Apprenticeship is the new unknown calling for some!

[ss20ts]

My son is looking at HVAC right now - there's a company here that pays $15/hr while you're training/learning/apprenticing for 3 months, and then he'll be making more than $20/hr once he's done with that.

You can't beat that with a stick!  (He's just about to turn 18 and graduate from HS).

Sure you can. Have you ever heard Willie Nelson’s song Mamas Don’t let your babies grow up to be cowboys ? If he’s got the aptitude push him to go to college, even if it means making less money. Money isn’t everything.  He may end up doing HVAC and it’s okay if he does. But unless he just absolutely hates school don’t let him settle for HVAC at 17 years old.  Keep his sights high. 
HVAC just like all trade jobs is tough and shouldn’t be glamorized just because the money is good. You’re on call 24/7 and never home. Talk to some of these guys. I bet they don’t recommend their kids to follow in their footsteps. 

I have many friends And family in the trades. It’s a whole lot harder than many might think.

I would say look to the future. Get the apprenticeship but also get some business and managerial skills so that you can be promoted or run your own company. A degree may or may not be the best approach, but getting some business skills would be a way to move forward if his body ever tells him you can't physically do this anymore which is what happens to many in the trades.

[uncapentin]

Trust me. NOBODY likes crawling around in 120 degree attics. Or outside When it’s 10 below  working on a heat pump.
I didn’t say these were bad jobs. They are good paying jobs If you want to recommend that for your child Then so be it. I do call it settling for a 17 year old that can do anything they set their minds to.

  I'd have to disagree, there are people who like the challenges that come with the trades. HVAC takes a great deal of thought and a knowledge base that helps in other trades. Do they always love ending up super cold or hot ? Probably not, but I don't always enjoy staring at numbers all day from a chair at a desk. Having the ambition to pursue HVAC at 17 is awesome and should be applauded, not deemed "settling for." That mind set being spread to young people is what has gotten us to the place we are now, with a deficit of people in the trades. It's not some slug job that is a dead end. My nephew, who went to CC for HVAC, got his cert for...Freon (I think that's what it is...) BUT did not finish the associate degree. It was a challenge for him to slog through some of the classes when his mind is geared for hands on work. He's worked in the HVAC off and on all along, but it led to a job as an apartment maintenance tech and he now is a maintenance engineer at a large hotel making more than most people he knows that have degrees and have worked more than 10 years. He did this in under 6-7 years. A degree of some sort might be nice to frame on the wall, but isn't a necessity for skilled people who learn with their hands.
  Another example : My neighbor ( we'll call him Fred ) is 84 and quit school in the 9th grade to help his family on their small farm because his father was getting on in years. His brother went to college.  ( We'll call him Bob) Fred went on to work for the state in the heavy equipment maintenance division, later ended up with the city taking care of the grounds, building maintenance and turf at the large coliseums, was sought out by the state to come back to their equipment division, retired from the state and city, came out of retirement to work with the city again for 5 years, was asked to join the teaching faculty at a nearby community college in the mechanic classes and asked to work for a company that restores old tractors. He can make any part or piece for a tractor or other heavy equipment from scrap laying around and can figure out how to build or create anything he wants to. He can tear apart and put back together anything that runs, knows electrical, HVAC, plumbing and is known as one of the best welders in our area, with the ability to weld things together that are not supposed to be able to be done. Bob on the other hand, got his 4 yr degree, worked a job and retired. Having grown up on the farm, he too had picked up a few skills but wasn't sought after for any of his knowledge. He always went to Fred for help with anything he needed. There was a stretch of time where Fred was made to feel like a social outcast because he had quit school. Bob's degree was lauded as the Hail Mary. The reality however is that Fred was by far, more successful and hands down is the most intelligent person I know. I believe he is something of a genius and clearly others thought so too or he wouldn't have been sought out so often. He would have NEVER been able to get through a degree program. Why? He's likely dyslexic and has always had trouble reading. He can read a letter well enough and for some reason he can't explain, can read the Old Testament, but forget reading instructions or a textbook. No dice. 
  The loan officer at my bank told me another story. ( His daughter has been a college student for 7 years, having changed her mind about her major several times. I'm certain they are piling on the debt. ) Anyway, he had a young man, 18, show up one day right after graduating high school , asking for a large loan for the purchase of a work van. His mom was with him to co-sign the loan. The banker kept his composure, but inwardly wondered what in the world this kid thought, asking for a large loan at 18. Turns out the kid had made $45,000 part time the year before, working as an appliance repair helper and doing simple repairs on the side. He was getting his cert for the refrigerant, was going to work with the appliance repair company and have his own side business. Needless to say, the boy got the loan and the banker was left feeling amazed. He later told his daughter the money train was over, she had to finish school, get off the stick and find a job. 
  I point these stories out because anyone with ambition should be applauded. This kid going into HVAC may end up owning a business that manufactures the next best HVAC unit that saves a ton of energy. He may invent it. He may become the HVAC architect that makes hospital units more efficient. He may go on to teach HVAC to newer up and coming entrepreneurs. We short change people when we put them in a box, and this forum is not full of square boxes.
  While getting an associate in business or even a bachelors in business might be great for some and work in their favor, as a long time business owner who may end up with a degree in business, it is hardly necessary for entrepreneurs. Accounting programs do all the work for you and accountants or bookkeepers take care of the rest. I have yet to learn anything in the gen eds or business classes I've taken that are actually utilized in our business practices. Managerial Theories may help in multi-billion dollar companies but they really don't amount to much for the average small business.
  If a 17 yr old is intrigued by, excited by and is driven to become a HVAC technician, then bravo to him. He's miles ahead of many of his counterparts who have no clue what they're doing or want to do with their lives at the moment.

