Can you "evaluate" my TESC BA in SS plan?

[FallingWaters]

I so appreciate everything I've learned from this site. Would anyone be interested in looking at the tentative plan I've put together for a BA in Social Science degree from TESC?

I've completed all the Gen Ed requirements.

In the Social Science portion of the Gen Ed, I have
Intro to Sociology
Intro to Psychology
Developmental Psychology (Human Growth & Devel CLEP)
Psychology of Adjustment (college course)

Under the concentration, the rules are:
27 credits needed
18 upper level
12-18 in one subject area (note ** = Psychology)
no more than 2 at the 100 level

Substance Abuse (UL)
Juvenile Del ECE (UL)
Abnormal Psychology TECEP (UL) **
Organizational Behavior (UL) **
Intro to Counseling (UL) **
+Capstone (UL)
Intro to Edu Psych **
Marriage and Family TECEP
Psych of Women TECEP **

In the second portion of the concentration where it says Complete 6 hours of Social Sciences at any level, I put Intro to Law Enforcement and Intro to Criminal Justice.

Any comments or suggestions?

[cookderosa]

bump - any ideas? I'm wondering if Law Enforcement is considered SS, I never remember on that one.

[cooperalex2004]

bump - any ideas? I'm wondering if Law Enforcement is considered SS, I never remember on that one.

Law Enforcement is by default an "AOJ" course, a human services area not valid for SS or other general ed categories. You can always ask for it to be matched elsewhere, but officially it's not valid for SS. See DANTES

[sanantone]

Cooperalex......I don't know why you do this all the time. :p AOJ courses are not inherently prohibited from social sciences per TESC's webpage which lists a few AOJ courses as being acceptable as social sciences. Yes, one should confirm with advisement through email (not phone), but there are issues with the human services category. In another thread, someone just had their Fundamentals of Counseling DSST counted as a social science and PSY-331 without having to ask (this has to be the millionth person by now?). That is also listed under human services as COU-something. I didn't take the DSSTs, but I had AOJ-101 (Intro to LE) and AOJ-102 (Intro to CJ) transcribed as social sciences. TESC would not code the DSSTs as AOJ-101 and AOJ-102 if they did not have the same content as their SOCIAL SCIENCE courses. They would be given their own code. I wouldn't say it's officially not valid since TESC has had mistakes on their webpages in the past.

You can see here that TESC counts 5 of its AOJ courses as social sciences including Intro to CJ (AOJ-102).
Thomas Edison State College: General Education Electives

[cookderosa]

Cooperalex......I don't know why you do this all the time. :p AOJ courses are not inherently prohibited from social sciences per TESC's webpage which lists a few AOJ courses as being acceptable as social sciences. Yes, one should confirm with advisement through email (not phone), but there are issues with the human services category. In another thread, someone just had their Fundamentals of Counseling DSST counted as a social science and PSY-331 without having to ask (this has to be the millionth person by now?). That is also listed under human services as COU-something. I didn't take the DSSTs, but I had AOJ-101 (Intro to LE) and AOJ-102 (Intro to CJ) transcribed as social sciences. TESC would not code the DSSTs as AOJ-101 and AOJ-102 if they did not have the same content as their SOCIAL SCIENCE courses. They would be given their own code. I wouldn't say it's officially not valid since TESC has had mistakes on their webpages in the past.

You can see here that TESC counts 5 of its AOJ courses as social sciences including Intro to CJ (AOJ-102).
Thomas Edison State College: General Education Electives

I knew there was a reason I never remembered lol. So, that class will be "iffy" but just tell your advisor you'd like to "plan" it into your transcript, and they will enter it in and it will hold the place. If it won't work, he'll tell you and you can "plan" in another credit in its place. The rests looks good, you're getting close!!

