Degree Planning from scratch for late career software engineer

[christinadq]

[quote pid='368366' dateline='1654227476']
One school that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread, but might be worth looking into is South Texas College. They offer a couple of self-paced/competency based degrees that might be good for him: Bachelor of Applied Technology in Computer and Information Technology and a Bachelor of Applied Technology in Technology Management.

https://www.southtexascollege.edu/academics/cbe/
https://catalog.southtexascollege.edu/ba...gies/#text

Some info here, some good and some bad, about the program: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...as+college

Tuition is $850 per 7 week term for people in Hidalgo and Starr counties, $910 for other Texas counties.  They take CLEP exams, but not ACE or NCCRS credit (so no Sophia, study.com, etc). A year at WGU (2 six-month terms, likely what he would need to finish his BA) is $7,840. That is in the same ballpark as. TESU degree in CS or IT.  A year at South Texas (7 terms of 7 weeks each) would be $6,370, assuming you aren’t in the college’s district.
[/quote]

Thank you.  We are not in South Texas but I will definitely check them out for now.  Without Sophia though I think it would slow down some of his progress.  He started doing Sophia last night and signed up for his native language ACTFL tests (2 of them), both to be completed within the next ten days.  I think the best answer for now is to get as many credits banked and kind of go from there but I want to look at all options to best advise him.

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I am currently enrolled in the TAMUC Org Leadership program. This program is NOT a business degree by any means. I am learning leadership/management content. I have 15 years of management experience and chose this degree because of the price, I am also in texas. I spent around 8 months prior doing Sophia and Study.com to have the least amount of classes to take here.

You said starting from scratch, so I would recommend starting with Sophia and Study.com first and getting as many of those classes.

However, I think he should consider the WGU SW eng program, seems like something he could do quickly as someone else mentioned. Or if you want to learn business a UMPI business degree or a WGU one.

From his background perspective, it is closer to a Business field than he's had before.  In looking at it and the UMPI he liked TAMUC descriptions of courses and intentions behind the degree a little better. Getting a business degree in finance or accounting would be a stretch for him and not really what he wants.  He would like some undergraduate classes (electives maybe) that give him a bit more knowledge but there has been exposure in his career to some of that, but not as a specialty.  He signed up for the two ACTFL classes in his native language last night and started working his way through a Sophia class in accounting last night.  In the meantime I will look a bit more at the WGU SW eng program but he wrinkled his nose at it when we talked about it.  He is looking for something that increases his knowledge and abilities.  Quantifying his SW abilities is not necessary.  On the other hand, he does feel a little deficient in the area of business/management/leadership and the next promotion for him would be at a level where he would have an eye on the entire business and while leading one division, still need to be competent enough to be confident at that level.  So a bachelors that has a different perspective more towards things he wants to feel more confident about followed by a Masters in something seemed to really excite him. 

Thank you!

[dfrecore]

You did not say which foreign language(s) he's fluent in, which makes a difference.  If it's any of these, he'll get the most: French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Russian and Spanish.  If it's not, then he's limited to far fewer credits.

With the languages he speaks, he should be able to get 24 credits in his native language (they offer two options for testing) and 12 or more in the secondary (they offer 4 testing options for that one).  English is the third language and he has a low level of Spanish as well, but should be able to get 3 credits for that through Sophia or Study.com or something like that.

I am going to dive into TESU's current offerings a little bit with the examples you've outlined.  Thank you for guiding me towards it.

It's not cheap to get the ACTFL credits, so I wouldn't take more than you need.  Getting a ton of credits is nice, but paying for them and not having anywhere to put them is annoying to say the least.

Also, just because they have testing available for a language does NOT mean that they're worth ACE credit.  So you should just tell us the languages so we can tell you what he has available.  Unless you've already looked them up in the ACE Guide.

I would decide on the degree first, so that you can figure out the best use of your time/money on credits.  Honestly, just racking up a lot of credits generally gets you a bunch that you don't need - and you could have better spent the time/money doing something else.