[Pats20]

Trust me. NOBODY likes crawling around in 120 degree attics. Or outside When it’s 10 below  working on a heat pump.
I didn’t say these were bad jobs. They are good paying jobs If you want to recommend that for your child Then so be it. I do call it settling for a 17 year old that can do anything they set their minds to.

  I'd have to disagree, there are people who like the challenges that come with the trades. HVAC takes a great deal of thought and a knowledge base that helps in other trades. Do they always love ending up super cold or hot ? Probably not, but I don't always enjoy staring at numbers all day from a chair at a desk. Having the ambition to pursue HVAC at 17 is awesome and should be applauded, not deemed "settling for." That mind set being spread to young people is what has gotten us to the place we are now, with a deficit of people in the trades. It's not some slug job that is a dead end. My nephew, who went to CC for HVAC, got his cert for...Freon (I think that's what it is...) BUT did not finish the associate degree. It was a challenge for him to slog through some of the classes when his mind is geared for hands on work. He's worked in the HVAC off and on all along, but it led to a job as an apartment maintenance tech and he now is a maintenance engineer at a large hotel making more than most people he knows that have degrees and have worked more than 10 years. He did this in under 6-7 years. A degree of some sort might be nice to frame on the wall, but isn't a necessity for skilled people who learn with their hands.
  Another example : My neighbor ( we'll call him Fred ) is 84 and quit school in the 9th grade to help his family on their small farm because his father was getting on in years. His brother went to college.  ( We'll call him Bob) Fred went on to work for the state in the heavy equipment maintenance division, later ended up with the city taking care of the grounds, building maintenance and turf at the large coliseums, was sought out by the state to come back to their equipment division, retired from the state and city, came out of retirement to work with the city again for 5 years, was asked to join the teaching faculty at a nearby community college in the mechanic classes and asked to work for a company that restores old tractors. He can make any part or piece for a tractor or other heavy equipment from scrap laying around and can figure out how to build or create anything he wants to. He can tear apart and put back together anything that runs, knows electrical, HVAC, plumbing and is known as one of the best welders in our area, with the ability to weld things together that are not supposed to be able to be done. Bob on the other hand, got his 4 yr degree, worked a job and retired. Having grown up on the farm, he too had picked up a few skills but wasn't sought after for any of his knowledge. He always went to Fred for help with anything he needed. There was a stretch of time where Fred was made to feel like a social outcast because he had quit school. Bob's degree was lauded as the Hail Mary. The reality however is that Fred was by far, more successful and hands down is the most intelligent person I know. I believe he is something of a genius and clearly others thought so too or he wouldn't have been sought out so often. He would have NEVER been able to get through a degree program. Why? He's likely dyslexic and has always had trouble reading. He can read a letter well enough and for some reason he can't explain, can read the Old Testament, but forget reading instructions or a textbook. No dice. 
  The loan officer at my bank told me another story. ( His daughter has been a college student for 7 years, having changed her mind about her major several times. I'm certain they are piling on the debt. ) Anyway, he had a young man, 18, show up one day right after graduating high school , asking for a large loan for the purchase of a work van. His mom was with him to co-sign the loan. The banker kept his composure, but inwardly wondered what in the world this kid thought, asking for a large loan at 18. Turns out the kid had made $45,000 part time the year before, working as an appliance repair helper and doing simple repairs on the side. He was getting his cert for the refrigerant, was going to work with the appliance repair company and have his own side business. Needless to say, the boy got the loan and the banker was left feeling amazed. He later told his daughter the money train was over, she had to finish school, get off the stick and find a job. 
  I point these stories out because anyone with ambition should be applauded. This kid going into HVAC may end up owning a business that manufactures the next best HVAC unit that saves a ton of energy. He may invent it. He may become the HVAC architect that makes hospital units more efficient. He may go on to teach HVAC to newer up and coming entrepreneurs. We short change people when we put them in a box, and this forum is not full of square boxes.
  While getting an associate in business or even a bachelors in business might be great for some and work in their favor, as a long time business owner who may end up with a degree in business, it is hardly necessary for entrepreneurs. Accounting programs do all the work for you and accountants or bookkeepers take care of the rest. I have yet to learn anything in the gen eds or business classes I've taken that are actually utilized in our business practices. Managerial Theories may help in multi-billion dollar companies but they really don't amount to much for the average small business.
  If a 17 yr old is intrigued by, excited by and is driven to become a HVAC technician, then bravo to him. He's miles ahead of many of his counterparts who have no clue what they're doing or want to do with their lives at the moment.

