$19 Certificate

[burbuja0512]

TEFL refers to teaching English as a foreign language: programs in countries where English is not the primary language and is not a lingua franca. TESOL, which stands for teaching English to speakers of other languages, is a general name for the field of teaching that includes both TESL and TEFL.

TESOL and TEFL are pretty much the same - Interesting info below.  
Review: http://www.eslinsider.com/blog/internati...rse-review
Comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/TEFL/comments/4...ely_cheap/

Interesting, and damning. I wouldn't waste even the $19 on it. You're not going to learn how to teach ESL with that. Plus, their accreditors are fake.

If a person in the U.S. wants a TESOL cert that is legitimately accredited by a USDOE recognized accreditor and is actually done properly, go with Bridge. They are ACCET accredited and they have agreements with several RA Universities. There are also colleges and univerisities online that have TESOL certificate programs so that's another route. It won't be cheap but it will be real and you'll actually learn something which is the point because you are dealing with people's lives/futures when you teach and you should actually know what you're doing.

I think it depends on what you want.    The $19 Groupon works very well for someone who is trying to get a check box for an online school.  I don't have any clue whether it would be worth anything in-person.   

The online English schools are very plentiful - basically they want someone competent who is a native English speaker (prefer neutral US accents.)    They have accepted my son's TESOL because teaching online is very different than in person.  Online, they have planned classes and you just follow along.   AND they just badly need teachers to fill these slots.   So, my son did the TESOL with his Groupon and now can make around $20 an hour since the schools in China accept the $19 Groupon. 

We also both have been volunteering locally at an adult ESL learning center.   It's extremely valuable experience for him tthat helped him get his online job, and having the TESOL greatly helped.

[eLearner]

I think if you want a certificate that borderlines on fraudulent with no meaningful educational value, then yes. But if the goal is to actually learn how to teach TEFL, this should be avoided at all costs because you simply can't learn how from a course like that.

No school that is in the know would ever take that course seriously, and there are plenty more schools that are in the know than people think. I wouldn't want to work for a place that would accept that course as they would clearly have no standards, and that's certain to manifest itself at some point for me as a teacher with that organization.

[rachel83az]

I think it depends on what you want.    The $19 Groupon works very well for someone who is trying to get a check box for an online school.  I don't have any clue whether it would be worth anything in-person.   

The online English schools are very plentiful - basically they want someone competent who is a native English speaker (prefer neutral US accents.)    They have accepted my son's TESOL because teaching online is very different than in person.  Online, they have planned classes and you just follow along.   AND they just badly need teachers to fill these slots.   So, my son did the TESOL with his Groupon and now can make around $20 an hour since the schools in China accept the $19 Groupon. 

We also both have been volunteering locally at an adult ESL learning center.   It's extremely valuable experience for him tthat helped him get his online job, and having the TESOL greatly helped.

Does your son have any other qualifications (I.E. a BA) besides the IoA certificate? If not, mind sharing which online school this is? I signed up with NiceTalk ages ago and that required no qualifications at all. It also has no direction and I'm not sure what's going on with it due to the lack of structure. I'd love to be able to earn some extra money by teaching in between study sessions.

[eLearner]

I got that IoA certificate when it was $5 or $7 (I forget) on Groupon. It's not even worth that. The course is terrible, the quiz is terrible, I learned nothing new. A MUCH better (though more expensive) option is i-to-i.com It's often on sale, so it's not a horrible price.

I'm currently working my way through the 300-hour option (got distracted by finding this place, lol) and I can tell you that I learned more just glancing over the handbooks they give you than I did with the whole IoA course. It's probably not as legit as other places, but it seems legit enough for most purposes. Unlike IoA, you have to write out lesson plans and do coursework in order to get your certificate. Not sure it's worth $800, but I think it's probably worth the current price of $320.

i-to-i is pretty good. They've been around for a long time, only 8 years less than Bridge. They have lots of options and I hear they have an online teaching module now.

Going for the CELTA or Trinity are good options, too, and the CELTA is considered the gold standard course that gets universal acceptance. Unfortunately, they're not offered everywhere.

[burbuja0512]

Yikes... lots of questions.

First of all, my son is studying right now, and has no desire to ever work in ESL, except for the possibility of teaching abroad for a year after he finishes his studies. We just live in a college town where there are so many students here, you have to wait in line for minimum-wage jobs. I learned about the online school thing a few months ago and thought that it's a wonderful idea for people to make $20 an hour at home.

