Major career change, cosmetology to MSW/LMSW

[natshar]

Human Services Minor: http://catalog.umpi.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=6&poid=642&returnto=225

To obtain the Human Services minor you'd need one more course SWK 236 which maybe you could transfer in or get waived with a similar course sub or something. Or just forgo the Human Services minor and just do the BA Pysch and certificate.

I believe UMPI policy is that each minor requires 9 semester hours of unique credits that were not used for another major or minor. So adding a Human Services minor to a Psychology minor would require a total of 3 additional courses.

No I meant one additional course from the Human Services CERTIFICATE vs the minor. The certificate is all on YourPace, but there is one class that is requried for the minor that is not on yourpace (I think) so that would be the one you'd have to find. As it stands there is already over 9 credits different between the two easy. The BA psych doesn't require any SWK course this would be extra.

[Jonathan Whatley]

No I meant one additional course from the Human Services CERTIFICATE vs the minor. The certificate is all on YourPace, but there is one class that is requried for the minor that is not on yourpace (I think) so that would be the one you'd have to find. As it stands there is already over 9 credits different between the two easy. The BA psych doesn't require any SWK course this would be extra.

Oh! That answers my misapprehension, and it's a great idea.

[studyingfortests]

Wayne State has an *excellent* reputation in social work circles. If you live in MI, can attend in person, and are eligible for in-state tuition, it would be a great choice.

However, if you are out-of-state, I believe their tuition is about double, which makes it not a great value.

Keep in mind that since Wayne State is recognized nationwide as one of the best social work schools, admission is going to be highly competitive. In CA, all of the state classroom-based programs are heavily impacted, and get far more applicants than they can accept, resulting in many highly qualified applicants with a ton of experience, great GPA, and compelling Statement of Purpose get denied. I suspect Wayne State's in-person program is similar.

Online programs tend to have a lot more flexibility, because they can add sections and adjunct professors to teach them pretty much as needed. So, while I can't speak to Wayne State, specifically, many online programs have much more capacity and all qualified applicants can often be admitted. This doesn't mean it is a less rigorous program, just that there is more capacity.

If you are out of state, unless you've got the cash to pay for the program, I would not consider Wayne State due to cost.

I think you have great advice so far in completing the undergrad. A friend of mine had AP credits that were 10+ years old and he was able to get about 12 credits toward his degree that way, so I would highly recommend doing that, as well as doing the Sophia route. Two friends were able to get about 21 credits in a month's time, and the one who needed a lot of credits was able to sustain close to that for several months.

There are a number of pretty inexpensive online options for the MSW. I would not recommend counseling, as the scope of practice is more limited, and there is a shortage of MSWs, but in many areas, a glut of MFT/LPCs. So much so that at my school, there were several students who already had MFTs but were returning to school to get an MSW due to difficulty with job prospects.

Best of luck in your educational journey!

[bjcheung77]

There is always an option to search in-state institutions first for any online programs that may be affordable, then venture outwards to possible programs that are in the next state that may provide border counties or border states in-state pricing if the classes are going to be exclusively online anyways. I would do some research into the programs available and also have a couple or three backup options in case your top choices don't get back to you with a favorable admission.

[bonjourcat]

You might have more done than you think. If you have AP credits than you already have college credits. You said you dropped out after a semester. Did you complete any courses?

Also Michigan has the Michigan reconnect program. FREE community college if you are over 25. You could use this to take a few courses like maybe Intro to Social Work or something, might make things easier with grad school. Also maybe take your lab science in person too. And maybe even some of the pysch courses that can't be done via study.com or sophia. Just a thought. You could get an associate's degree with as little as 15 credits at CC (if you found one that accepts 45 credits by exam and used AP and CLEP for the rest. You don't have to do this because it is an extra step, but it might be at least work doing Intro SW at CC to be sure this is a career path you want to pursue. I know a good deal about Michigan CC's and have earned associates degrees from a few of them, message me for more info on that. I feel like I know their policies better than some of the people who work there, especially when it comes to exam credit. Message me if you need help with navigating Michigan CCs.

https://www.michigan.gov/reconnect

I would recommend the UMPI Psychology BA with a human services minor. You could also earn a certificate:
Gen Eds: https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/UMPI_!General_Education_Requirements_Roadmap

Major: https://www.umpi.edu/yourpace/academic_programs/ba-psychology/

Human Services Certification: https://www.umpi.edu/yourpace/academic_p...ification/

Human Services Minor: http://catalog.umpi.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=6&poid=642&returnto=225

To obtain the Human Services minor you'd need one more course SWK 236 which maybe you could transfer in or get waived with a similar course sub or something. Or just forgo the Human Services minor and just do the BA Pysch and certificate.

Ahh thank you this is super helpful! Thank you for including the part about the associates degree -- I'm so ready to leave my industry and I'd really like to start doing something else as soon as possible. Definitely going to be reading more on Human Services. I do know about Michigan ReConnect and I've looked into a few of the community colleges around me but I wasn't sure if that would extend my timeline or not. I mean I don't want to rush things but I'm also in a hurry if that makes sense.