Fair enough.

[dfrecore]

Trust me. NOBODY likes crawling around in 120 degree attics. Or outside When it’s 10 below  working on a heat pump.
I didn’t say these were bad jobs. They are good paying jobs If you want to recommend that for your child Then so be it. I do call it settling for a 17 year old that can do anything they set their minds to.

PLENTY of people like working in 120 degree attics or 10 below on heat pumps.  Just because YOU may not doesn't mean that other people don't absolutely love doing stuff like this.  My dad was a lineman for 30 years - he worked outside every day of his life, no matter the weather, and loved it.  He was offered promotions all the time, and never accepted one, because the thought of working inside would have sucked his soul from his body.  I know MANY people in the trades who wouldn't consider doing anything else unless they absolutely had to. 

As for my son, his sights are set very high for his age.  His friends are either working crappy fast food jobs, or are going to college with the thought that they may get a decent job in 4+ years when they get out - and that's assuming that they will graduate, which statistics show that most won't (less than 50%).  He will have a decent job in 3 months, and be making much more than they are by the time they all start looking for jobs.

Thats's not to say that he is going to do this forever, or that he doesn't plan on changing careers at some point in his life.  But to assume that if he DOES stay in the trades, that he is "settling" for less than someone else is just ridiculous.  If he's happy, then I'm happy for him.  If he comes to me someday and says he's thinking of doing something else, I'll offer to help in any way I can.  If he wants to take classes in business, great, I can help him with that too.  Whatever he wants to do is fine.

[Alpha]

Many people are disenchanted with the prospect of going to college.  It's not a statement about their capabilities.  It's a statement of the unattractiveness of the outcome.  College debt and unfulfilling employment.  Not everyone is suited to be an Accountant or a Programmer.  Plus, I generally think it's good to have some of those skills to help with day to day problems that come up.  I'm reminded of an old film comedy where a character calls an Electrician to change a lightbulb.  I have an interest in electrical power generation and I think someone could parlay those skills into a very nice career if they had some ambition to do so.

[Pats20]

Trust me. NOBODY likes crawling around in 120 degree attics. Or outside When it’s 10 below  working on a heat pump.
I didn’t say these were bad jobs. They are good paying jobs If you want to recommend that for your child Then so be it. I do call it settling for a 17 year old that can do anything they set their minds to.

PLENTY of people like working in 120 degree attics or 10 below on heat pumps.  Just because YOU may not doesn't mean that other people don't absolutely love doing stuff like this.  My dad was a lineman for 30 years - he worked outside every day of his life, no matter the weather, and loved it.  He was offered promotions all the time, and never accepted one, because the thought of working inside would have sucked his soul from his body.  I know MANY people in the trades who wouldn't consider doing anything else unless they absolutely had to. 

As for my son, his sights are set very high for his age.  His friends are either working crappy fast food jobs, or are going to college with the thought that they may get a decent job in 4+ years when they get out - and that's assuming that they will graduate, which statistics show that most won't (less than 50%).  He will have a decent job in 3 months, and be making much more than they are by the time they all start looking for jobs.

Thats's not to say that he is going to do this forever, or that he doesn't plan on changing careers at some point in his life.  But to assume that if he DOES stay in the trades, that he is "settling" for less than someone else is just ridiculous.  If he's happy, then I'm happy for him.  If he comes to me someday and says he's thinking of doing something else, I'll offer to help in any way I can.  If he wants to take classes in business, great, I can help him with that too.  Whatever he wants to do is fine.

I didn’t mean any disrespect. I wish your son nothing but success and happiness. I have nothing but respect for these men and women. I’ve said that in just about every post. One of my lifelong best friend is a commercial hvac / refrigeration supervisor. He does very well. I have a brother who’s a successful electrician who owns his own company. I personally work with hvac / commercial refrigeration , maintenance techs , electricians, everyday. I respect and admire them all.

[dfrecore]

Trust me. NOBODY likes crawling around in 120 degree attics. Or outside When it’s 10 below  working on a heat pump.
I didn’t say these were bad jobs. They are good paying jobs If you want to recommend that for your child Then so be it. I do call it settling for a 17 year old that can do anything they set their minds to.

