Conflicting info from TESU for dual degrees??

[ACI]

My son is getting ready to finish his dual CIS/CS degrees at TESU. 

We called academic advising today with some general questions.  The advisor (Dennis) told us something that really threw us.  He said when you graduate these two degrees (CIS/CS), you cannot have any overlapping credits between the two AOS.   He said NONE of the 6 classes in the CIS concentration can overlap with the CS AOS classes.  So, these three classes: (SDC) Computer Science 302 - system analysis, (SDC) Computer Science 303 Database Management, (SDC) Business 303 Management Info Systems cannot be counted both places. I know it was clearly stated here that we could have 3 overlapping classes and these were the suggestions.

He cited this from their website:
"Students who desire to have two different Thomas Edison State University baccalaureate degrees awarded in the same graduation cycle may do so providing 24 credits are different in the second degree's core/area of study. In addition, all requirements for both degrees must be satisfied."

So, he is saying that because the business degree only has 18 AOS credits required, all of them have to be different than the CS degree.  

I am really hoping he is wrong! Thanks for your help!

[davewill]

I can see how he could interpret it that way if he considers the CIS degree the second degree. However, if you consider the BACS the second degree, it has 45 credits in the AOS and there's plenty of room to get 24 different credits while still overlapping those courses.

[ACI]

I can see how he could interpret it that way if he considers the CIS degree the second degree. However, if you consider the BACS the second degree, it has 45 credits in the AOS and there's plenty of room to get 24 different credits while still overlapping those courses.

Yes, I see what you are saying. The wording above says 'two different degrees from the same graduation cycle'. So, TESU says this is what we are doing.  Is there wording on the website that refers to graduating the degrees as first or second degrees in the same graduation cycle?

If it does work to have overlapping classes, and I'm sure it does since many have done it ... How do we make sure that it will actually work when it comes time to graduate?

[davewill]

I can see how he could interpret it that way if he considers the CIS degree the second degree. However, if you consider the BACS the second degree, it has 45 credits in the AOS and there's plenty of room to get 24 different credits while still overlapping those courses.

Yes, I see what you are saying. The wording above says 'two different degrees from the same graduation cycle'. So, TESU says this is what we are doing.  Is there wording on the website that refers to graduating the degrees as first or second degrees in the same graduation cycle?

If it does work to have overlapping classes, and I'm sure it does since many have done it ... How do we make sure that it will actually work when it comes time to graduate?

Yeah, it's in the quote in your original post, "Students who desire to have two different Thomas Edison State University baccalaureate degrees awarded in the same graduation cycle may do so providing 24 credits are different in the second degree's core/area of study."

So, 24 credits have to be different in the second degree's AOS, not in the first.

[bjcheung77]

Basically, I'm not sure why there is any confusion here at all... It's always a one sided story and they may just be 'confirming' what is required. Either way you slice it, by doing the BSBA then the BACS or vice versa, you're graduating the same time, the difference in the major is already greater than the 24 credits. Thus, it shouldn't even be looked at, but they're just making sure of a few things. If this happens, tell them, the major already has over 24 credits that are different (18 AOS + 24 Business Core + capstone = 45 credits), or if you go the BACS option, the major is 45 credits, it differs from the BSBA Business Core by over 24 credits...

[ACI]

Basically, I'm not sure why there is any confusion here at all... It's always a one sided story and they may just be 'confirming' what is required.  Either way you slice it, by doing the BSBA then the BACS or vice versa, you're graduating the same time, the difference in the major is already greater than the 24 credits.  Thus, it shouldn't even be looked at, but they're just making sure of a few things.  If this happens, tell them, the major already has over 24 credits that are different (18 AOS + 24 Business Core + capstone = 45 credits), or if you go the BACS option, the major is 45 credits, it differs from the BSBA Business Core by over 24 credits...

