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+--- Thread: CIP Codes Warning (/Thread-CIP-Codes-Warning)
CIP Codes Warning - sarahmac - 09-04-2023
For most people this post doesn't apply, or isn't important, and you can disregard.
However, if you are planning on using a TESU degree for migration, government work, or the military, check the CIP code for your degree is what you expect it to be. TESU has some funky stuff going on with their CIP codes.
This was an unfortunate way to discover that the BA Math is technically registered with the state of NJ as a multidisciplinary biological sciences degree (30.XX series). Not a 27.XX series math degree. You'd never have seen it coming because they are reporting a 27.XX series bachelor in federal govt statistics. Not sure what that is, but it isn't the BA Math. My guess is BS Data Science.
BSBA CIS is not registered at all, and likely falls under general management. So it is not technically a tech/information science degree at all.
A lot of the BS majors (including IT, Cloud, Electrical Engineering etc.) are also 30.XX multidisciplinary under "Applied Science & Technology". For example, Electronics Systems Engineering Technology should have a CIP of 15.0303. It does not.
For most people this won't matter, but federal employment and the military base your eligibility for certain jobs given your degree off the CIP code--not the degree title/name. If the degree doesn't have the right CIP, for all intents and purposes you don't have it. Same for immigration purposes (i.e. for HB1 you need to have a degree in your field of work).
They heavily market some of these to military folks so it's particularly disappointing to know this is going on. Most of the ones they push people toward are functionally near useless as far as military employment is concerned, because they are not actually technical or STEM degrees based on the CIP.
Edit: And for those who clicked on this out of interest and are now worried about WGU/UMPI etc. you're all in the clear, I checked. There's just something weird going on with TESU in particular.
RE: CIP Codes Warning - mariobros1985 - 09-05-2023
(09-04-2023, 06:11 PM)sarahmac Wrote: For most people this post doesn't apply, or isn't important, and you can disregard.Hmm, that looks interesting as I'm thinking of working for the government in the future. Also, by migration purposes, you mean to the US, right?
However, if you are planning on using a TESU degree for migration, government work, or the military, check the CIP code for your degree is what you expect it to be. TESU has some funky stuff going on with their CIP codes.
This was an unfortunate way to discover that the BA Math is technically registered with the state of NJ as a multidisciplinary biological sciences degree (30.XX series). Not a 27.XX series math degree. You'd never have seen it coming because they are reporting a 27.XX series bachelor in federal govt statistics. Not sure what that is, but it isn't the BA Math. My guess is BS Data Science.
BSBA CIS is not registered at all, and likely falls under general management. So it is not technically a tech/information science degree at all.
A lot of the BS majors (including IT, Cloud, Electrical Engineering etc.) are also 30.XX multidisciplinary under "Applied Science & Technology". For example, Electronics Systems Engineering Technology should have a CIP of 15.0303. It does not.
For most people this won't matter, but federal employment and the military base your eligibility for certain jobs given your degree off the CIP code--not the degree title/name. If the degree doesn't have the right CIP, for all intents and purposes you don't have it. Same for immigration purposes (i.e. for HB1 you need to have a degree in your field of work).
They heavily market some of these to military folks so it's particularly disappointing to know this is going on. Most of the ones they push people toward are functionally near useless as far as military employment is concerned, because they are not actually technical or STEM degrees based on the CIP.
Edit: And for those who clicked on this out of interest and are now worried about WGU/UMPI etc. you're all in the clear, I checked. There's just something weird going on with TESU in particular.
I'm doing the BA Computer Science from TESU and it has a CIP of 11.0701. It seems to fall under Computer and Information Sciences and Support Services. Would you say that this one is safe or should it fall under another category like the 30.0801 CIP under the 30.XX category?
Thanks for the info anyway!
RE: CIP Codes Warning - rachel83az - 09-05-2023
Oh, this is very important information for the people who come here asking for advice about degrees for immigration. How do you see what the CIP code for a given degree even is? I had no idea this was a possibility.
RE: CIP Codes Warning - mariobros1985 - 09-05-2023
(09-05-2023, 03:07 AM)rachel83az Wrote: Oh, this is very important information for the people who come here asking for advice about degrees for immigration. How do you see what the CIP code for a given degree even is? I had no idea this was a possibility.
For the CIP codes, I believe user sarahmac included TESU's CIP codes as a hyperlink. I'll link it directly anyway: https://www.state.nj.us/highereducation/Program_Inventory/DegreeListings/T_Edison.htm
I don't think all the degrees are specifically mentioned, but some of them might be included as part of a group (e.g. the BA Math degree might be part of the "BA Natural Sciences and Mathematics" degree group on the list I mentioned above).
RE: CIP Codes Warning - sarahmac - 09-05-2023
(09-05-2023, 03:18 AM)mariobros1985 Wrote:(09-05-2023, 03:07 AM)rachel83az Wrote: Oh, this is very important information for the people who come here asking for advice about degrees for immigration. How do you see what the CIP code for a given degree even is? I had no idea this was a possibility.