There are a TON of online schools out there, but the ones that pay the best are in China and teaching to very small children. Frankly, at the beginning of my career, I lived in Mexico, and was thrown into English teaching simply because I was a native speaker. Trust me, you don't need a TESOL or anything else to teach the alphabet to a five-year-old. Especially considering that the online classes have a very fixed lesson plan that is ready and waiting. You have 30 minutes with the kid(s) and everything is already laid out for you. This is not a situation where you need any certificate whatsoever. Most schools will hire without the certificate, but it does help you get the job and it helps you earn an extra few bucks an hour. Many other would-be online English teachers get the cheap TESOL for the same reason - they would get the job anyway without the certificate, but having it means that they earn a little more.

My son is fully aware that the TESOL we did online for $19 isn't the same as what he'd get in a classroom, but I don't want to discount the valuable information it contained. I did it too just for fun and ended up learning a few things! And like I said, he's in a different setting than the typical classroom.

To be very honest, I would NEVER advise him to get an ESL education at a university since the ROI is so low. We go and volunteer with ESL adults to have fun, help the community, and it helps him add to his resume. However, the person who is in charge of the learning center (who has a masters in TESOL) doesn't even get full-time hours and MAYBE makes more than the kids at the Burger King across the street. It's a valuable profession, but unfortunately it doesn't pay. For now, DS is having a great time volunteering, and a great time making $20 bucks an hour teaching little kids from China, but none of it warrants advanced education.

@Rachel83az - if you or anyone else wants to know more about the online schools for kids in China, I'm happy to share, but send me a PM. There are a ton of schools and I can provide names, but I only have first-hand experience with a couple, so I don't want to accidentally send someone in the wrong direction. Note: Any of the Chinese schools are early mornings or late nights for people based in the U.S. For example, depending on your time zone, you could be teaching starting at 4 or 5am. But since it's so early, it's a nice part time job that allows you to make a decent hourly wage before your day is even started.

[eLearner]

I get that some places will hire you without any certification at all, but that doesn't make it right, nor does it mean a person should do it just because they can. There are people who have unprotected casual intercourse with strangers because they can, doesn't mean it's a good idea...

TEFL education doesn't have to be in a classroom, besides that's not even feasible schedule-wise for everyone which is why online programs are here for us. Not being in a physical classroom isn't the problem with the $19 cert, it's the fact that the cert is low in quality and won't give you anything valuable in terms of learning that will be a helpful teaching tool. If your son is successful teaching, he's doing so because he's a natural (he'd have to be), not because of that $19 cert which is so devoid of true educational value. Just about every program (and every regular public and private school for that matter) has lesson plans and things laid out, but that doesn't ensure effectiveness as a teacher, if it did every teacher would be great but we all know that's not the case at all. There is more to it than just following a plan.

There are plenty of online TEFL schools that will give a person a quality TEFL education that will prepare them for teaching.

While I agree that the ROI for an ESL degree makes it not worth it, that's only because universities and colleges do offer TEFL certification programs that are much cheaper (a few thousand dollars in many cases), and because places with great reputations in the field like Bridge and i-to-i exist and charge only a few hundred dollars for a TEFL certification that will be respected internationally.

If someone wants to just get a rough sketch idea of TEFL they should pay $0 and go to a place like Alison and get the information and certification for free. At least Alison isn't faking accreditation and I can bet that Alison provides a better product with videos and all. Won't beat or prepare you like a full-fledged TEFL school, but it would be a nice curiosity quencher.

[rachel83az]

In addition, there is also the no-certificate free TEFL course at https://teflbootcamp.com/start-free/

Cudoo has a TEFL/TESOL course that's normally $250 but is frequently on sale (currently it's $119 but I think I got it for about $25 at one point) and offers a certificate. I never finished it, but it's at least way more in depth than IoA. https://cudoo.com/products/premium/tesol-online-course/ Personally, I think i-to-i offers way better value for not much more money.

IoA really ought to be ashamed of themselves for charging $19 and claiming it's worth $499. It's not. It's really, REALLY not.

If anyone wants to use the IoA certificate to make some extra money while ACTIVELY PURSUING a legit TEFL certificate, I think it's a bit morally dubious but okay. If you're using it as your sole source of TEFL certification, no. Just don't. Spend your money on pizza instead. You'll get better value for your investment. (Honestly, IoA should pay ME for taking their course, it's that bad!) Or save your money and pick up the i-to-i 120 hour course when it's on sale for $250-ish.

