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"Beware the demagogues ready to declare a trade war against our friends"
#17
(02-03-2025, 02:59 PM)LevelUP Wrote:
(02-03-2025, 01:57 PM)lemma Wrote: The whole "the US isn't a democracy!" argument is so lame, mostly because it's a semantic argument that fails even in that sense.

The US is not a direct democracy, so if anyone is going around screeching about how Trump is running our direct democracy into the ground, then feel free to inform them that we've never been a direct democracy.

The US is, however, a democracy. It has a form of representative government where the public elects those representatives. A direct democracy has a different form of democratic government. Both the American and direct types are subtypes of democracy. If you don't believe me, maybe you'll believe Merriam-Webster's dictionary:

"a form of government in which the people elect representatives to make decisions, policies, laws, etc. according to law"

Sounds like the US to me. Now, there are other definitions of democracy, too. Unsurprisingly, people use the same word in different ways at different times and in different places. Welcome to the realities of polysemy. But regardless, it's obtuse to act like the above definition of democracy is not clearly one of, if not THE, most widely accepted definitions of democracy. Really the only time when people use "democracy" as a stand-in for "direct democracy" is when they are losing an argument.

So yes, the US is a democracy per the word's definition as it is used by many (most?) native speakers of English. It's pretty damning that when politicians engage in anti-democratic behavior one of the go-to counters their defenders always trot out is a semantic argument—and a semantic argument, as shown above, that isn't even right.

Sad!


This is more a statement of fact than an argument.

Democracy is a broad concept that many countries can claim.

"While often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic. What does this mean? “Constitutional” refers to the fact that government in the United States is based on a Constitution which is the supreme law of the United States."

U.S. Embassy
https://ar.usembassy.gov/u-s-government/

If you read The Federalist Papers, you can gain a better understanding of the Constitution and the country's founding.

"A pure democracy, by which I mean a society consisting of a small number of citizens, who assemble and administer the government in person, can admit of no cure for the mischiefs of faction."
— Federalist No. 10

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary."
— Federalist No. 51
Yes, the United States is more accurately described as a constitutional federal republic. Just like a Shih Tzu is more accurately described as a Shih Tzu than a dog, or a mammal, etc. That more accurate descriptor does not change the fact that it is a dog, or a mammal. 

The US is a constitutional federal republic. It's a democracy, too, using the definition of the word as it is clearly meant by the people who call it such. Being one doesn't preclude it being the other. Just because more precise terms exist doesn't mean more informal ones don't also apply.

No one can seriously tell me that the type of people who claim to care about American democracy — that is, politically interested people — think the US is a direct democracy. Anyone who cares enough about America to think its democratic institutions are under threat is aware that congressmen represent them in government. So since you guys know that's what they mean, why willfully misinterpret them and assume they meant direct democracy? 

It reminds me a lot of when someone mentions "America" in a context where it's clear they're talking about the US and some people get all upset because they claim it's too broad a term. It applies to all people from the American continents! Yeah, sure, it does...sometimes. And more often it doesn't. Popular usage and context makes it clear 99% of the time that, in English, "American" means related to the US—just like democracy almost always refers to the things mentioned in the entry from Merriam-Webster's above, and not direct democracy specifically.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: "Beware the demagogues ready to declare a trade war against our friends" - by lemma - 02-03-2025, 10:50 PM

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