PLENTY of people like working in 120 degree attics or 10 below on heat pumps.  Just because YOU may not doesn't mean that other people don't absolutely love doing stuff like this.  My dad was a lineman for 30 years - he worked outside every day of his life, no matter the weather, and loved it.  He was offered promotions all the time, and never accepted one, because the thought of working inside would have sucked his soul from his body.  I know MANY people in the trades who wouldn't consider doing anything else unless they absolutely had to. 

As for my son, his sights are set very high for his age.  His friends are either working crappy fast food jobs, or are going to college with the thought that they may get a decent job in 4+ years when they get out - and that's assuming that they will graduate, which statistics show that most won't (less than 50%).  He will have a decent job in 3 months, and be making much more than they are by the time they all start looking for jobs.

Thats's not to say that he is going to do this forever, or that he doesn't plan on changing careers at some point in his life.  But to assume that if he DOES stay in the trades, that he is "settling" for less than someone else is just ridiculous.  If he's happy, then I'm happy for him.  If he comes to me someday and says he's thinking of doing something else, I'll offer to help in any way I can.  If he wants to take classes in business, great, I can help him with that too.  Whatever he wants to do is fine.

I didn’t mean any disrespect. I wish your son nothing but success and happiness. I have nothing but respect for these men and women. I’ve said that in just about every post. One of my lifelong best friend is a commercial hvac / refrigeration supervisor. He does very well. I have a brother who’s a successful electrician who owns his own company. I personally work with hvac / commercial refrigeration , maintenance techs , electricians, everyday. I respect and admire them all.

When you say that someone's settling, you are totally meaning disrespect.  And yes, he hates school.  I'm THRILLED that he's trying this, rather than going the traditional route.  I don't expect that he'll do it forever, but he's not settling, and he'll learn a lot about life and the trades and hard work whatever the outcome may be.

[Pats20]

Many people are disenchanted with the prospect of going to college.  It's not a statement about their capabilities.  It's a statement of the unattractiveness of the outcome.  College debt and unfulfilling employment.  Not everyone is suited to be an Accountant or a Programmer.  Plus, I generally think it's good to have some of those skills to help with day to day problems that come up.  I'm reminded of an old film comedy where a character calls an Electrician to change a lightbulb.  I have an interest in electrical power generation and I think someone could parlay those skills into a very nice career if they had some ambition to do so.

I absolutely agree with you. College isn’t for everyone although Most of these trades require schooling which honestly is probably more difficult than college. My brother would work everyday learning the hands on and then go to school 3 nights a week learning the technical aspects of it for 5 years. My grandfather the same thing. Those  guys were/are Two of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met. 
I also work with a master electrician who also has a degree in biology. Very intelligent man. 

These guys make very nice livings.  There’s a reason there’s a shortage. The schooling is hard and the job Is very tough and demanding. That’s why they make $40, $50, $60+ Some $100 per hour. For many years my grandfather left out on Monday morning and got home Friday evening. Hats off to all of them.

[uncapentin]

Many people are disenchanted with the prospect of going to college.  It's not a statement about their capabilities.  It's a statement of the unattractiveness of the outcome.  College debt and unfulfilling employment.  Not everyone is suited to be an Accountant or a Programmer.  Plus, I generally think it's good to have some of those skills to help with day to day problems that come up.  I'm reminded of an old film comedy where a character calls an Electrician to change a lightbulb.  I have an interest in electrical power generation and I think someone could parlay those skills into a very nice career if they had some ambition to do so.

I absolutely agree with you. College isn’t for everyone although Most of these trades require schooling. My brother would work everyday learning the hands on and then go to school 3 nights a week learning the technical aspects of it for 5 years. My grandfather the same thing. Those  guys were/are Two of the most intelligent people I’ve ever met. 
I also work with a master electrician who also has a degree in biology. Very intelligent man. 

These guys make very nice livings.  There’s a reason there’s a shortage. The schooling is hard and the job Is very tough and demanding. That’s why they make $40, $50, $60+ Some $100 per hour. For many years my grandfather left out on Monday morning and got home Friday evening. Hats off to all of them.

 Where do you live that most of those trades require a lot of schooling ? That's not a norm across the states I'm pretty sure.

[rachel83az]

It depends on what trade you're going into. If you want to be an electrician, I think in most places it's a pretty intensive 3-6 month course + a 2-3 year apprenticeship for you to be able to pass the exam(s) to become a licensed electrician. Some welders also require more study than just a basic apprenticeship program. For instance, underwater welding or welding in hazardous situations. Plumbing can be almost as complicated as electrical work.

Other trades, like working as an HVAC technician, are a short 3-6 month course and that's the end of it.