$19 Certificate

[eLearner]

>>>I guess I don't really like your tone TBH. <<<<

That's too bad, but I would hope no one would like your tone at a site like this which is basically a tone of defending a course that borders on fraud: substandard curriculum, fake accreditation. Can't stress enough that teaching has an affect on people's lives and one should be properly trained for that. I have a hard time believing you don't feel the same way, but you're just remaining defensive in this case because your son is involved, at least that's what I hope anyway...


>>>I would be annoyed too if a cheap certificate would substitute for the knowledge that I have in international business.<<<

So now you're agreeing with my logic... although to be clear, in this case it doesn't substitute, it frauds. Let's call it what it is, lol.


>>>I do think we're talking about different things.<<<

Noooo, we really aren't... different view of ethics, absolutely, but the same topic.

>>>No "real" teachers are losing their job to the online Chinese schools.. trust me on that one.<<<

A person who was taught by a legitimate TEFL school and achieved certification is a real teacher of the subject. Your attempt to create some sort of separate category is an exercise of defense and not a very good one either.

>>>There is WAY more demand than they can fill, which is why a few schools hire people without any credentials other than a basic education, but almost always a bachelor's and sometimes college students working toward one.<<<

CORRECTED.

>>>  If you re-read the original post, I don't think that I was trying to lead someone down the path of butt-in-seat ESL teaching with the Groupon.<<<

I don't need to "re-read" anything (oooo there's my "tone" again) because the debate was never about butt-in-seat anything. That's totally irrelevant.

If I'm not mistaken, this forum's primary target is distance learning, so that makes the point even less relevant. It doesn't matter if the job is in-seat or virtual, a person should be properly trained to teach and most schools actually do require that you are. There are always schools that don't, but the idea that those who don't dominate the job market is simply not accurate as pretty much every online school I've seen with an ad required at least a bachelors degree and all but one did not require a certification and even that one said you had to be working toward one, so...

>>>> Having taken the Groupon ESL for NO reason other than just for fun, I can say it was beneficial.  Accreditation or no, it was fun.<<<

Dandy! Just DANDY! But no one should be teaching with that, it's a crummy course that does not prepare a person to teach ESL. 120 hours and proper 3rd party oversight is the standard, and since the course doesn't clear either checkbox, it doesn't cut the mustard.

>>>I don't think there's any "luck" to run out when this is not my son's field nor is it mine<<<

I think the point I made was well stated. IF IF IF a person decides to teach in this field in the future, yes luck will run out. I was pretty clear in qualifying how that would work...

>>> I'm glad you've told us again and again that it's not from an accredited school - good to know<<<

You're exaggerating about the frequency of my mentioning that, but good that you know...

>>> I am certain that anyone out there who wants to go into ESL would do their homework and know this. <<<

Because you're not in that world you may not realize how many fake TEFL courses there are and how many are touting fake accreditation. It's a big problem. In a situation like this, homework is difficult when so many are frauding and there is so little information about it. There are even some legit schools that have used fake accreditation just to keep up! LOL! So the last thing we should do is give any positive light to another crap course. I can also tell you from experience how many people go through these trash courses and make a mess with the students and the schools. That's the side you don't see that I have seen and this is part of why I speak up when I see a bad course being promoted in any way.

>>> For my son's purpose, it's been better than not having any teaching knowledge. <<<

Going through that course, a person still wouldn't have any teaching knowledge... 

The course is junk. JUNK! LOL!

>>> Don't worry - he was getting hired anyway, so no, he didn't take some poor helpless person's job.<<<

Ahhh, but you don't know that. There could've been someone who was vastly more qualified but he interviewed just a tad bit better and they didn't get the job. Who knows? Jobs aren't unlimited, every school be it in-person or online only staffs so many teachers. But if he was getting hired anyway, seems like there was no reason to throw on a junk cert from a junk school. If it led to higher pay that's even worse, I know I'd feel guilty using it for that, but hey, not everyone sees ethics in the same way. I've learned that many people don't see them at all...