Okay, thanks. After reading the replies here and the wording in that TESU paragraph, I see the confusion.  The admissions guy was saying only the 18 business AOS credits count in the 24 - not the core credits. He said he talks to people often who have the wrong understanding like we do.  Then later he removed the overlapping classes - (SDC) Computer Science 302 - system analysis, (SDC) Computer Science 303 Database Management, (SDC) Business 303 Management Info Systems ) from my son's CS degree.  He didn't tell us he was doing it.

Advice on which department to contact to get them put back in and to confirm that they count both Core+AOS when looking at the 24 credits?

[bjcheung77]

Okay, thanks. After reading the replies here and the wording in that TESU paragraph, I see the confusion.  The admissions guy was saying only the 18 business AOS credits count in the 24 - not the core credits. He said he talks to people often who have the wrong understanding like we do.  Then later he removed the overlapping classes - (SDC) Computer Science 302 - system analysis, (SDC) Computer Science 303 Database Management, (SDC) Business 303 Management Info Systems ) from my son's CS degree.  He didn't tell us he was doing it.

Advice on which department to contact to get them put back in and to confirm that they count both Core+AOS when looking at the 24 credits?

The only thing you need to complete is the courses required for the major. If you need to contact TESU for something... There are 3 main people I use that provide "valid" answers that I always email when I want to verify things. Patricia Certo, Don Stoltz, are my main "go to" and Chrystal Guadarrama is my "backup" when they're not available. They will follow up with you accordingly.

Side note: You may want to email Patricia, Don and if that fails, then email the registrar/registration just to rectify this if they can't address it. (If there was an unfavorable change made recently, we want to know what happened, you want to provide us feedback on what Don/Patricia mentioned.

[LevelUP]

My son is getting ready to finish his dual CIS/CS degrees at TESU. 

When you apply for graduation, be sure to petition to get the original BSBA CIS degree, considering you had the catalog locked in before July 1, 2023.

They did recently make an exception for a student on DF.

[ACI]

Updating this post...we first tried sending an email to advising - "Attention: Patricia Certo" - explaining the situation and asking her to put the classes back that were taken out. But it was intercepted by Dennis (the Menace). He said everything he had told us was correct (We could not have any classes overlapping in the AOS degrees) and said he had even confirmed it with the Dean.

So, we scheduled a call with Patricia instead. She immediately told us it was a 'misunderstanding' and put the classes back in. So, whew - glad that was resolved. My son had also reached his limit of ACE credits, and she was able to move classes around to make it work.

Question: I thought there could only be 3 overlapping classes between the two AOS degrees? Dennis started communicating with us again and told us that taking Software Engineering from TESU, would fulfill the requirements in the CS elective and also the CIS elective degree. So, we would have 4 overlapping classes in the AOS...?

It solves the problem with the Digital Marketing and Advertising class that was downgraded to LL. My son was actually in the process of fulfilling this last CIS elective by taking ASU Business Process Management (someone on another thread said they heard back from TESU that it would fulfill that slot). But, Dennis said he checked and that ASU class would NOT transfer in as CIS elective. That's when he told us that by taking Software Engineering, it would fulfill both the CIS elective and the CS elective.

So, takeaways from Dennis (who I don't know that I trust):
ASU Business Process Management does not count as an upper level CIS elective
TESU Software Engineering can fulfill both CS and CIS upper level electives (even though there are already 3 overlapping classes in AOS)
Sophia Business Communication will fulfill MAN-373 - Managerial Communications (but Sophias Principles of Management will NOT)

[bjcheung77]

The answer remains, it can swing both ways for the 4th class... They recently modified the degree plans around with the names of the degree and the modification to general education from 60 to 45 credits, thus making the major have extra electives, this allows the 4th (probably even more credits) to overlap. The evaluation will tell you where the 4th class goes, you can only have three overlapping classes unless there was a change in policy. I would again shoot this off to Don/Patricia to get final acknowledgement... If they say, sure thing, there is no need to further escalate to registrar/registration.