What is the point of school?

[andy3000]

Hmmm...not sure on that. Say that law and medicine are two of the worst industries is pretty debatable. Our medical health care here in the states leaves something to be desired, to be sure, but the worst field because it requires a degree of knowledge that someone uneducated in that field would not understand?

That's not what I meant. I mean that people working in these industries are some of the most educated, but yet these industries are a mess. If education is supposed to prepare people for work, then it would stand to reason that the professions with most highly educated workers would be the best.

Regarding knowledge, for example, why do they call a heart attack a myocardial infarction? It is just obfuscating with jargon.

[jackzack87]

I'm an EMT, so I understand a little of the necessity to "Latin-ize" or speak Greek into our typical language to the medical field. I doubt it's unnecessary, although I understand the confusion it causes when long, unfamiliar words appear for what we could easily say in common language.

BTW, myo means muscle, cardio means heart and I think infarction means death or blockage. Because of the intricacy and plethora of parts to the human body, having detailed terms and precise language is the necessity that allows medical professionals to zero in on the problem. I'd assume law to have its own set of unintelligible jargon that has sense outside of my small knowledge.

[Kaz]

Inspired by another thread, I am working on some soul-searching. I am an idealist, but have become disillusioned with the reality of formal education.

What say you? What do you hope to gain from college that you couldn't gain otherwise, beyond just a degree? Would you be doing the same thing even if the degree served no purpose in your life?

Awesome post. I've thought about this a bit over the years. Even though I'm someone who lives for knowledge and learning, I'd say I'm looking to gain better employment from a degree. Better means a lot of things: pay, flexibility, interest in what I'm doing, etc.

I wouldn't have gone about school the way I did if the degree wasn't intended to improve my employment. I've done the first three years of my bachelor's at various brick-&-mortar schools. I've invested a lot of time and money and aggravation. If the degree "...served no purpose..." I wouldn't have done what I did at all. However...

If I'd known about stuff like the Big 3 years back I think I would have definitely gotten a degree. I just "dig" that kind of stuff. I'm an infovore. Knowledge just... tastes good! :reddevil: But I want recognition too. And I want more pay off. And I want to feel like a part of something like that. Being respected as intelligent and knowledgable while I went about my menial jobs sucked more and more as I got older. Then the wasted opportunity vibe kicked in. Then all the stories of high school friends with bad ass jobs filtered my way. Honestly, I don't necessarily believe in destiny, but I think forces would have inevitably gotten me to college one way or the other.

To be honest again, if I could do it without any financial issues whatsoever, I'd be a professional student, sitting in an ivory tower contemplating my navel. But this is reality and I flat need the piece of paper to move on to the next thing in my life.

[Kaz]

Regarding knowledge, for example, why do they call a heart attack a myocardial infarction? It is just obfuscating with jargon.

There are people that say that about every technical profession. I'm a computer tech and I've heard the same thing from non-techie people when they here me talking to a fellow tech and we are talking shop, using tons of acronyms and talking in shorthand with inside jokes and memes. To be completely honest, I don't know anything about you, but those people I've encountered that had that attitude towards me seemed like they had a real chip on their shoulder. They actually had palpable, emotional annoyance. It really came off more like they were insulted or something, like because we were using words they didn't understand in their presence that automatically meant we were looking down on them or trying to "pull a fast one" or something.

Frankly, that's on them. It seems like it makes it harder to understand the topic, but in reality it makes it much clearer to those who are working and studying in the field. It's as simple as that. I'm going to ask a fellow tech for CAT5 not "the wire that's like normal telephone wire but has a bigger thingy on the end". Once you know what RAID, GNU, etc. is you simply can't get your point across any simpler or faster.

<rant>And my math professors? Forget about it! I think they can talk all day without saying anything a laymen would understand. And with complete honesty, no, there isn't any other way to say it. I've had people get frustrated because they just "wanted me to explain it without getting all technical". Well, excuse me, but that's what it is. Technical! If you use one word the wrong way you can get the entire concept wrong. Literally. And sorry but I had to clear 4 pre-reqs in order to get into the class where I struggled all semester to learn this and you feel entitled to get spoonfed a Reader's Digest version in 50 words or less?! Whose arrogant now. </rant>

I had more but I realized I was venting more than anything else. In a nutshell, if someone is a customer or "victim" or relies on a technical person in some way I think they are entitled to be brought up to speed by the technical person as best as they can be. But nothing past that.

[grauwulf]

LOL in other news......