[burbuja0512]

Ok.. this is honestly a little absurd at this point... I mean comparing it to unprotected sex?

How is it dishonest when your employer is happy to accept the certificate?   When you apply at online children's English schools, they ask you to upload your certificate.    They have the option of denying your application or lowering your salary due to your education.    Just like an employer can choose to accept a degree from an unaccredited college.   Owners of the $19 TESOL aren't being deceptive, they're being smart.    If your employer chooses to accept a degree from an unaccredited school, how are you to blame if you're being open and honest about your studies?  The employer knows what you studied because they're in the market and see hundreds of these.  

The employer also understands that even a high school student with no training could teach these children's classes - any education you have on top of that is a bonus.      If the employer understands this AND my son's only goal is to please these employers, what's the issue?   The employers can always ask him to get more education.   They don't care because the job is a couple steps above babysitting.  

Overall, I think that confusing this with a full ESL education is completely off base.   The same discussions go on at the "other" forum about accreditation and they don't seem to lead anywhere good.  

However, I think we all need to agree that one of our purposes here at this forum is to make things quicker and cheaper.   I have had people fight me tooth and nail about whether CLEP tests are worthless.   But my CLEP/DSST tests helped me get from point A to point B.   I had NO NEED to take butt-in-seat classes for most of my credits.   My employer and the market just don't demand it for my career path.    I've had a very successful career in international business even with the "shortcut" taken with testing.

My daughter, on the other hand, is currently enrolled at a B&M university.   She wants to go into medicine and CLEP or Straighterline won't cut it for medical school.  She is listening to the needs of her future employer and taking the path that makes most sense.   

So... I'm proud of my son for finding a $20/hour job that will happily accept him because he speaks fluent American English.  I should note that the online English schools appreciate his TESOL certificate because he will have more knowledge than all of the other teachers they hire that didn't bother to study about teaching/learning at all.    If he studied anything more than he has, it would just be for fun or because he wants a future in ESL.  But it sure as hell wouldn't be because the online English teaching market demands it..... because it doesn't.    I'm glad he's being smart and efficient.  And open and honest by not lying to ANYONE and trying to pretend his certificate is something other than it is.


SO if you have something more than his certificate - GREAT!   That's wonderful.   But if you can honestly suggest that he pay additional money and spend additional time on something that he absolutely doesn't need,  I would love to hear a reason.   Not a fun, curiosity-based reason, but based on a legit business reason.

[eLearner]

Ok.. this is honestly a little absurd at this point... I mean comparing it to unprotected sex?

How is it dishonest when your employer is happy to accept the certificate?   When you apply at online children's English schools, they ask you to upload your certificate.    They have the option of denying your application or lowering your salary due to your education.    Just like an employer can choose to accept a degree from an unaccredited college.   Owners of the $19 TESOL aren't being deceptive, they're being smart.    If your employer chooses to accept a degree from an unaccredited school, how are you to blame if you're being open and honest about your studies?  The employer knows what you studied because they're in the market and see hundreds of these.  

The employer also understands that even a high school student with no training could teach these children's classes - any education you have on top of that is a bonus.      If the employer understands this AND my son's only goal is to please these employers, what's the issue?   The employers can always ask him to get more education.   They don't care because the job is a couple steps above babysitting.  

Overall, I think that confusing this with a full ESL education is completely off base.   The same discussions go on at the "other" forum about accreditation and they don't seem to lead anywhere good.  

However, I think we all need to agree that one of our purposes here at this forum is to make things quicker and cheaper.   I have had people fight me tooth and nail about whether CLEP tests are worthless.   But my CLEP/DSST tests helped me get from point A to point B.   I had NO NEED to take butt-in-seat classes for most of my credits.   My employer and the market just don't demand it for my career path.    I've had a very successful career in international business even with the "shortcut" taken with testing.

My daughter, on the other hand, is currently enrolled at a B&M university.   She wants to go into medicine and CLEP or Straighterline won't cut it for medical school.  She is listening to the needs of her future employer and taking the path that makes most sense.   

So... I'm proud of my son for finding a $20/hour job that will happily accept him because he speaks fluent American English.  I should note that the online English schools appreciate his TESOL certificate because he will have more knowledge than all of the other teachers they hire that didn't bother to study about teaching/learning at all.    If he studied anything more than he has, it would just be for fun or because he wants a future in ESL.  But it sure as hell wouldn't be because the online English teaching market demands it..... because it doesn't.    I'm glad he's being smart and efficient.  And open and honest by not lying to ANYONE and trying to pretend his certificate is something other than it is.


