ENEB Master Thread

[IHatePickingUsernames]

Nevermind, I found it! It was NARICS Belgium. No need to reply to this post. I couldn't delete it, so I'm updating it.

IIRC, either on this board or the other one, someone wrote that one of the foreign credential evaluators combined the credits from their double master's degrees and gave them an evaluation that said they had the equivalent of an RA master's degree. The person said the company's reasoning was something to the effect that their second degree had enough courses that didn't overlap with the MBA that it gave them the extra "credit hours" for them to say that by including those courses he had a full RA masters. 

I know this is worded awkwardly, but it's the best I can do right now because I took a Benadryl for my allergies and my brain is slowing down, LOL. But, I know somebody on this board knows what I'm talking about.   I need to know where to find that post and what foreign credential evaluator they used. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help me find that post!

[KSoul]

You're referring to @michaeladsmith2, and the evaluation provider is Validential. Search within the thread and you will find the details.

[Jakob]

You're referring to @michaeladsmith2, and the evaluation provider is Validential. Search within the thread and you will find the details.

You mean this reply from BadSquirrelBeta right?
His Master's in HR got evaluated as a RA Master's Degree.

https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid388217

[IHatePickingUsernames]

Well, another NACES member foreign educational credential evaluator can be scratched off the list of agencies to seek evaluations from. I sent an email to Foundation for International Services (FIS) to ask them how they evaluated Master Propio degrees from Spain. This is the answer I received:

Thank you for your inquiry.  FIS does not evaluate Spanish titulo propios (master..) and considers these programs as equivalent to completion of continuing education contrary to the titulo oficial universitario de Master which we equate to a US master’s degree.

Continuing education?! Give me a break.

Steer clear of this one to avoid wasting your money.

---

You're referring to @michaeladsmith2, and the evaluation provider is Validential. Search within the thread and you will find the details.

Thanks. That's not the one I was looking for, but I did end up finding what I was looking for on the Wiki.

---

You're referring to @michaeladsmith2, and the evaluation provider is Validential. Search within the thread and you will find the details.

You mean this reply from BadSquirrelBeta right?
His Master's in HR got evaluated as a RA Master's Degree.

https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid388217

The only problem with Validential is that it's not a member of NACES, and most colleges/universities and pretty much all governmental agencies require foreign educational credentials to be evaluated by a NACES member organization. And they're not awarding anything higher than graduate certificates. Well, one awarded graduate diploma status, but the US doesn't use that designation.

[Vle045]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest. There's not much instruction going on. You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic. I am treating this as a personal study.

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain. As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA. The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

[KSoul]

It will be interesting to see how many universities will accept ENEB masters for entry into their doctoral programs over time, as it may only be a rare few when the dust settles. At a minimum, I envision creative applicants using universities to partner with, like Liberty & VUL, for opportunities to transfer in doctoral credits to complete their degree at a university that may not have accepted ENEB; however, they will take doctoral transfer credits. This would create some loopholes for ENEB credits to 007 in more schools.

[BadSquirrelBeta]

You're referring to @michaeladsmith2, and the evaluation provider is Validential. Search within the thread and you will find the details.

You mean this reply from BadSquirrelBeta right?
His Master's in HR got evaluated as a RA Master's Degree.

https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...#pid388217

Hi,  BSB here.

Each degree I had separately evaluated with Validential-MBA, Master in HR and Master in Big Data and Business Intel-all deemed as RA by Validential.  I did them at separate intervals and did not send in any extra materials or other course transcripts, etc.

PS - I'm female, but no worries, it's all good!

[IHatePickingUsernames]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

It's not fair. Especially in light of the fact that degree programs in the US are developed, modified, and/or eliminated by individual universities without direct oversight from the federal government. Using ACEI's own definitions and policy, that makes every US degree a propio degree.

There is also the fact that, like Spain, there is a two-tier graduate degree system in the US. The traditional master's degree prepares students for doctoral programs by teaching academic research (thesis preparation) and then requiring a thesis paper and a thesis defense. This is the option students choose if they intend to enter academia immediately or think they will in the future.

The terminal master's degree prepares students to enter industry and not academia and, as such, don't require a thesis paper or defense. If one is not interested in entering academia, why does one need to be taught to compete in the "publish or perish" atmosphere of academia? One does not, which is why terminal master's degrees exist.

In the US, both of these master's degrees are considered full master's degrees and there is no stigma in having a terminal master's degree. NACES and its member organizations know this, but still won't give full equivalency to Spanish Master Propio degrees, even though they are identical in nature and purpose to terminal degrees in the US.

And, let's talk about the case of the MBA. MBAs are professional or specialized master's degrees that don't require a thesis or thesis defense even here in the US. Yet, NACES member organizations won't give the ENEB/UI1 MBA full equivalency and even, in one case, downgrades it to a bachelor's in business administration degree.

Lastly, there is a second accreditation system in the US -- national accreditation. Given that the ENEB/UI1 Master Propio degrees are terminal master's degrees, it's hard to understand why NACES member organizations wouldn't give them equivalency to either a RA terminal master's degree or a NA terminal master's degree, instead of saying that they're not degrees at all (but graduate credits or certificate) or are equivalent to, even worse, unaccredited master's degrees.

ACEI and the other NACES members' justifications for not awarding full degree status to Master Propio degrees is a red herring. 

NACES (in its own words) is a trade association.  The purpose of a trade association is to represent the interests of the industry in which it operates. NACES is a trade association whose purpose is to represent the interests of the US higher education industry. They are acting to protect the financial bottom line of the prohibitively expensive US higher education industry by downgrading low-cost propio degrees from other countries; specifically, in this instance, Spain. 

I have no doubt that they're trying to discourage as many Americans as possible from pursuing low-cost Spanish propio degrees by not giving them full equivalency to any type of US master's degree. And that pisses me off. But, this isn't my first time at the rodeo, so I know how to work around them. <evil grin>

[eLearner]

... so I know how to work around them. <evil grin>

One way to work around them is not to use them. For all of the talk we have about FCEs, and it is a very necessary discussion, most of us will never actually need one.

Your take on how the FCEs are intentionally acting as gatekeepers in an unfair way is one I've read some others have, and I don't doubt it. There are degree programs that operate much the same way here in the United States, but no issue with those. Yet, when it comes from another country, suddenly they're everything from Bachelor's degrees to certificates. We are however assuming that is the general stance of NACES FCEs without being entirely sure. After all, we've only seen evaluations from a few.

The evaluators could make this easier by spelling out what they will or won't do with Propios, but only a few do that publicly. The rest are fully content with you spending your money and wasting it to be told they won't deem your Master Propio equivalent to a U.S. Master's degree, or at least not an accredited one.

[BadSquirrelBeta]

Continuing education seems to be a fair option to me, to be honest.  There's not much instruction going on.  You are mostly on your own to read and find relevant videos - then write a paper about a specific situation/topic.  I am treating this as a personal study.  

Also, titulos de propios is not considered part of formal education in Spain.  As someone said above, the closest comparison might be RA vs NA.  The private sector can accept it for employment purposes, but it won't get you into a doctoral program nor be recognized for employment in the government sector in Spain.

https://acei-global.blog/2015/05/28/spai...lo-propio/

Do I consider the ENEB experience just continuing education?  No.  You are treating it as a personal study.  That's great for you, but don't limit what the degree has been certified to be.  

If given an opportunity to learn by andragogy at this point in my life and career journey, that is the best path for me.  I'm not out to impress anyone or try and dupe an American program in furtherance of Academia or be persuaded by the scary "publish or perish" elephant in the room; and, I am certainly not out to pursue employment in Spain.