Harvard Extension School Students Rally for Degree Name Change

[eriehiker]

I have a couple of questions:

I read the constitution of the Harvard Extension Alumni Association. I see that individuals with certificates earned prior to 2010 are allowed full membership while those with certificates earned after 2010 are only allowed associate membership. Do you know why this difference exists?

Also, I looked up your Kennedy School PLC because it sounded interesting. I read that holders of this credential or an executive education program gain Harvard Kennedy School Professional and Lifelong Learning alumni status. This allows access to most Kennedy School alumni events. These events seem fantastic and probably worth the $6,000 price of the PLC. So it seems like there are many different alumni associations at Harvard. Is there any way to make these less stratified and open to members of other Harvard alumni groups?

Note: I have 20 graduate credits from the HES Poetry in America series. I considered completing two social science courses to earn a graduate certificate, but decided not to because the $6,000+ cost seemed too much for the HES alumni associate membership benefits.

Cheers!
Mike

[Jonathan Whatley]

So it seems like there are many different alumni associations at Harvard.  Is there any way to make these less stratified and open to members of other Harvard alumni groups?

The Harvard Alumni Association is the big one, and it's not stratified among degree-holders.

Members of the HAA include recipients of all degrees granted by the University and Radcliffe College, as well as the members of all University faculties. Others whose names appear on the alumni records of the University, but who have not received degrees, are associate members and program participants. They may attend meetings and take part in any activities of the HAA but may not vote for Overseers of the University or directors of the HAA.

[newdegree]

Sorry to hear you are going through this but you knew the type of degree you signed up for which was a Harvard Extension School degree which was clearly outlined as a Master of Liberal Arts (ALM) in Extension Studies , Field: XXX. People can’t play the victim when they knew what they signed up for , you as the student / customer had a choice to choose a different university if you didn’t like the degree or how the degree name sounded.

"play the victim" is needlessly loaded language.

The fact that HES students accepted a condition doesn't disqualify them from arguing for a change to the condition, especially for future students who will come after them. Indeed, although it means they're not impartial, it suggests they have some insight about the condition and its consequences.

People attend Harvard Extension School to try to gain a back door to Harvard university and gain the prestige that is associated with it. 

I spent years at Harvard Extension as an on-campus student in a non-degree program. I saw hundreds of fellow non-degree students attend for the quality of the courses, mostly in science, and their credential value on a transcript without seeking a degree. Most of my classmates were nontraditional-age adult post-baccalaureate pre-med and other pre-health students. (I served with and was eventually president of our pre-health student society, where we organized extra-curricular programming including med school visits and other academic, social, and volunteering events and activities.)

Harvard Extension also offers a number of programs with no direct and sometimes even no close counterpart in other Harvard schools. For example, the only master's in journalism at Harvard is the Master of Liberal Arts with field of study in Journalism at Harvard Extension.

We all know Harvard extension school is the easiest Harvard school to get accepted to which has an open door policy for new students. They typically will allow students to be conditionally accepted and require them to take a few classes with an average of a B to gain full acceptance. Compared to the other schools at the university they have a competitive application process which vets out candidates in an intense selection process only allowing the best of the best to study at Harvard University.

Harvard Extension pre-admission courses are more intense and selective than many university selection processes!

It's true and significant that students at other Harvard graduate schools are just about uniformly stellar.

Most students at Harvard College, the traditional undergraduate program, are also stellar. There is a lower end there worth acknowledging.

Harvard College also has the limitation of consisting of materially 100% traditional-age students. Harvard College simply will not admit materially any applicant who doesn't enter directly from high school at a traditional age. Under 1% of students are transfer students, and most of those started college at a traditional age and are still traditional-age. Every year there are also approximately 100 students admitted to Harvard College from high school who defer for one gap year, with a smaller number deferring for two years for reasons like military or religious service if Harvard College approves.

To say needlessly loaded language is an understatement, I think its necessary to point it out. By all means any student argue if you want but at the end of the day it was clearly put out there the terms and conditions of applying to the degree. Past, Present, and Future students must read what they are signing up for prior to agreeing to pursue studies in the program. I am assuming by now most of them have a bachelors degree and understand what is written.