SO if you have something more than his certificate - GREAT!   That's wonderful.   But if you can honestly suggest that he pay additional money and spend additional time on something that he absolutely doesn't need,  I would love to hear a reason.   Not a fun, curiosity-based reason, but based on a legit business reason.

You understood the analogy, so no need for shock and melodrama.

To be clear, this IS a serious profession. People DO devote their lives to it, and people DO improve the status of their lives from it. Colleges and Universities DO have certs and degrees for it. So TEFL can't be downplayed, it's a profession like any other. Further, you say the online teaching market doesn't demand a certification, but of all the ads I've ever seen (and I've seen hundreds) I can only think of one that didn't require a cert. Most of the ones I saw require a Bachelors degree and a cert from a reputable school. I'm not saying there aren't more schools out there that don't care, but I've seen too many who do to believe that not caring is the prevailing attitude.

Any employer willing to accept that Groupon business as a credential is not acting ethically. It's a course that doesn't properly teach a person how to teach English as a second language to people who NEED the course to better their lives. The employer willing to accept an improper credential shows they don't respect the profession, they don't respect the students, and they don't even respect the teacher because an organization that respects you would want you to be properly trained to do the job. An organization that respects its students would want the person teaching their students to be properly trained.

The ONLY way ethical responsibility can be taken off the school is if they honestly don't know the course and aren't aware of how lacking it is.

A person using that to get a job is acting in a grey area at least. That person knows the course is crap and they're using it to make money, almost the same as a person who buys a fake degree and gets a job with it. Simply because employers accept it doesn't legitimize it, it only shows that there are unethical employers or at least employers who don't bother to research which one could argue is an extension of being unethical when dealing with the lives of students.

As for a good reason to get a real certification, that's simple: Luck runs out. If a person plans to teach in the future that means they'll eventually have to move on to other schools, schools that know the Groupon cert is a joke. They'll see that on the resume, and say "Come back when you have a real certification".

From an ethical standpoint, I couldn't get up in front of students and call myself a TEFL teacher when I KNOW I wasn't properly trained to be one, my course was crap and I know it, therefore I don't have the proper tools to understand things that I don't even realize I'm missing when teaching students because I was never trained properly to catch them, and that my credential is total bull and I shouldn't be playing with people's lives like this when I know how badly they need this skill to improve their lives.

Lastly, for every person who uses that Groupon junk to get a TEFL job, that's one more job a QUALIFIED TEFL Teacher who takes their profession seriously and put in the proper work DOESN'T get.

[burbuja0512]

Ok.. this is honestly a little absurd at this point... I mean comparing it to unprotected sex?

How is it dishonest when your employer is happy to accept the certificate?   When you apply at online children's English schools, they ask you to upload your certificate.    They have the option of denying your application or lowering your salary due to your education.    Just like an employer can choose to accept a degree from an unaccredited college.   Owners of the $19 TESOL aren't being deceptive, they're being smart.    If your employer chooses to accept a degree from an unaccredited school, how are you to blame if you're being open and honest about your studies?  The employer knows what you studied because they're in the market and see hundreds of these.  

The employer also understands that even a high school student with no training could teach these children's classes - any education you have on top of that is a bonus.      If the employer understands this AND my son's only goal is to please these employers, what's the issue?   The employers can always ask him to get more education.   They don't care because the job is a couple steps above babysitting.  

Overall, I think that confusing this with a full ESL education is completely off base.   The same discussions go on at the "other" forum about accreditation and they don't seem to lead anywhere good.  

However, I think we all need to agree that one of our purposes here at this forum is to make things quicker and cheaper.   I have had people fight me tooth and nail about whether CLEP tests are worthless.   But my CLEP/DSST tests helped me get from point A to point B.   I had NO NEED to take butt-in-seat classes for most of my credits.   My employer and the market just don't demand it for my career path.    I've had a very successful career in international business even with the "shortcut" taken with testing.

My daughter, on the other hand, is currently enrolled at a B&M university.   She wants to go into medicine and CLEP or Straighterline won't cut it for medical school.  She is listening to the needs of her future employer and taking the path that makes most sense.   