If you're going to get a UMPI BABA, for instance, there just isn't anywhere to put 24cr of a foreign language.  You have 3cr in the GEC, and then 12cr of Free Electives.  Anything else is a waste.  For the TESU BSBA, you have 24cr between Humanities and Free Electives, but none of those need to be UL, so you may be better off doing the easier exams.  Etc.

Just be mindful from someone who knows, that getting credits you can't use is frustrating and can take you in the wrong direction.  Once you have a bunch of credits, you start looking for a place to put them, rather than choosing a degree and then planning out your credits.  You let the tail wag the dog.

Choose your degree FIRST, and then start getting your credits.

[christinadq]

@christinadq, Welcome to the board! I am going to be blunt and ask, do you have your tax info from last year? How much did you make? How about the hubby? Previous posts of mine usually mention 3 things, 1) Certs 2) Degree 3) Experience. Since your hubby has the experience, he can work on the certs/degree.  My recommendation is to get a Pierpont BOG AAS emphasis in Info Systems, ladder that up to TAMUC BAAS-OL or UMPI BAS triple minor, and finish with a PUG MBA/MSIT or WGU Masters of his choice.

TAMUC - For reference, here's a thread from about 10 months ago, review my post #11 and #19: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...ch-credits
TESU - Reference for a BALS NSM about 6 months ago, review entire thread, page two post #12: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...hts-Please
UMPI - A thread from last month, in regards to the triple minor, reference post #25 and #29: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...t-is-May-3

Our income is well above any sources of financial aid beyond loans if that is what you are asking about?  He makes a very nice salary, has a side business of doing additional software development for when he's bored and needs a brain challenge so typically we are in the mid-200's depending on how our rental properties do, sometimes a little loss there and sometimes a profit.  

My contribution to the household is no longer a financial one except by managing our rental properties but I take care of the "kids" who are almost not kids anymore, the house, the pets, the finances.  Basically he provides money, focuses on his career and and I do the rest so he can.   It looks old fashioned but I chose this.  I retired medically after a serious illness and we kept it that way to reduce my chances of recurrence and because we found it really worked better for us as a family too.

I used to be a professional counselor (went to brick and mortar grad school after TESU/Excelsior undergrad) and did degree planning/college and career planning for clients as a small piece of my work with students, so this is my wheelhouse.  It would take him a year of deep research to understand the US college system well enough to be on par with our graduating senior in terms of understanding how the education system here works and years beyond that to understand the distance education available and the nuances of these programs.  So I contribute by guiding him in this kind of thing and it saves his energy and gives my brain a chance to exercise too.

Pierpont - I looked at Pierpont two days ago probably after seeing one of your posts (I recognize your name/avatar) and I am actually intrigued by what they offer and how they work.  How would you see the AAS as being a better path than direct to Bachelor's?  I saw someone post that with the AAS from Pierpont going into UMPI there is a BAAS available instead of maybe the BLS?  Did I understand that right?  The BLS just on paper does not really match as well his career goals but BLS seems more liberal in terms of elective acceptance than BABA.  I believe in locking in the Associates as a stepping stone before you get the bachelors if its a smooth path to do so and that is why I was looking at Pierpont, but I couldn't find a big reason why it would be helpful except to maybe have those credits transcribed for easier transfer elsewhere which has value.

In terms of PUG/WGU and masters, I am trying to get a feel for the differences between their programs.  I see similarities but have not yet spent enough time contemplating the Masters to have sussed out significant differences between the programs (beyond the coursework itself) that matter in his situation.  There is definitely time before we reach that point though.

[Zardoz]

@christinadq, Welcome to the board! I am going to be blunt and ask, do you have your tax info from last year? How much did you make? How about the hubby? Previous posts of mine usually mention 3 things, 1) Certs 2) Degree 3) Experience. Since your hubby has the experience, he can work on the certs/degree.  My recommendation is to get a Pierpont BOG AAS emphasis in Info Systems, ladder that up to TAMUC BAAS-OL or UMPI BAS triple minor, and finish with a PUG MBA/MSIT or WGU Masters of his choice.