[cooperalex2004]

Cooperalex......I don't know why you do this all the time. :p AOJ courses are not inherently prohibited from social sciences per TESC's webpage which lists a few AOJ courses as being acceptable as social sciences. Yes, one should confirm with advisement through email (not phone), but there are issues with the human services category. In another thread, someone just had their Fundamentals of Counseling DSST counted as a social science and PSY-331 without having to ask (this has to be the millionth person by now?). That is also listed under human services as COU-something. I didn't take the DSSTs, but I had AOJ-101 (Intro to LE) and AOJ-102 (Intro to CJ) transcribed as social sciences. TESC would not code the DSSTs as AOJ-101 and AOJ-102 if they did not have the same content as their SOCIAL SCIENCE courses. They would be given their own code. I wouldn't say it's officially not valid since TESC has had mistakes on their webpages in the past.

You can see here that TESC counts 5 of its AOJ courses as social sciences including Intro to CJ (AOJ-102).
Thomas Edison State College: General Education Electives

Since the question was about one particular exam, I stand by what I said. I even wrote that there may be an exception, but that this was the published match to that exam. I realize there are many ways around what is listed as a course match, I myself made a ton of strange course changes to make my degree plan, but when people ask about a specific exam the short answer for most of the cases is that for anyone who is hoping for a perfect match, the safest bet is to follow TESC's matches and not to give them hope about how someone else did it in the past. It is sad to see people each week or two who have utilized other users degree plans only to find out that something has changed or that TESC won't code something a certain way. The recent mess with the AAS Capstone is a perfect example, users could have added the degree months earlier and not have gotten locked in to the capstone, but chose to wait for one of many reasons and now what worked for me and many other users no longer works. As you said, the only safe way to proceed is to get something in writing. I try to give good advice and not provide too much hope about changing too many course matches, in many cases is it just easier to take a different exam or course instead of going through the process of fighting a course match. For those who are still planning and not enrolled (which would lock you into a catalog year and into a planned out set of courses), the best advice I can give (in my opinion) is to follow the course matches that are given by the school. Once you enroll you can always use the information from this site to challenge the matches and you'll often win the fight, but I don't like seeing people given the advice to hope for something that is less than guaranteed in many cases. My advice is more on the safe side and is to hope for the best but plan for the worst. Until someone is locked in and has their degree planned out, nothing is truly set in stone and things can (and do) change without notice at TESC and other schools.

[sanantone]

Since the question was about one particular exam, I stand by what I said. I even wrote that there may be an exception, but that this was the published match to that exam. I realize there are many ways around what is listed as a course match, I myself made a ton of strange course changes to make my degree plan, but when people ask about a specific exam the short answer for most of the cases is that for anyone who is hoping for a perfect match, the safest bet is to follow TESC's matches and not to give them hope about how someone else did it in the past. It is sad to see people each week or two who have utilized other users degree plans only to find out that something has changed or that TESC won't code something a certain way. The recent mess with the AAS Capstone is a perfect example, users could have added the degree months earlier and not have gotten locked in to the capstone, but chose to wait for one of many reasons and now what worked for me and many other users no longer works. As you said, the only safe way to proceed is to get something in writing. I try to give good advice and not provide too much hope about changing too many course matches, in many cases is it just easier to take a different exam or course instead of going through the process of fighting a course match. For those who are still planning and not enrolled (which would lock you into a catalog year and into a planned out set of courses), the best advice I can give (in my opinion) is to follow the course matches that are given by the school. Once you enroll you can always use the information from this site to challenge the matches and you'll often win the fight, but I don't like seeing people given the advice to hope for something that is less than guaranteed in many cases. My advice is more on the safe side and is to hope for the best but plan for the worst. Until someone is locked in and has their degree planned out, nothing is truly set in stone and things can (and do) change without notice at TESC and other schools.

The capstone issue is not even related. I actually think it is quite wrong for TESC to require this capstone in the middle of the academic year. These kinds of changes should only be done during catalog changes. It should be illegal for an institution, especially a public institution, to change degree programs in the middle of the academic year. Another issue is that TESC is now requiring this capstone before the capstone course is even available. It is beyond ridiculous. They are potentially holding people back who are ready to graduate.

