college or trade

[skybirds]

It is a given skilled tradesmen can make a good living. The
downside is often unsafe work environments, boom bust
cycles, unexpected costs, chasing down people who owe
and purchasing equipment that can be very costly. Having
worked in the trades as a helper the most difficult thing was
working with very difficult people.
I'm of the opinion that getting a Bachelors and even a Masters
is a wiser investment. At least it is respected. Even more so
if you have some applied sciences in your degree. I'm past the age
of apprenticing. I like technical subjects. As I said the most
difficult thing was working with pushy people. I worked as a
volunteer at Habit For Humanity. The work environment was
nice. People worked as a team. In paid trades work I ran into a
lot of bullies and tyrants.
Can anyone share their experiences and opinions. This is just my
experience.

[cookderosa]

It is a given skilled tradesmen can make a good living. The
downside is often unsafe work environments, boom bust
cycles, unexpected costs, chasing down people who owe
and purchasing equipment that can be very costly. Having
worked in the trades as a helper the most difficult thing was
working with very difficult people.
I'm of the opinion that getting a Bachelors and even a Masters
is a wiser investment. At least it is respected. Even more so
if you have some applied sciences in your degree. I'm past the age
of apprenticing. I like technical subjects. As I said the most
difficult thing was working with pushy people. I worked as a
volunteer at Habit For Humanity. The work environment was
nice. People worked as a team. In paid trades work I ran into a
lot of bullies and tyrants.
Can anyone share their experiences and opinions. This is just my
experience.

I'm volunteer at the Good Samaritan Free Clinic, best volunteer job ever. Take a bunch of people who are altruistic and bring them together, it's one giant love fest. I'm not being sarcastic, I look forward to it!

I think the differences between blue collar and white collar, in my observation, centers around the perception of "work." I've noticed this EXTENSIVELY in almost every work situation I've been involved in. Blue collar workers (trades) measure worth based on what you DO. Physically seeing you "work" and "do" things. So, to a blue collar worker, management doesn't do squat and they don't know squat. A white collar worker, OTOH, uses their brain in decision making/strategy/managing/etc. So, a white collar worker's work is happening up top. They can view the blue collar workers as not sophisticated enough to make "decisions" and are just laborers. Of course you need both, that's obvious, but the attitude you talk of is when you get people who don't understand that both skills are needed to be successful.

So, you have to ask yourself if you are happier as a "hand-on-doer" or as a "hands-off-thinker" and you'll have your answer!

[burbuja0512]

Some of the best paid trade jobs are the least glamorous. Let's say it's New Year's Eve, you're having a party and with 100 people at your house, your toilet starts overflowing. What a disaster! You'll do anything to quickly fix the mess and don't mind the 500 dollars you have to pay for the plumber just to show up at that hour. Not to mention the charges incurred for labor and parts.

The plumber has to ruin his New Year's plans and get his hands dirty, but walks away with a pretty penny for just a few hours work.

Another one is the electrician. My friend's husband is working through an apprenticeship right now. He is called to states that are having severe weather and has to climb poles in the middle of snow storms just to make sure that people can stay warm and toasty in their house with electricity. He's not even a master electrician yet, and won't be for a few years, but makes really good money as a "student." Not many people would be willing to do what he does, but if you don't mind getting cold and aren't afraid of heights, it's exciting and gratifying to know that thousands of people don't lose their power because of your work. Not to mention that the union benefits are spectacular..

I could never be a trade worker, I swear I am only good at sales and literally nothing else lol, but I have respect for the blue collar professions.

[blu2blu]

This reminds me of line between enlisted and officer in the armed forces. Many enlisted troops who physically get the work done think that officers are a bunch of lazy, overpaid, ignorant sissies. And unfortunately some officers think that they are too smart to be labor and enlisted are too dumb to be management. Both perceptions are false and both sides of the coin are needed to get the job done.

The bigger problem is with the lack of respect blue collar workers generally receive in the U.S. today. We, as a society, have this idea that everyone needs to go to college. What a horrible idea. Trade schools are very important. Just like the examples given above about the plumber and the electrician show we NEED blue collar workers. These men and women keep our country together. What about truckers? So many people have low opinions of these folks but the fact of the matter is they are the life blood of this nation. Everything you buy at Wal Mart or your grocery store was brought there on a truck, and someone had to drive it.

This country needs to invest in trade schools and their students. I want the carpenters building my home to be good at their job. Same thing with the plumber, electrician, and mason. Don't you?