TAMUC - For reference, here's a thread from about 10 months ago, review my post #11 and #19: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...ch-credits
TESU - Reference for a BALS NSM about 6 months ago, review entire thread, page two post #12: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...hts-Please
UMPI - A thread from last month, in regards to the triple minor, reference post #25 and #29: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...t-is-May-3

Pierpont - I looked at Pierpont two days ago probably after seeing one of your posts (I recognize your name/avatar) and I am actually intrigued by what they offer and how they work.  How would you see the AAS as being a better path than direct to Bachelor's?  I saw someone post that with the AAS from Pierpont going into UMPI there is a BAAS available instead of maybe the BLS?  Did I understand that right?  The BLS just on paper does not really match as well his career goals but BLS seems more liberal in terms of elective acceptance than BABA.  I believe in locking in the Associates as a stepping stone before you get the bachelors if its a smooth path to do so and that is why I was looking at Pierpont, but I couldn't find a big reason why it would be helpful except to maybe have those credits transcribed for easier transfer elsewhere which has value.

I wouldn't bother with Pierpont in your husband's situation. Yes, it's a free power-up and a stepping stone, but it's still red tape and probably just a distraction. Really you just want to cut to the mustard as fast as possible and go straight for the BABA or BLS. It will be easy for him, he doesn't need extra confidence-builders.

[christinadq]

BUT -- lately he's gotten into management too, which he never thought he'd like until the last couple of years.  A business degree that actually teaches him new things and lets him put that knowledge to good use would also be useful and maybe actually better when looking towards the future.  So UMPI's BABA looked like a decent option or even their BLS with a Management or an MIS minor might really work OR perhaps even TAMUC's BAAS in Org Leadership (we are based in Texas and a local university would have more name recognition near us).

With an established career in software engineering, he probably doesn't really need to take a CS-heavy degree, unless he wants to go into research. I'm in a similar kind of position as he is- and to be honest, even for many research positions I'm a strong enough candidate as-is.

Given that he likes management, I would definitely encourage you to to look at a business / management / org leadership degree, since he'll probably learn more new & useful material that way and it will be a better career accelerator.

He can test out of languages with ACTFL and/or NYU SPS, depending on whether or not he wants/needs RA credit. Again, I'm in a very similar position there with a couple of European languages under my belt, and since I'll probably have more than enough RA credit, I'm really just rounding out my transcript with ACTFL for the shits and giggles.

If I were him, I'd probably gas up on Sophia and ACTFL and then go for the UMPI BLS w/MIS and MGT concentrations.

That is exactly how he feels about the CS degree.  It does not add anything - not new knowledge, nor evidence of skill - to his career.  He wants a bit of a stretch, even if it means more time to accomplish it.  

I think the NYU SPS is how I earned either 29 or 30 hours across two languages myself for my Bachelors that came in quite handy back when I was working on my undergrad.  I have lived in several countries as a child and then later young adult, so that was an easy way to get many of my electives handled. The NYU foreign language program is far more expensive I believe.

Right now he tends to be leaning towards the TAMUC degree for several reasons.  He researched the org leadership field and compared the degrees and the functions behind the degrees and he likes it better than more of a pure business degree.  Finance will bore him to tears, but leading people through challenging times towards a strategic vision is more what he's looking to do with his next steps. The speed potential of getting through the core courses required in residence are another plus and finally, that they are local to our area in North Texas.  Being close to us and in the TAMU system (recognized in TX) is something he likes.

He has a phone call into the city agency in his home town that stores transcripts long term (both high school and college) to learn how to get copies sent.  That's #1 priority as the schools close next week for summer but we aren't sure if the city office does as well (many city agencies close or significantly reduce hours for a lot of the summer there). We will have everything evaluated and he will apparently even need his high school transcripts evaluated by US standards for admission to these places.  I think that will take at least 6 weeks, so he will spend the time he has doing sophia classes.  