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Thank you for your reply! Re: completing gen eds — is the ACE route similar to CLEP? I took five AP tests in high school with four 5’s and one 4 so I imagine I’m still a great test taker. I was wondering how easily or far I could CLEP myself forward, but I don’t know if that’s super lofty and I don’t want to skip anything that I really should take a class for. I’m mostly wanting to miss having to take the gen eds so your reply feels really spot on.

CLEP and AP are more or less also forms of alt-credit, but we sometimes talk about them as separate categories. CLEP and AP are accepted at more schools in total than the newer generation alt-credit such as Sophia via ACE.

As rachel83az indicated, AP scores are archived. I'm not seeing that there's any time limit on AP archiving. (CLEPs are deleted after 20 years.) You can order your archived AP transcript for $25.

You can expect those APs to cover some of your gen eds today!

Alt-credit programs like Sophia and Study.com are similar to CLEP in that they're largely self-study, generally self-paced, and usually culminate in an exam. Unlike CLEP, there are typically other required elements to complete the newer-gen alt-credit course: often open-book quizzes, sometimes written assignments. These are rarely onerous.

CLEP could still be part of your degree plan today, if there was a subject you'd rather fulfill by CLEP than alt-credit.

I used a mix of CLEP, CLEP-like exams (DSST, TECEP, and the late lamented UExcel and ECE), college courses, and alt-credit courses (including Sophia and Study.com), in my bachelor's.

As far as transferring from UMPI to WSU I’m assuming I can ask Wayne if they accept those transfer credits right? I’ve read conflicting information on “really super extra making sure your credits are legit and will transfer” etc. and I want to make sure I’m doing things the correct way so I don’t have to repeat anything.

Ah: Under this plan you wouldn't be transferring from UMPI to WSU. When you complete your bachelor's degree at one school, then apply for a master's at another school, you're not considered a transfer student and the credits in your bachelor's are not considered transfer credit.

The master's school generally will review your transcript, but except for special cases not really pertinent here, it will not audit it so closely as to consider whether or not each credit would be accepted in transfer in its own bachelor's program.

No time limit on AP is HUGE news! In order to put together a degree timeline what's the best way to go about doing that? I saw in a thread someone had put together a list of the courses/credits they needed to get a degree in a google doc. Am I overthinking it or is it that simple? Also what kind of time-frame range would getting a bachelor's take? I know with a master's there are other factors involved so I'm expecting at least two years to complete that. I wasn't even thinking about that you apply to a master's program instead of transferring into it. At Wayne State they offer an accelerated master's program because there's a lot of overlap between a BSW and MSW so in my head I was thinking I'd get an associates, then transfer to WSU and apply to the BSW/accelerated MSW program.

---

Wayne State has an *excellent* reputation in social work circles.  If you live in MI, can attend in person, and are eligible for in-state tuition, it would be a great choice.

However, if you are out-of-state, I believe their tuition is about double, which makes it not a great value.

Keep in mind that since Wayne State is recognized nationwide as one of the best social work schools, admission is going to be highly competitive. In CA, all of the state classroom-based programs are heavily impacted, and get far more applicants than they can accept, resulting in many highly qualified applicants with a ton of experience, great GPA, and compelling Statement of Purpose get denied.  I suspect Wayne State's in-person program is similar.  

Online programs tend to have a lot more flexibility, because they can add sections and adjunct professors to teach them pretty much as needed. So, while I can't speak to Wayne State, specifically, many online programs have much more capacity and all qualified applicants can often be admitted.  This doesn't mean it is a less rigorous program, just that there is more capacity.

If you are out of state, unless you've got the cash to pay for the program, I would not consider Wayne State due to cost.

I think you have great advice so far in completing the undergrad.  A friend of mine had AP credits that were 10+ years old and he was able to get about 12 credits toward his degree that way, so I would highly recommend doing that, as well as doing the Sophia route. Two friends were able to get about 21 credits in a month's time, and the one who needed a lot of credits was able to sustain close to that for several months.

There are a number of pretty inexpensive online options for the MSW. I would not recommend counseling, as the scope of practice is more limited, and there is a shortage of MSWs, but in many areas, a glut of MFT/LPCs.  So much so that at my school, there were several students who already had MFTs but were returning to school to get an MSW due to difficulty with job prospects.

Best of luck in your educational journey!

Thank you so much for your reply! Wayne is definitely within the realm of possibility for me because I'm in Michigan and they do have an online MSW program. If that doesn't work out there's always UofD and MSU which I could probably swing both in person if I absolutely needed to. When it comes to getting licensed and then finding a job, how important is it to employers where you got your master's?

And yes, all of the information re: AP credits is a pretty big deal, I figured those were gone forever!

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There is always an option to search in-state institutions first for any online programs that may be affordable, then venture outwards to possible programs that are in the next state that may provide border counties or border states in-state pricing if the classes are going to be exclusively online anyways.  I would do some research into the programs available and also have a couple or three backup options in case your top choices don't get back to you with a favorable admission.