For the CIP codes, I believe user sarahmac included TESU's CIP codes as a hyperlink. I'll link it directly anyway: https://www.state.nj.us/highereducation/Program_Inventory/DegreeListings/T_Edison.htm
I don't think all the degrees are specifically mentioned, but some of them might be included as part of a group (e.g. the BA Math degree might be part of the "BA Natural Sciences and Mathematics" degree group on the list I mentioned above).
They aren't individually mentioned no, which is very much the point. They should be. Unfortunately, TESU has been mass registering the degrees as various forms of multidisciplinary studies.
(09-05-2023, 02:52 AM)mariobros1985 Wrote:(09-04-2023, 06:11 PM)sarahmac Wrote: For most people this post doesn't apply, or isn't important, and you can disregard.Hmm, that looks interesting as I'm thinking of working for the government in the future. Also, by migration purposes, you mean to the US, right?
However, if you are planning on using a TESU degree for migration, government work, or the military, check the CIP code for your degree is what you expect it to be. TESU has some funky stuff going on with their CIP codes.
This was an unfortunate way to discover that the BA Math is technically registered with the state of NJ as a multidisciplinary biological sciences degree (30.XX series). Not a 27.XX series math degree. You'd never have seen it coming because they are reporting a 27.XX series bachelor in federal govt statistics. Not sure what that is, but it isn't the BA Math. My guess is BS Data Science.
BSBA CIS is not registered at all, and likely falls under general management. So it is not technically a tech/information science degree at all.
A lot of the BS majors (including IT, Cloud, Electrical Engineering etc.) are also 30.XX multidisciplinary under "Applied Science & Technology". For example, Electronics Systems Engineering Technology should have a CIP of 15.0303. It does not.
For most people this won't matter, but federal employment and the military base your eligibility for certain jobs given your degree off the CIP code--not the degree title/name. If the degree doesn't have the right CIP, for all intents and purposes you don't have it. Same for immigration purposes (i.e. for HB1 you need to have a degree in your field of work).
They heavily market some of these to military folks so it's particularly disappointing to know this is going on. Most of the ones they push people toward are functionally near useless as far as military employment is concerned, because they are not actually technical or STEM degrees based on the CIP.
Edit: And for those who clicked on this out of interest and are now worried about WGU/UMPI etc. you're all in the clear, I checked. There's just something weird going on with TESU in particular.
I'm doing the BA Computer Science from TESU and it has a CIP of 11.0701. It seems to fall under Computer and Information Sciences and Support Services. Would you say that this one is safe or should it fall under another category like the 30.0801 CIP under the 30.XX category?
Thanks for the info anyway!
Yes, migration to the US. A lot of people come to these boards are looking for degrees to help with migration. When determining visa eligibility and field of study-job match the federal govt uses the CIP, so it very much matters.
BA Comp Sci has exactly the code it needs. It is one of the few--fortunately for you, you're in the clear!
RE: CIP Codes Warning - sarahmac - 09-05-2023
(09-05-2023, 03:07 AM)rachel83az Wrote: Oh, this is very important information for the people who come here asking for advice about degrees for immigration. How do you see what the CIP code for a given degree even is? I had no idea this was a possibility.
Update: confirmation from registrar. BSBA CIS doesn't technically exist in programmatic terms. It has the same CIP code as the basic BSBA and is a general business degree. The CIS concentration is an "in name only" thing.
Given the other techie-type degrees are all coded as multidisciplinary studies, anyone coming to the forum looking for STEM-type degrees for migration/military/fed employment purposes would likely need to do BA Comp Sci.
Honestly, I'm mad about this. I feel misled. We've wasted over a year on my partner's stuff at TESU, he's only a couple classes away from finishing the BA Math and BSBA CIS. Except it's not actually a BA Math legally. They've just named it that, for... fun?
RE: CIP Codes Warning - spohara - 09-05-2023
I'm curious where CIP codes are used in government. I've never heard of the requirement. Fortunately I did the CS degree, but I'm pretty sure for a 1560 series (my original intention with it) it would count regardless of the CIP code because of the way the series is written. Is it organization specific or series specific?
CIP Codes Warning - jch - 09-05-2023
I'm upset about this issue as well. TESU tells prospective students one thing on its website, but then paints a vastly different picture when talking to the state. For anyone who took out federal student loans to attend TESU, you could think about making a borrower's defense claim on misrepresentation grounds.
RE: CIP Codes Warning - rachel83az - 09-06-2023
(09-05-2023, 09:15 AM)sarahmac Wrote:(09-05-2023, 03:07 AM)rachel83az Wrote: Oh, this is very important information for the people who come here asking for advice about degrees for immigration. How do you see what the CIP code for a given degree even is? I had no idea this was a possibility.
Update: confirmation from registrar. BSBA CIS doesn't technically exist in programmatic terms. It has the same CIP code as the basic BSBA and is a general business degree. The CIS concentration is an "in name only" thing.