My intention today is to work up a potential degree plan for the BAAS at TAMUC and as a backup probably a BLS at UMPI and possibly a TESU degree plan as well, to present to him with different options.  

Downside to TAMUC is that it requires Texas Government, which I think he can get through our community college as an add on test if he CLEPs American Government.  One of our kids did that a couple of years ago.  They also, as a Tx public institution, may require him (as a student with nearly 0 credits) to take the Texas Success Initiative which is a state placement exam proving he can do college level work.  It's not hard but it is something he will have to do.  That's the downside to TAMUC.  They don't require any lab based science, which makes that a bit easier to source.  They also seem to be very liberal with their elective acceptance for their rather large bucket of electives needed for the degree.

[rachel83az]

The easy solution to TAMUC possibly requiring the TSI exam is to just take a few RA courses through Olivet Nazarene, Arizona State University, or TEL Learning. When I tried to get free classes through South Texas College, I was waived from having to take the TSI because I had a bunch of Sophia and RA credit. I had NOT completed any RA English or Math courses, but I had completed Sophia's English Comp I, College Algebra, and Stats. I also had a number of credits from ASU and other schools.

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Forgot to add: South Texas didn't accept ACE directly, but they DID accept that TESU accepted the courses. So, in a roundabout way, they kind of accepted Sophia's courses as RA even though they ARE NOT RA.

[origamishuttle]

P.S. Another thought. While his job may want his bachelor's degree to be U.S. based, graduate programs will not mind that he has a foreign degree. He could consider doing a master's to satisfy this need for a U.S. degree rather than getting a "redundant" bachelor's degree. The downside is that it won't be as cheap as the bachelor's (although the Georgia Tech OMSCS, at $7K or so, is pretty cheap), nor will he be able to go through it quickly. On the plus side, he will actually be learning new things, and enhancing his resume in a more meaningful way.

This is a great idea! If he can skip directly to the master's degree, he can avoid all the extra work of general electives and lower levels, and just concentrate on what interests him. Maybe this? https://www.wgu.edu/online-business-degr...ogram.html

[christinadq]

P.S. Another thought. While his job may want his bachelor's degree to be U.S. based, graduate programs will not mind that he has a foreign degree. He could consider doing a master's to satisfy this need for a U.S. degree rather than getting a "redundant" bachelor's degree. The downside is that it won't be as cheap as the bachelor's (although the Georgia Tech OMSCS, at $7K or so, is pretty cheap), nor will he be able to go through it quickly. On the plus side, he will actually be learning new things, and enhancing his resume in a more meaningful way.

This is a great idea! If he can skip directly to the master's degree, he can avoid all the extra work of general electives and lower levels, and just concentrate on what interests him. Maybe this? https://www.wgu.edu/online-business-degr...ogram.html

I wish that would be possible, but his coursework over there was not enough for a degree either.  It was a software development training program that he took, then starting working, then went into the military, then was asked to come back and teach the course to others coming out of high school and did so for two years.  It was not a degree conferring program but could have been transferred into one.  He had no interest in sitting in school for years when he could be out in the world doing.  

I did, however, look at a bridge type program at one of those that is a Bachelors to Masters program.  That could be interesting, I will have to find it again.

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P.S. Another thought. While his job may want his bachelor's degree to be U.S. based, graduate programs will not mind that he has a foreign degree. He could consider doing a master's to satisfy this need for a U.S. degree rather than getting a "redundant" bachelor's degree. The downside is that it won't be as cheap as the bachelor's (although the Georgia Tech OMSCS, at $7K or so, is pretty cheap), nor will he be able to go through it quickly. On the plus side, he will actually be learning new things, and enhancing his resume in a more meaningful way.