[burbuja0512]

I think the situation must just be hitting too much to home. I didn't know that there were a lot of fake TEFL's out there, but in ANY field, people can take your job with or without proper certification or training.

I'm in international business and while I haven't seen a fake certificate, I have seen a whole bunch of people get jobs without any multicultural training or any understanding of business protocol in a given country. I have also seen former teachers get hired onto teams of business professionals. They could be taking someone's job who studied business, but I don't bother myself with it. I just go and do my best and if the company likes me, great. And if I don't make my numbers, then I'm gone and someone else is in.. maybe it's a teacher who gave up teaching. (My brother was a music teacher, but now he's taking someone's job in a technical field)

In fact, I'm pretty sure that most professions have their version of someone else taking their job. It sucks, but that's the way life is. AI will be taking ALL of our jobs anyhow within the next 20 years. We just have to do our best and realize that other people who haven't studied our particular profession will be there, and many will get hired. And sometimes they even deserve it.

[rachel83az]

I think the situation must just be hitting too much to home.   I didn't know that there were a lot of fake TEFL's out there, but in ANY field, people can take your job with or without proper certification or training.

There are a lot of fake TEFL/TESOL schools out there. I've been looking at i-to-i for a LONG time before I finally decided to drop the cash on the course and I'm still considering eventually dropping another couple grand to attend an in-person TEFL class because I'm worried about the i-to-i one not being seen as completely legit by certain employers. TEFL is big business and there are a lot of fakes out there.

In some countries, you can get a job with a TEFL cert. and not a BA or a BA of any kind and not a TEFL cert., but the best schools do want both, which is why I'm working on a BA now.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that most professions have their version of someone else taking their job.    It sucks, but that's the way life is.   AI will be taking ALL of our jobs anyhow within the next 20 years.   We just have to do our best and realize that other people who haven't studied our particular profession will be there, and many will get hired.   And sometimes they even deserve it.

No doubt. And there are undoubtedly people on this forum who have studied enough that the TEFL certificate is simply superfluous. But I DO also worry about people seeing the thread and buying the Groupon while thinking that's all they need to teach English. Implying such isn't just doing the potential learners a disservice, it's wrong for these teachers as well.

Personally, I bought the Groupon with eyes wide open and knowing that it would pretty worthless. I still hoped that it might at least offer some basic info to help me be more prepared for a real TEFL certificate. Unfortunately, it really doesn't. I printed out most of the modules (I still have these printouts) and took notes and it made very little difference in passing the course or not. That's... not a good sign.

But someone who's just getting into the TEFL circle will see the Groupon and not realize how worthless it really is. They'll try to apply to the good English schools and ruin their chances of a good TEFL career. I don't blame you or your son for taking advantage of being able to teach beginner's english with a certificate from IoA, but there are going to be those who will think that a $20 Groupon will give them all the skills and knowledge they need to teach business English and that's simply not true.

[MNomadic]

I think it's best to avoid the really cheap TEFL certificates.
I mean, what would you expect from a $19 TEFL certificate?

Well if "trustedteflreviews" says not to trust a cheap TEFL, then I guess I have to trust their review on the TEFL. 

/s

I don't think price should be the sole deciding factor on deciding an education's quality or credibility.

[Lacedonia4]

I just saw this, who gets hired is always at the discretion of the employer, no one is taking anyone's job(that is a marxist view), it is a free market and we are all at the mercy of the hiring process. We are all lacking skills, and we are all lucky if we get hired. If an employer is happy to hire someone with minimal quals, it is not fraud, it is their prerogative.

[rachel83az]

It's fraud if you represent the certificate as being equivalent to a real TEFL certificate. It's not. The IOA certificate is just really bad. It's honestly the equivalent of claiming that you are able to drive a car because you've played a lot of Mario Kart. You could be hurting a lot of people with your claims.

[Lacedonia4]

I agree, if one misrepresents it, yes it is fraud.

[Lacedonia4]

It is actually $17 today, expires on September 23.