This is really helpful information, thank you! I feel like this has all really helped light a path for me to follow and get started instead of having a bunch of disconnected information written down.

[bjcheung77]

Keep your options open and check out programs that may have an online component and an in-person internship... Here's an example option you may want to investigate further, I've written about this institution before and regularly get email from them after I contacted them for some other things: https://seu.edu/academics/programs/maste...cial-work/

[studyingfortests]

There is always an option to search in-state institutions first for any online programs that may be affordable, then venture outwards to possible programs that are in the next state that may provide border counties or border states in-state pricing if the classes are going to be exclusively online anyways.  I would do some research into the programs available and also have a couple or three backup options in case your top choices don't get back to you with a favorable admission.

The problem I ran into in researching online MSWs at state institutions that many of them are run by for-profit Online Program Managers like 2U. And so the tuition for these online programs, though at state institutions, is often ridicuously high. Case in point: Several of the California State universities that have both classroom and online programs have enormous price disparity, like ~8,000/year classroom and ~25,000 year online ... because the OPM takes a 50 to 60% cut.

So one has to look very closely at costs with these online progams. I, personslly, avoided OPM-run programs due to high cost.

Also, *all* MSW programs will require in-person practicums. There are increasingly rare exceptions, but in general, CSWE ( the accreditor) is discouraging the online practicums that were common during COVID-19. And I personally would be a little nervous about attending an MSW program with a 'Christian worldview' because that worldview, depending on how they interpret it, could be directly in conflict with some of the values of diversity and nondiscrimination that are fundamental to the social work profession. I have heard complaints in this regard about Liberty's MSW, and the SEU program seems to proclaim this front-ant-center. Definitely something I would want to have a clear discussion on with the school leadership.

[Jonathan Whatley]

No time limit on AP is HUGE news! In order to put together a degree timeline what's the best way to go about doing that? I saw in a thread someone had put together a list of the courses/credits they needed to get a degree in a google doc. Am I overthinking it or is it that simple?

It is that simple! The first step is listing the APs and, if any, courses you have credit for already.

Also what kind of time-frame range would getting a bachelor's take? I know with a master's there are other factors involved so I'm expecting at least two years to complete that.

UMPI YourPace and many of the other programs popular on degreeforum are broadly self-paced and highly accelerable. It's within reasonable possibility you can complete such a bachelor's less than one year from now.

By contrast, a BSW or MSW will not be self-paced in the sense of highly accelerable. Even if it's online it will follow fairly traditional academic semester schedules and practicum schedules, conforming with CSWE accreditation requirements. At some schools more than others you could use self-paced tactics to accelerate the non-social-work parts of a BSW degree. How you would do that would depend on practices at the specific school (e.g., what alt-credit they would accept or not accept in transfer).

I wasn't even thinking about that you apply to a master's program instead of transferring into it. At Wayne State they offer an accelerated master's program because there's a lot of overlap between a BSW and MSW so in my head I was thinking I'd get an associates, then transfer to WSU and apply to the BSW/accelerated MSW program.

The degreeforum community has worked out tactics and found from experience that programs like the UMPI YourPace bachelor's are so self-paced and accelerable that the time savings, compared to a traditional schedule, from accelerating a non-BSW bachelor's, then applying to a non-accelerated MSW, seem likely to equal or exceed the time savings from taking a traditional-schedule BSW, then an accelerated (advanced standing) MSW. The first option also seems likely to have cost savings.

[bonjourcat]

The degreeforum community has worked out tactics and found from experience that programs like the UMPI YourPace bachelor's are so self-paced and accelerable that the time savings, compared to a traditional schedule, from accelerating a non-BSW bachelor's, then applying to a non-accelerated MSW, seem likely to equal or exceed the time savings from taking a traditional-schedule BSW, then an accelerated (advanced standing) MSW. The first option also seems likely to have cost savings.

The time savings I think in my case outweighs the cost savings. We’ll have a kindergartener in two years and I know once she starts school full time it will be a lot harder for me to prioritize time to study and finish my degree. 

I think what felt most disappointing about my initial college experience was the lack of being able to do things at your own pace and a lot of it was stuff I had done in high school. IIRC MSU didn’t consider a passing AP test for credit and instead treated it like you tested out of the class. I wrote it all off because it seemed like such a waste of time and money and energy.

[Jonathan Whatley]

The time savings I think in my case outweighs the cost savings. We’ll have a kindergartener in two years and I know once she starts school full time it will be a lot harder for me to prioritize time to study and finish my degree. 

I think what felt most disappointing about my initial college experience was the lack of being able to do things at your own pace and a lot of it was stuff I had done in high school. IIRC MSU didn’t consider a passing AP test for credit and instead treated it like you tested out of the class. I wrote it all off because it seemed like such a waste of time and money and energy.

Your daughter will see you start and, if it's UMPI, have graduated or be close to graduating with your bachelor's before she starts kindergarten. She'll be excited to become a student like her mom!

And you were a strong student. Your first college wasn't the right fit for your strengths. Now you're going to work with better fits.