The way I take it, you are discouraging people from taking the limited number of tests that are available to complete their degrees. Oftentimes, there aren't too many other options. Honestly, most people have not had to put up a huge fuss to get these tests transcribed as social sciences. Actually, it is quite common for Fundamentals of Counseling to be planned as COU and transcribed as PSY automatically when the test score comes in. I really don't see the posts you're talking about week after week. Here's to Your Health does not have the same beaten path as the social science DSSTs. I've even seen plenty of recent posts that said Here's to Your Health will not count as a natural science.

All that is required is a little disclaimer about verifying with advisement, but it should also come with a disclaimer that these tests and courses have been counted as social sciences for many. In that way, you aren't depriving people of valuable information. If you were the only person answering questions on this board, I would have not known about some of the possibilities. To say that AOJ is a human services area and not social science is inaccurate and will confuse people. You are basically giving a blanket statement that will make everyone believe that all AOJ courses are automatically counted as human services and never as social sciences. You did not say this specific exam is human services; you said AOJ is human services and not valid for social science.

[cooperalex2004]

The capstone issue is not even related. I actually think it is quite wrong for TESC to require this capstone in the middle of the academic year. These kinds of changes should only be done during catalog changes. It should be illegal for an institution, especially a public institution, to change degree programs in the middle of the academic year. Another issue is that TESC is now requiring this capstone before the capstone course is even available. It is beyond ridiculous. They are potentially holding people back who are ready to graduate.

The way I take it, you are discouraging people from taking the limited number of tests that are available to complete their degrees. Oftentimes, there aren't too many other options. Honestly, most people have not had to put up a huge fuss to get these tests transcribed as social sciences. Actually, it is quite common for Fundamentals of Counseling to be planned as COU and transcribed as PSY automatically when the test score comes in. I really don't see the posts you're talking about week after week. Here's to Your Health does not have the same beaten path as the social science DSSTs. I've even seen plenty of recent posts that said Here's to Your Health will not count as a natural science.

All that is required is a little disclaimer about verifying with advisement, but it should also come with a disclaimer that these tests and courses have been counted as social sciences for many. In that way, you aren't depriving people of valuable information. If you were the only person answering questions on this board, I would have not known about some of the possibilities. To say that AOJ is a human services area and not social science is inaccurate and will confuse people. You are basically giving a blanket statement that will make everyone believe that all AOJ courses are automatically counted as human services and never as social sciences. You did not say this specific exam is human services; you said AOJ is human services and not valid for social science.

It all goes back to the fact that the question was about a single exam, not about the category. I think you'd even agree that if coded as AOJ-101, then it doesn't fit. By definition AOJ is not a general ed course area since 100% of the courses don't fit, see the degree planning handbook at http://www.tesc.edu/documents/Degree_Pla..._12.09.pdf

That doesn't mean that some of the courses can't fit, it just means that areas outside of the list have either no courses that fit or that only some do. I see what you're saying, these courses are listed as Social Sciences and yet are AOJ courses:

Introduction to Criminal Justice (AOJ-102)
Forensic Science (AOJ-280)
White Collar Crime (AOJ-303)
Victimology and Criminal Behavior (AOJ-381)
Public Policy, Crime and Criminal Justice (AOJ-484)

The bottom line is that this was for AOJ-101. It doesn't sound like we will agree on the way we give advice, but I think that is the best part about this site, you get different viewpoints and experience that together form a lot of great advice for people still seeking their Big 3 degree. The best advice for anyone else reading this is to seek multiple viewpoints when trying to resolve an issue and always follow-up with your school too.

[sanantone]

But you referred to the whole category of AOJ and not the exam. It's not a big deal. I agree that different viewpoints are good.

[cooperalex2004]

But you referred to the whole category of AOJ and not the exam. It's not a big deal. I agree that different viewpoints are good.

I wrote specifically about the exam. Here is what I wrote yesterday at 4:27pm (Central time):

Law Enforcement is by default an "AOJ" course, a human services area not valid for SS or other general ed categories. You can always ask for it to be matched elsewhere, but officially it's not valid for SS. See DANTES (linked to the site's list of DSST course matches).