So... I'm proud of my son for finding a $20/hour job that will happily accept him because he speaks fluent American English.  I should note that the online English schools appreciate his TESOL certificate because he will have more knowledge than all of the other teachers they hire that didn't bother to study about teaching/learning at all.    If he studied anything more than he has, it would just be for fun or because he wants a future in ESL.  But it sure as hell wouldn't be because the online English teaching market demands it..... because it doesn't.    I'm glad he's being smart and efficient.  And open and honest by not lying to ANYONE and trying to pretend his certificate is something other than it is.


SO if you have something more than his certificate - GREAT!   That's wonderful.   But if you can honestly suggest that he pay additional money and spend additional time on something that he absolutely doesn't need,  I would love to hear a reason.   Not a fun, curiosity-based reason, but based on a legit business reason.

You understood the analogy, so no need for shock and melodrama.

To be clear, this IS a serious profession. People DO devote their lives to it, and people DO improve the status of their lives from it. Colleges and Universities DO have certs and degrees for it. So TEFL can't be downplayed, it's a profession like any other. Further, you say the online teaching market doesn't demand a certification, but of all the ads I've ever seen (and I've seen hundreds) I can only think of one that didn't require a cert. Most of the ones I saw require a Bachelors degree and a cert from a reputable school. I'm not saying there aren't more schools out there that don't care, but I've seen too many who do to believe that not caring is the prevailing attitude.

Any employer willing to accept that Groupon business as a credential is not acting ethically. It's a course that doesn't properly teach a person how to teach English as a second language to people who NEED the course to better their lives. The employer willing to accept an improper credential shows they don't respect the profession, they don't respect the students, and they don't even respect the teacher because an organization that respects you would want you to be properly trained to do the job. An organization that respects its students would want the person teaching their students to be properly trained.

The ONLY way ethical responsibility can be taken off the school is if they honestly don't know the course and aren't aware of how lacking it is.

A person using that to get a job is acting in a grey area at least. That person knows the course is crap and they're using it to make money, almost the same as a person who buys a fake degree and gets a job with it. Simply because employers accept it doesn't legitimize it, it only shows that there are unethical employers or at least employers who don't bother to research which one could argue is an extension of being unethical when dealing with the lives of students.

As for a good reason to get a real certification, that's simple: Luck runs out. If a person plans to teach in the future that means they'll eventually have to move on to other schools, schools that know the Groupon cert is a joke. They'll see that on the resume, and say "Come back when you have a real certification".

From an ethical standpoint, I couldn't get up in front of students and call myself a TEFL teacher when I KNOW I wasn't properly trained to be one, my course was crap and I know it, therefore I don't have the proper tools to understand things that I don't even realize I'm missing when teaching students because I was never trained properly to catch them, and that my credential is total bull and I shouldn't be playing with people's lives like this when I know how badly they need this skill to improve their lives.

Lastly, for every person who uses that Groupon junk to get a TEFL job, that's one more job a QUALIFIED TEFL Teacher who takes their profession seriously and put in the proper work DOESN'T get.

I guess I don't really like your tone TBH.  I've been on and off of this forum a few more years than you have, and one of the things I like is that there rarely are points like this for discussion - we can always agree to disagree when needed.   However, this obviously struck a nerve, so I understand.   I would be annoyed too if a cheap certificate would substitute for the knowledge that I have in international business.   (Especially if I felt somehow threatened by this business certificate..)  

I do think we're talking about different things.   No "real" teachers are losing their job to the online Chinese schools.. trust me on that one.   There is WAY more demand than they can fill, which is why they hire people without any credentials other than a basic education, sometimes a bachelor's and sometimes college students.    

And lastly again, to emphasize.   If you re-read the original post, I don't think that I was trying to lead someone down the path of butt-in-seat ESL teaching with the Groupon.   I also don't think that any of the wise people here thought it was a substitute for deeper education.     Having taken the Groupon ESL for NO reason other than just for fun, I can say it was beneficial.  Accreditation or no, it was fun.   I don't think there's any "luck" to run out when this is not my son's field nor is it mine.   

I stand by the $19 Groupon as a good way to learn a little bit more about a new field.  It's a good overview.   I'm glad you've told us again and again that it's not from an accredited school - good to know.   I am certain that anyone out there who wants to go into ESL would do their homework and know this.   I don't want to go into ESL.  For my purposes, it's been fun.   For my son's purpose, it's been better than not having any teaching knowledge.  Don't worry - he was getting hired anyway, so no, he didn't take some poor helpless person's job.