Given the other techie-type degrees are all coded as multidisciplinary studies, anyone coming to the forum looking for STEM-type degrees for migration/military/fed employment purposes would likely need to do BA Comp Sci.
How painful! And infuriating. It definitely sounds at least marginally fraudulent. Looking at the list, I just... wow.
No Math. No History. Biology is just... generic science, I guess? (Doesn't bode well for students who might want to continue to a Biology Master's abroad.) The AS Computer Science is just a generic Multi-/Interdisciplinary Studies degree, I guess? (The ASNSM is just generic sciences, which I kind of expected, TBH.)
For a lot of students here, probably none of this matters. But there are plenty of international students (or students who hope to move abroad) for whom this matters a lot. I wonder if this is why TESU essentially has "????" in Anabin.
(09-05-2023, 09:15 AM)sarahmac Wrote: Honestly, I'm mad about this. I feel misled. We've wasted over a year on my partner's stuff at TESU, he's only a couple classes away from finishing the BA Math and BSBA CIS. Except it's not actually a BA Math legally. They've just named it that, for... fun?
Have you decided what you're going to do? Maybe add a BACS to the BA Math? It adds more time, but at least it is what it says on the tin. Otherwise, that's just... disheartening.
RE: CIP Codes Warning - sarahmac - 09-06-2023
(09-06-2023, 04:58 AM)rachel83az Wrote:(09-05-2023, 09:15 AM)sarahmac Wrote:(09-05-2023, 03:07 AM)rachel83az Wrote: Oh, this is very important information for the people who come here asking for advice about degrees for immigration. How do you see what the CIP code for a given degree even is? I had no idea this was a possibility.
Update: confirmation from registrar. BSBA CIS doesn't technically exist in programmatic terms. It has the same CIP code as the basic BSBA and is a general business degree. The CIS concentration is an "in name only" thing.
Given the other techie-type degrees are all coded as multidisciplinary studies, anyone coming to the forum looking for STEM-type degrees for migration/military/fed employment purposes would likely need to do BA Comp Sci.
How painful! And infuriating. It definitely sounds at least marginally fraudulent. Looking at the list, I just... wow.
No Math. No History. Biology is just... generic science, I guess? (Doesn't bode well for students who might want to continue to a Biology Master's abroad.) The AS Computer Science is just a generic Multi-/Interdisciplinary Studies degree, I guess? (The ASNSM is just generic sciences, which I kind of expected, TBH.)
For a lot of students here, probably none of this matters. But there are plenty of international students (or students who hope to move abroad) for whom this matters a lot. I wonder if this is why TESU essentially has "????" in Anabin.
(09-05-2023, 09:15 AM)sarahmac Wrote: Honestly, I'm mad about this. I feel misled. We've wasted over a year on my partner's stuff at TESU, he's only a couple classes away from finishing the BA Math and BSBA CIS. Except it's not actually a BA Math legally. They've just named it that, for... fun?
Have you decided what you're going to do? Maybe add a BACS to the BA Math? It adds more time, but at least it is what it says on the tin. Otherwise, that's just... disheartening.
We haven't decided.
His BA at TESU is Math and Environmental Studies. The Environmental Studies is all filled out already. He is a geography dude by trade (GIS analyst) and getting that was important to him. The whole point of the dual BA was to get into a good Spatial Data Science / Climate Analytics type masters.
So now we have no idea what to do. Doing BA CS and Math means dropping Env Studies. Swapping CS for Math means not getting the Math degree he wanted and has put so much effort into.
It is super disheartening, and there is no way to "win" here.
We have come up with a few alt options:
1) Keeping everything as it is now at TESU but doing an additional CUNY SPS BS Info Systems. He has all the credits for this, he'd only need to do the mando 15 on a flat rate term. It has the right CIP as a comp and info sciences degree.
On the first option, it'd be an additional 3.8k but we're paying less than we expected for TESU because the free TECEPS count for residency for military. So TESU is only costing 2250 total for the BSBA/BA capstones plus Calc 3 if we can't find it elsewhere.
2) Switching the BA to CS and Math at TESU to get that CS CIP, and then working out with UMPI if you can add a second major not normally offered through Your Pace via transfer credit (the way you can a minor) to pull off Env Sci.
On the second option, he already has all the credits for their Env Sci major bc he started off his college journey at a brick and mortar doing nuclear chemistry and geosciences.
Jessica is currently looking into this with the dean and registrar to see if its possible. If they were two different degrees you'd need to meet the reqs for each separately, and it so it wouldn't be. But they aren't. Technically it would be one BA.
The way UMPI degrees work is dual majors are one degree with two areas, where one is the primary. So BA History & Politics and BS Env Sci would come together as BA History & Politics and Env Sci, with H&P as the primary.
So theoretically, you only need to meet the overall BA requirements.. right? The thing is, they don't know. Apparently nobody has asked before and the answer was not immediately obvious to them.