CIP Codes Warning

[rachel83az]

Ouch, how complicated!

Whatever you decide, I would also suggest seeing if there is some way to file a complaint through military channels. If anyone can get TESU to change its ways, I'd guess that the US military ranks high on that list.

[sarahmac]

Ouch, how complicated!

Whatever you decide, I would also suggest seeing if there is some way to file a complaint through military channels. If anyone can get TESU to change its ways, I'd guess that the US military ranks high on that list.

Unfortunately, the military won't do anything as they didn't pay for it. If he'd been using TA or the GI Bill etc. they might.

Anyone else affected by this who used TA could consider doing so though. It potentially affects half the damn Navy given the whole TESU afloat program.

[SweetSecret]

I noticed the BA liberal studies is not listed, and yet many people here end up finishing with that. I don't really know about any of this, but could that be a problem for people hoping to immigrate or work for the govt/military with that degree? Should we stop recommending it to people?

[rachel83az]

BALS isn't really a good choice for immigrants or government workers anyway. Both immigration and government/military will want a subject degree of some kind (exactly which kind will depend on the specific scenario). It's a check-the-box degree that works for an American who has no ambitions to work in the government or abroad. It's not really valid elsewhere, IMO, no matter where it comes from.

99% sure that BALS is a BA Humanities, according to the CIP code page, though. Maybe a BA Social Sciences?

[spohara]

BALS isn't really a good choice for immigrants or government workers anyway. Both immigration and government/military will want a subject degree of some kind (exactly which kind will depend on the specific scenario). It's a check-the-box degree that works for an American who has no ambitions to work in the government or abroad. It's not really valid elsewhere, IMO, no matter where it comes from.

99% sure that BALS is a BA Humanities, according to the CIP code page, though. Maybe a BA Social Sciences?

I wouldn't blanketly say that BALS is not a good option for government.  I'd like to see more information on how CIP applies to government.  The way most government job series are written say a bachelors degree in "x"  OR a bachelors degree with at least 24 hours in "X,Y,Z" courses equivalent to a major in the subject.  I've yet to see CIP codes mentioned in any announcement or job series writeup.  This may be an agency specific thing, or for very limited job series (for example, engineering degree requirements often must be ABET).  I can also attest to the fact that for series' that don't require a degree, it is still looked upon very favorably by hiring managers.

[CanICode]

Man, what is TESU doing lately? First the reclassification of BSBA degrees where they change their names and don't allow you to stack them, and now the CIP codes are wrong? This is getting out of hand. Just give the right codes and allow normal degree stacking. It is not that difficult. Making it so degrees may not work in government when such a large percentage of students are military just seems like one of the most short sighted decisions possible.

Someone said this is almost fraudulent. It isn't almost, it IS fraudulent. You cannot sell someone a math BA and it not be a math BA. What kind of nonsense is that? TESU needs to get this in order. They are gonna get sued by some of these military guys down the road.

CIP codes only impact my CIS degree but it's okay for me because I have the BACS but man, this is crazy.

Did they not get accreditation for those codes? That is the only thing that makes sense to me.

[AllThose299s]

Man, what is TESU doing lately? First the reclassification of BSBA degrees where they change their names and don't allow you to stack them, and now the CIP codes are wrong? This is getting out of hand. Just give the right codes and allow normal degree stacking. It is not that difficult. Making it so degrees may not work in government when such a large percentage of students are military just seems like one of the most short sighted decisions possible.

Someone said this is almost fraudulent. It isn't almost, it IS fraudulent. You cannot sell someone a math BA and it not be a math BA. What kind of nonsense is that? TESU needs to get this in order. They are gonna get sued by some of these military guys down the road.

CIP codes only impact my CIS degree but it's okay for me because I have the BACS but man, this is crazy.

Did they not get accreditation for those codes? That is the only thing that makes sense to me.

This has been somewhat on my mind for the last few weeks—with the recent reclassification of BSBA degrees & how for example the change of ASNSM is now an AS (I welcome this change just because the ASNSM is a bit of a tongue twister).

I'm technically on the 2022 catalog & within My Progress it states how my degree is AS in Natural Sciences & Math, major being mathematics & the department being natural sciences. If I preview how my credits would be applied to the 2024 catalog, for example the AS - it states how it is an associate in science, major mathematics, department natural sciences. Looking at My Progress preview for a BA in Mathematics, states the degree being Bachelor of Arts, major mathematics, department natural sciences. 

This thread covered how the CIS degree doesn't technically exist in programmatic terms & the CIP code is the same as the BSBA, which looking at My Progress for the BS in CIS shows the department being Business Administration. We know that Computer Science is correct CIP wise (11.0701) & looking at it within My Progress it states, "Bachelor of Arts degree, Major computer science, Department computer science." With the CIP code of a BA in Math being a multidisciplinary biological sciences degree (30.XX series), and how my progress stating it's by the Natural Sciences department—I know correlation does not imply causation but hear me out—it does make sense in a twisted way. 

I mean if I asked someone "would they be surprised if a certain degree offered by the Natural Sciences department was listed as a multidisciplinary biological sciences degree?" chances are they wouldn't. Obviously the fact that the BA in Math is listed as a multidisciplinary biological sciences degree is a disappointment and honestly if someone were to ask me that question had I earned the BA in math—I would probably punch them.

So, I noticed within My Progress how the "View a New Program" included 2 Bachelors Computer Sciences... One of them listed by the computer science department... and this is what has been on my mind recently... the other bachelor's in computer science I can access within MyProgress is my dual major of Computer Science & Art - with the department being listed as Natural Sciences. Now I'm wondering if I continue down this path and go for a dual major if it would result in the CIP code being issued as a multidisciplinary biological science degree instead of the Computer Science degree.

[bjcheung77]

If you're interested in searching for other institutions, it's just this here: Link: https://nces.ed.gov/collegenavigator/

[jch]

I made an interesting discovery today about TESU's CIP Code strategy.
While TESU does not disclose or discuss anything about CIP Codes in any student- or public-facing documentation which I am aware of, CIP issues are a subject of internal discussion and concern. Because TESU is a state university, many of those discussions are public record. See, for example, the minutes of the March 11th 2022 Board of Trustees meeting (the relevant passages are on page 8 onwards): https://campussuite-storage.s3.amazonaws...031122.pdf
The board notes that the University utilized a strategy to expand academic programs and areas of study through generic CIP Codes. However, the University realized that this approach comes with significant limitations compared to discipline-specific classifications. I think this evidence shows that the University knew that it did something wrong, furthering the claims and fears in this thread.
There are probably more documents about this issue which can be obtained from TESU and/or the NJ OSHE using New Jersey's OPRA law.

[bjcheung77]

Most institutions would want their CIP codes correctly entered in, I think some institutions, if not many, would have issues with theirs as well... The system is just a little complex as there are fields that are overlapping with requirements and so on... It's great that TESU has acknowledged this and is working towards a fix probably...