[Potatoloco]

This reminds me of line between enlisted and officer in the armed forces. Many enlisted troops who physically get the work done think that officers are a bunch of lazy, overpaid, ignorant sissies. And unfortunately some officers think that they are too smart to be labor and enlisted are too dumb to be management. Both perceptions are false and both sides of the coin are needed to get the job done.

It's funny you mention that. I have a sister-in-law that's an officer in the Air Force. And pretty much what you described is how she feels about enlistments.

[MA2]

Not everyone can go to college. I really wish high schools taught more about the alternatives to college... learning a trade, the military, entry level jobs with growth potential, etc.

I think the whole "the only way to be successful is to go to college" mantra of high schools today is why so many reports show that kids are learning less in schools now, and why so many kids get useless degrees and wonder why the can't find a job.

"But I spent $200,000 dollars on this sociology bachelors, why can't I find a job? Darn economy!"

MA2/USN

[P00057870]

As someone who works at a technical center for postsecondary (adult) and high school students, which is part of a county public school system - I think we are the best kept secret around. I suspect that is so all over the country.

I teach adults, and even then our programs cost about 1/10th of what you would pay to get it from a private school or college teaching the same Applied Technology Programs. Very few people know about them.

Add to that, most of the high school students do not know the options available to them and few parents get involved enough to find out....just think of your 11th grade student, about half way through their 11th grade, as long as they had completed all but a few mandatory items, being able to take the practical nursing program - for free....all books, uniforms, etc. Parents have to sign off, as the kids will be working with real live people....but by the time they graduate, they can then sit for the state boards and be a licensed LPN. Then they can articulate into an RN program....or work, and get the employer to pay for them to go on for their RN.

Now -- the same grade levels (11th and 12th) can do share-time or dual enrollment and do school work half days and come to the campus to learn trades - the subjects taught here (some are online now). Think of coming out of school in Florida able to repair air conditioning - that is a real money job here, repair a car, auto body work, electrician, etc. ...not to mention Court Reporting, CISCO computer certification, medical coding and billing, medical records transcribing, ....

I can go on and on.

Since working in the school system, I have worked at a high school for "kids at risk".... this is where I found out that they, too, were pushing college. I asked around and found out that the high school gets a bonus for every kid that starts college, and they can confirm it. Notice I said starts. So, the counselors push for that, not for sending them to our schools which will prepare them for a job, and then they can go on and get their degree and be able to make a living if it does not work out.

Having always worked in an office-related job, I am always greatful as a consumer of trades-persons skills that they are able and willing to do those jobs. Their abilities amaze me whenever I watch them, and today they have to know as much about computers as the rest of us. Their jobs have become more technical over the years, not just strength and physical labor. It is about time people realize this.

Enough of being on the soapbox.....

Back to the original question....personally, I have noted that a few friends and family members who have had experience with the trades and ended up as executives or owning their own businesses had the upper hand. The workers can't pull any wool over their eyes, as they have been there and done that....And when an executive type tries to put down the workers, the person with experience can put them in their place. Seems the best of both worlds. Not to mention, if someone were to walk from a job, you could always roll up your sleeves and do the job. Bet it would get a lot more respect in the future than one could imagine.

[burbuja0512]

I think that for the most part, high school counselors don't do a good job of presenting all the options. Back when I was in H.S., the counselors and the teachers made you feel like a loser if you did anything other than go straight into a four year school.

I really wish a lot of them were more open to talk about other options. Even if you want to end up at a traditional 4 year B&M school, you're still best off going to a community college (I won't even talk about CLEP) to take your general requirements... unless you're totally rich and have tons of money to burn.

I really hope that counselors talk about these options.. It's been a long time since I was in HS.

[ryoder]

The kids throwing rocks at each other in the streets of Egypt have bachelors and masters degrees. They have no job, no job skills but since Egypt gives college educations out for free everyone has a degree.
Look where it got them.

Those people are screwed by their circumstances but we all are to some degree. Life is what you make of it and in this country if you are super intelligent and super technical and understand the needs of the customer you will be highly paid no matter what you do. People that understand how to create value for the customer are in high demand no matter what the degree.

I do agree that schools should better prepare students for survival in the world. They often tell kids to do what they like, well if they have 10 terrible teachers and one good one, they end up studying what the one good teacher taught them which might be art appreciation! Good luck getting a paycheck for that!

[skybirds]

I'm glad to hear a lot of suppport for the trades. I have a two
year diploma in tool making. I never followed up on it. That's
my mistake. A trade component in a BSc is the best of both
worlds.Courses at trade school can be hard. On the upside
they are not as abstract as uiniversity courses. Some folks
are better with their hands. I'm in between. I know that
the trades are respected in Canada and Europe mpre than the
US