Somebody [recruiter] from IBM contacted me last week to ask if I would be interested in being submitted for a given position. Not being heavy in the job market, but always curious, I said sure. Why not? Today I got an email back from the same recruiting company's HR department "regretfully informing me that [I] have not been selected to continue to the next phase of this application process due to the following factors:"

The one and only factor? "Lack of Bachelors degree in computer science, information systems, or related field"

MAJOR-LOLS!

the same company that looked me up, tracked me down, and contacted me asking that I apply for a position says that I'm summarily unqualified to apply for that position! :-P HR controls the gateway to the job, and HR is (in my experience) not interested in anything but "ticking the box"

So, to answer your question: "that, is the point of school"! Getting past the Vogons in HR. :-D

[rickyjo]

Lmao!!!!!!!

[andy3000]

There are people that say that about every technical profession. I'm a computer tech and I've heard the same thing from non-techie people when they here me talking to a fellow tech and we are talking shop, using tons of acronyms and talking in shorthand with inside jokes and memes. To be completely honest, I don't know anything about you, but those people I've encountered that had that attitude towards me seemed like they had a real chip on their shoulder. They actually had palpable, emotional annoyance. It really came off more like they were insulted or something, like because we were using words they didn't understand in their presence that automatically meant we were looking down on them or trying to "pull a fast one" or something.

Frankly, that's on them. It seems like it makes it harder to understand the topic, but in reality it makes it much clearer to those who are working and studying in the field. It's as simple as that. I'm going to ask a fellow tech for CAT5 not "the wire that's like normal telephone wire but has a bigger thingy on the end". Once you know what RAID, GNU, etc. is you simply can't get your point across any simpler or faster.

<rant>And my math professors? Forget about it! I think they can talk all day without saying anything a laymen would understand. And with complete honesty, no, there isn't any other way to say it. I've had people get frustrated because they just "wanted me to explain it without getting all technical". Well, excuse me, but that's what it is. Technical! If you use one word the wrong way you can get the entire concept wrong. Literally. And sorry but I had to clear 4 pre-reqs in order to get into the class where I struggled all semester to learn this and you feel entitled to get spoonfed a Reader's Digest version in 50 words or less?! Whose arrogant now. </rant>

I had more but I realized I was venting more than anything else. In a nutshell, if someone is a customer or "victim" or relies on a technical person in some way I think they are entitled to be brought up to speed by the technical person as best as they can be. But nothing past that.

Your example is a false analogy because there are no common use words for the examples you cited, whereas the medical field uses many terms that have common English equivalents.

It is impolite to exclude someone from a conversation by using terms they don’t understand. If I was speaking to a sysadmin I would say Cat 5, if I was speaking with a non-technical person I would say the cable that connects your computer to the router.

As for myself I work as a front end web developer. Before that I worked in communications in the Army. I have pretty strong tech skills and still find many tech support people to be condescending dweebs.

I also went through EMT training but never worked in the field, which is how I know medical terms are needlessly complicated. I spent a good deal of time studying the terms.

[Maniac Craniac]

Your example is a false analogy

I don't like "false analogy" as a fallacy. If you break a comparison down, you can easily find where the parallels end.

In this case, the point is efficiency. If esoteric means efficient, then let it be.

[PonyGirl93]

Inspired by another thread, I am working on some soul-searching. I am an idealist, but have become disillusioned with the reality of formal education.

What say you? What do you hope to gain from college that you couldn't gain otherwise, beyond just a degree? Would you be doing the same thing even if the degree served no purpose in your life?

*snort* "working on some soul-searching"... left-brainer

Wellp, what I personally hope to gain from college is ultimately knowledge. I feel like there are a lot of things that I need to know going into the CJ field that books will do an okay job of introducing me to. Quite possibly not as well as the field (in fact, quite likely), but who really takes a 17 y.o. onto the field? Might as well get a jumpstart. Besides, I was really, painfully, bored with high school... Studying law-ish stuff is way more interesting

The side bonus is that employers like to see those little BA, BS, MA, etc. initials :p

In previous life mindsets, when I was planning to be a journalist, speech therapist, or psychologist, among others, I hoped to get knowledge and/or feedback. Particularly with journalism, I wanted to get the specific critique of more knowledgeable people than myself on how I could improve.

[Maniac Craniac]

*snort* "working on some soul-searching"... left-brainer

I guess I am a left-brainer, but I have a very strong imagination and creative side. I think the combination works out quite nicely when I write or when I am on the job, interpreting. Anyway, my practical side caused me to choose UWyo as my school, and I will engage in creative ways to finish the degree

The side bonus is that employers like to see those little BA, BS, MA, etc. initials :p

Imagine an interpreter who has and MBA... yeah, I'm thinking about it...

I feel like there are a lot of things that I need to know going into the CJ field that books will do an okay job of introducing me to.

Well, since you are a fan of Thoreau, I have a quote of my own:

"I have learned that the swiftest traveler is he that goes afoot."

Hmm. I might even add that to my signature.