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Sorry to hear you are going through this but you knew the type of degree you signed up for which was a Harvard Extension School degree which was clearly outlined as a Master of Liberal Arts (ALM) in Extension Studies , Field: XXX. People can’t play the victim when they knew what they signed up for , you as the student / customer had a choice to choose a different university if you didn’t like the degree or how the degree name sounded. There are so much other choices in education to select from. People attend Harvard Extension School to try to gain a back door to Harvard university and gain the prestige that is associated with it. Since the a university doesn’t not wish to acknowledge the degree as equivalent to their much harder schools to get into at the university people always want to say they are being discriminated against or treated different due to the degree they agreed to study with no strings attached. We all know Harvard extension school is the easiest Harvard school to get accepted to which has an open door policy for new students. They typically will allow students to be conditionally accepted and require them to take a few classes with an average of a B to gain full acceptance. Compared to the other schools at the university they have a competitive application process which vets out candidates in an intense selection process only allowing the best of the best to study at Harvard University. While it is great all the effort , time , and money you have put into rallying against Harvard , a class action lawsuit would never work even if you got a lawyer because it was originally clearly outlined under Your Harvard University Degree section on the website as well as multiple other sources. It is going to be hard to prove a case to any judge unfortunately and as you mentioned you will be going up against Harvards best lawyers which will probably not end well. Best of luck to you but in all reality it’s a topic you may want to move forward from. If you are unhappy with your degree you can always go study another one at a more respected university program.

I feel like you're making a lot of assumptions in your post, not only about me, but also who exactly is attending HES. It's a very diverse student body. Multiple people on this forum have asked for an insider's perspective on this situation. That's what I'm doing here. While it is true, that I personally knew what I was getting into, HES has been my dream school because of what it represents. There's no shame in studying at the working class ivy school, which, in my opinion, is the superior school. I've been following the school and its mission since I was about 14 years old. So, for some of us, it was our dream school and I made it a point to know everything I could about the school before enrolling. That being said, HES has engaged in what I would consider some deceptive marketing practices and advertisements. There have been times where again, like I just said, students had no idea they were getting a degree in Extension Studies. The problem is you're getting a degree in something you didn't study and when you ask for clarification or help from administrators to make sure your degree is marketed correctly toward employers, they have every right to say even though your field is in English, your degree is in Extension Stuies, therefore,you don't have an English degree. That makes no sense and has serious implications particularly in the line of work I am in which is academia. There shouldn't be all this hoopla and a brouhaha over what was studied and where; it's simply a matter of making the degree make sense. 

This degree was my fifth, and I'm already in other programs at O.P. Jindal University, Golden Gate University, and Georgetown. The point remains no matter the school, in student government, it's my job to find where issues are and advocate for correcting them. None of the other schools I've ever attended had such convoluted naming conventions and nomenclature that made no sense. It is literally my JOB to fight for what the student body wants, and the biggest issue year after year is the nonsensical "Extension Studies" label.

People attend HES for a variety of reasons, namely to learn from the best and network with others to aid them in the future. I'd say HES is an intelligent choice. Also, I think your facts are incorrect about the level of difficulty in getting into some of the other schools. Sure, many folks are rejected, but the admission numbers are much higher than the college by a longshot and not all of the schools are created equal. The unique admissions system does not make HES a non-challenging school. It's a challenge to pay for the courses to get in and finish them, and attendance is mandatory, then meet the on campus requirements, and eventually graduating is the hardest of all. There is no hand-holding at HES, though at smaller cohorts at other schools, there often is.

I'm not saying there isn't a case against HES, because I've seen the misrepresentation multiple times. The problem is I don't think the case is strong enough to win for what folks would want to indict for. For that reason, I'm not willing to devote my time or resources to do a lawsuit. That being said, the biggest challenges for me have been explaining the degree to potential employers, and having rivals at other schools try to demean me. In both cases, I've come out on top, and I plan to continue to do so- but not everyone is as fiery and resilient is me, and I don't think the student body I represent should have to be. They completed a strict, rigid class load with some of the top professors in the world. They already earned their stars. BTW I graduated in May.

I would have to disagree with your statement of assumptions. I just pointed out some clear facts. By now everyone should be able to read English if they are applying for this degree. It's all over their website and catalog that students are signing up for a specific degree. Unfortunately, there is no catch-22 here when applying for the degree. It is clear as day that people know they were applying for a Masters in Liberal arts in Extension studies as their major with a concentration in a field. Now let's be real here as a teenager I am sure you dreamed of going to Harvard College but no one ever dreamed of going to Harvard Extension School..... But again let me not make any "assumptions" because it's your story to tell. I applaud all of your hard work and efforts but someone has to be real with people and bring people back to reality. It humors me that anyone would spend 40k+ on a degree in liberal arts to argue then that they studied a major... If you wanted to study the major in the first place go get a degree directly in that major such as a Master of Arts in Criminal Justice rather than a degree listed as Master of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies with a field... Many top 100 universities in the United States offer way cheaper degrees which are more respected and do not have these issues.

[Kjnova]

To me, this is a fair request and it would be fair for Harvard to agree or disagree. It's really up to them, I have no skin in the game. My personal preference would be to expand access beyond traditional students right out of high school. I think needs are changing all the time in society and that is an example of a changing need. I know Harvard also needs to weigh risk of brand dilution and so forth, so I don't have the answer for them, just that I think this is a fair thing for people to discuss or advocate.