I cringe everytime I see a brand new poster, saying they need a complete four year degree in a few months as a job requirement or something. I cringe when I read about people knocking out HUGE amounts of credit in super-short time frames.

BECAUSE

When someone questions them on one of those topics; I hope they can articulate well. Speed degrees that leave the holder as empty-headed as when they begun will do nothing but make the path harder for legitimate seekers.

I am a very, very fast reader and typically a quick study. To have to slog through classes I already had mastery of the subject material butt-in-seat fashion would have been prohibitive in both cost and time, and I probably would not have finished. Maybe. Probably not.

As I went on my college journey, I found there was much still to be learned. And I still hold concerns that people will remain to look at non-traditional paths as inferior to legacy methods. I am glad this path was available to me, I am especially glad that Aleks was available, and I'll make the best of what I did.

But, I don't find what he said insulting OR demeaning. I can't say that I unequivocally agree with his thought; but I think it's a conversation that deserves to be had.  And, there is some merit in questioning retention of knowledge and skills via compressed schedule learning. I don't feel, after doing it, that it is the best path for people that didn't have previous exposure to the majority of it.

Interesting discussion...

I feel strongly about this too and echo the sentiment that credibility is one of the reasons I hesitated in pursuing this path.

Here's the thing though: We're all different. Aside from pursuing a very broad path (usually including alternative credit sources and ways to legitimize one's existing knowledge) toward a general outcome (a legitimate and accredited degree), we're as diverse in our individual circumstances, abilities, goals and aspirations as a group of strangers on the Internet could be. And those differences matter. A lot.

In fact, I'd say those differences are what make it possible for some to earn a huge amount of credit quickly with the available routes. I know personally I could do that on subjects where I have a significant base of understanding. Compressed learning in those subjects was more about compressed learning what specifically would be on an exam. How is that different than cramming for a test? It's not. It happens every day to butt-in-seat students too.

I'm sure most of us proceed at a more appropriately snail-like pace in areas where we don't have significant background. But until USNY/Excelsior, there was no way to quanitfy that knowledge into a degree.

My first exposure to all this was over two decades ago through a boyfriend whose degree was from USNY Regents. At his urging I took the GRE in Englsih and scored sufficiently to earn the max. It was maybe 30 units, both LL and UL. I didn't continue because I still thought I'd go the traditional route but the GRE is no slouchy exam. It tests knowledge. Too bad it's not more widely used today. It's hard to argue that an exam that test graduate school readiness is not an accurate indicator of undergraduate proficiency.

The first time I read BAin4Weeks I thought... omg no way! Unless you actually can answer the questions on all those CLEPS, how can this be? That was several years ago but I think it still holds true today. You have to know the material to test out of the material. It's the method of learning that's flexible here.

Somebody (Jennifer?) has a signature that says, "Hard Work Sold Separately." I couldn't agree more with that too. No matter which accredited degree path we choose, it's a safe bet there will be work. It's a safe bet that there will be some pesky requirement we may wish weren't there that demands weeks or months of study... So be it. It may be a rich learning experience and it may be a dry endurance test... or something in the middle. That's no different than obstacles faced by students in more traditional contexts.

We live in a fast paced, instant gratification age where Cheap, Fast, Easy is an effective marketing framework. What's important to me is that the Big 3 don't use those. Students find out soon enough that there is some work involved. It's more flexible and often faster paced

We may pay a price in prestige for pursuing degrees this way. But these degrees are credible. They are a necessary step to legitimate and traditional (or legitimate and untraditional) grad school entrance. They tick a box that matters more these days than perhaps it ever has.

Criticism of what we're doing here (and the learning required) with anything offered by a diploma mill strikes me as both naive and narrow. You can't take a diploma mill degree to graduate schools at Harvard or Hopkins or a myraid of the other institutions our members have attended. You also need more than these degrees to succeed at those institutions. What wer'e doing here makes it possible. Not guaranteed. As with anything else worth doing, hard work is always sold separately.