$19 Certificate

[burbuja0512]

Ok.. this is honestly a little absurd at this point... I mean comparing it to unprotected sex?

How is it dishonest when your employer is happy to accept the certificate?   When you apply at online children's English schools, they ask you to upload your certificate.    They have the option of denying your application or lowering your salary due to your education.    Just like an employer can choose to accept a degree from an unaccredited college.   Owners of the $19 TESOL aren't being deceptive, they're being smart.    If your employer chooses to accept a degree from an unaccredited school, how are you to blame if you're being open and honest about your studies?  The employer knows what you studied because they're in the market and see hundreds of these.  

The employer also understands that even a high school student with no training could teach these children's classes - any education you have on top of that is a bonus.      If the employer understands this AND my son's only goal is to please these employers, what's the issue?   The employers can always ask him to get more education.   They don't care because the job is a couple steps above babysitting.  

Overall, I think that confusing this with a full ESL education is completely off base.   The same discussions go on at the "other" forum about accreditation and they don't seem to lead anywhere good.  

However, I think we all need to agree that one of our purposes here at this forum is to make things quicker and cheaper.   I have had people fight me tooth and nail about whether CLEP tests are worthless.   But my CLEP/DSST tests helped me get from point A to point B.   I had NO NEED to take butt-in-seat classes for most of my credits.   My employer and the market just don't demand it for my career path.    I've had a very successful career in international business even with the "shortcut" taken with testing.

My daughter, on the other hand, is currently enrolled at a B&M university.   She wants to go into medicine and CLEP or Straighterline won't cut it for medical school.  She is listening to the needs of her future employer and taking the path that makes most sense.   

So... I'm proud of my son for finding a $20/hour job that will happily accept him because he speaks fluent American English.  I should note that the online English schools appreciate his TESOL certificate because he will have more knowledge than all of the other teachers they hire that didn't bother to study about teaching/learning at all.    If he studied anything more than he has, it would just be for fun or because he wants a future in ESL.  But it sure as hell wouldn't be because the online English teaching market demands it..... because it doesn't.    I'm glad he's being smart and efficient.  And open and honest by not lying to ANYONE and trying to pretend his certificate is something other than it is.


SO if you have something more than his certificate - GREAT!   That's wonderful.   But if you can honestly suggest that he pay additional money and spend additional time on something that he absolutely doesn't need,  I would love to hear a reason.   Not a fun, curiosity-based reason, but based on a legit business reason.

You understood the analogy, so no need for shock and melodrama.

To be clear, this IS a serious profession. People DO devote their lives to it, and people DO improve the status of their lives from it. Colleges and Universities DO have certs and degrees for it. So TEFL can't be downplayed, it's a profession like any other. Further, you say the online teaching market doesn't demand a certification, but of all the ads I've ever seen (and I've seen hundreds) I can only think of one that didn't require a cert. Most of the ones I saw require a Bachelors degree and a cert from a reputable school. I'm not saying there aren't more schools out there that don't care, but I've seen too many who do to believe that not caring is the prevailing attitude.

Any employer willing to accept that Groupon business as a credential is not acting ethically. It's a course that doesn't properly teach a person how to teach English as a second language to people who NEED the course to better their lives. The employer willing to accept an improper credential shows they don't respect the profession, they don't respect the students, and they don't even respect the teacher because an organization that respects you would want you to be properly trained to do the job. An organization that respects its students would want the person teaching their students to be properly trained.

The ONLY way ethical responsibility can be taken off the school is if they honestly don't know the course and aren't aware of how lacking it is.

A person using that to get a job is acting in a grey area at least. That person knows the course is crap and they're using it to make money, almost the same as a person who buys a fake degree and gets a job with it. Simply because employers accept it doesn't legitimize it, it only shows that there are unethical employers or at least employers who don't bother to research which one could argue is an extension of being unethical when dealing with the lives of students.

As for a good reason to get a real certification, that's simple: Luck runs out. If a person plans to teach in the future that means they'll eventually have to move on to other schools, schools that know the Groupon cert is a joke. They'll see that on the resume, and say "Come back when you have a real certification".

From an ethical standpoint, I couldn't get up in front of students and call myself a TEFL teacher when I KNOW I wasn't properly trained to be one, my course was crap and I know it, therefore I don't have the proper tools to understand things that I don't even realize I'm missing when teaching students because I was never trained properly to catch them, and that my credential is total bull and I shouldn't be playing with people's lives like this when I know how badly they need this skill to improve their lives.

Lastly, for every person who uses that Groupon junk to get a TEFL job, that's one more job a QUALIFIED TEFL Teacher who takes their profession seriously and put in the proper work DOESN'T get.

I guess I don't really like your tone TBH.  I've been on and off of this forum a few more years than you have, and one of the things I like is that there rarely are points like this for discussion - we can always agree to disagree when needed.   However, this obviously struck a nerve, so I understand.   I would be annoyed too if a cheap certificate would substitute for the knowledge that I have in international business.   (Especially if I felt somehow threatened by this business certificate..)  

I do think we're talking about different things.   No "real" teachers are losing their job to the online Chinese schools.. trust me on that one.   There is WAY more demand than they can fill, which is why they hire people without any credentials other than a basic education, sometimes a bachelor's and sometimes college students.    

And lastly again, to emphasize.   If you re-read the original post, I don't think that I was trying to lead someone down the path of butt-in-seat ESL teaching with the Groupon.   I also don't think that any of the wise people here thought it was a substitute for deeper education.     Having taken the Groupon ESL for NO reason other than just for fun, I can say it was beneficial.  Accreditation or no, it was fun.   I don't think there's any "luck" to run out when this is not my son's field nor is it mine.   

I stand by the $19 Groupon as a good way to learn a little bit more about a new field.  It's a good overview.   I'm glad you've told us again and again that it's not from an accredited school - good to know.   I am certain that anyone out there who wants to go into ESL would do their homework and know this.   I don't want to go into ESL.  For my purposes, it's been fun.   For my son's purpose, it's been better than not having any teaching knowledge.  Don't worry - he was getting hired anyway, so no, he didn't take some poor helpless person's job.