This is a great idea! If he can skip directly to the master's degree, he can avoid all the extra work of general electives and lower levels, and just concentrate on what interests him. Maybe this? https://www.wgu.edu/online-business-degr...ogram.html

I wish that would be possible, but his coursework over there was not enough for a degree either.  It was a software development training program that he took, then starting working, then went into the military, then was asked to come back and teach the course to others coming out of high school and did so for two years.  It was not a degree conferring program but could have been transferred into one.  He had no interest in sitting in school for years when he could be out in the world doing.  

I did, however, look at a bridge type program at one of those that is a Bachelors to Masters program.  That could be interesting, I will have to find it again.

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I worked on the TAMUC degree plan today.  With as open as their electives appear to be, this is one of the most open degree plans I have seen beyond the in-residence coursework of course.  

Their degree guide says "PROFESSIONAL DEVELOPMENT ELECTIVES (48 hours) Complete before starting the Applied Major Courses 48 hours of lower division and/or upper level coursework transferred and/or completed at TAMUC."  That means the ACTFL credits and Sophia can be used easily to fulfill this very wide open bucket of transfer credits.  

I found a possible benefit of a Pierpont AAS for his case.  If he transfers into TAMUC with a completed Associates degree it looks like they don't need high school transcripts which would be simpler than navigating government bureaucracy to get them and then have them evaluated here.  He will call to verify that but if so, that could be a good practical reason to pull those together on a transcript there and get the degree.

[davewill]

P.S. Another thought. While his job may want his bachelor's degree to be U.S. based, graduate programs will not mind that he has a foreign degree. He could consider doing a master's to satisfy this need for a U.S. degree rather than getting a "redundant" bachelor's degree. The downside is that it won't be as cheap as the bachelor's (although the Georgia Tech OMSCS, at $7K or so, is pretty cheap), nor will he be able to go through it quickly. On the plus side, he will actually be learning new things, and enhancing his resume in a more meaningful way.

I wish that would be possible, but his coursework over there was not enough for a degree either.  It was a software development training program that he took, then starting working, then went into the military, then was asked to come back and teach the course to others coming out of high school and did so for two years.  It was not a degree conferring program but could have been transferred into one.  He had no interest in sitting in school for years when he could be out in the world doing.  

I did, however, look at a bridge type program at one of those that is a Bachelors to Masters program.  That could be interesting, I will have to find it again.

Yeah, if he doesn't actually have a bachelor's degree, then you're probably back to getting one by the methods we advocate here. Most of the bachelor's to master's programs end up being pricy and not very flexible. However, I do encourage you to have those foreign credits evaluated. They will likely give him a leg up.

[bjcheung77]

@christinadq, Thanks for the updated info, depending on your answers I would have recommended you a FREE Bachelors for Texas residents, but you're not under the $100K/household requirement threshold.  Link: https://online.utpb.edu/falcon-free/

Everyone here is trying to be helpful and each of us are trying to provide you the cheap, easy, fast options to the degree and school of choice.  Having said that, you can make your cake and eat it too!  That's where I like to go beyond the 3, I look for extra ROI/Value.

The reason I mentioned Pierpont is for two reasons: 1) For the UMPI BAS (not BLS) you need an AAS with 40 technical credits to transfer in, the Pierpont AAS is a requirement.  2) For TAMUC, it'll be "easier" to transfer in the credits and also have it in a "credit bank".

Another reason you should do it this way is, an example, TAMUC page mentions the use of COSC Portfolio review or Excelsior One Transcript, each of theses have costs involved - $425 for the Excelsior option, it's nearly FREE at Pierpont!  I would use that $ for something else babe!

Now, you've been provided options on the Big 3 and several CBE options, what have you and the hubby decided on?  What appeals to you most?  Review my suggestion, some would shoot it down because it's not the cheapest, or easiest, or fastest, but it's a mix of all 3 and has the ROI/Value...

What may be best is to decide on the degree/school of choice first as mentioned, however; having said that, I would work on credits while deciding on that.  It's hard to plan, harder to decide, but hardest to START getting those credits - what if you keep changing your mind on the degree/school choice later?!