Yet another request for advice on schools.

[FurthestSights81]

Hey guys, I feel truly blessed to come across this forum and have been taking as much time to browse through some of the threads and wiki program plans when I can. This is a lot of information and I was wondering if someone here could provide some insight. I have attended community college in the past (2015) and have been working and saving for school  possibly to attend WGU in there Information Technology Management program. However, this forum has peaked my interest in the variety of other schools like TESU. I have a few courses that I passed in from community college. 

A little info:
- Mid 20's 
- Wanting to gain a bachelors degree preferably in STEM like comp Sci, CIS, MIS, or even accounting. 
- Main interest: I'm interested in science and stem subjects its hard to choose anything specific so I think my best option would be a degree that has a broad range of industries. I do love astronomy and have been studying it as well as observing the stars most nights. I realize astronomy is very specialized and I see mostly requires a PhD. I like the idea of being able to attend a grad school like Georgia Tech as I live around the area yet I dont want to get ahead of myself.
I have a couple courses I finished in community college. Some I passed but a couple I failed due to just being young and distracted. When I can access these transcripts I will post them. Based on WGU transcript evaluation for I.T. Management specifically. These courses could transfer: 
- English comp 101 which I recieved a ©
- College algebra in which I recieved a (B) WGU's  course equivalent is called "Applied Algebra"
- Music appreciation INTL I have an (A) in. WGU's equivalent is "introduction to humanities"

These 3 courses add up to 9 competency units awarded. which is 7.5% completion of the the program. Not much but its something. 

I had some questions.
I really like the idea of finishing my bachelors and going for a masters, but I don't want to get too ahead of myself as I even like the idea of a PhD and research but really wont know until I actually have the opportunity.
- What are your thoughts on TESU and the current course of action via Study.com/ SL, etc. VS WGU with the same approach? They both have a variety of undergrad programs. I find myself a little lost as to which I think is best. I have time to study, however I haven't been in school for a few years and don't want to overwhelm myself. What would you guys do?
- Also in regards to associates degrees. Do you guys think it may provide any advantage towards a Bachelors or should I just focus on the bachelors? which do you think would help in regards to time? I ask because a few threads I've read seem very welcoming, and provide very thorough experienced points of view.

[rachel83az]

WGU only has a handful of gen ed requirements. It can also be a lot of pressure if you've already failed some classes in the past. I'm not saying it's bad, but it's also not great if you're not already familiar with the subject(s) in question. It could, indeed, be overwhelming.

What about a combined Comp Sci/Mathematics degree from TESU. It wouldn't be the cheapest of options, but it would open a lot of doors if you're able to tackle the required math. If you're not sure about doing advanced calculus, even just the comp sci degree would be good.

While you're deciding, you could ease into schoolwork by getting a FREE Associate degree from Pierpont: https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/Pierpont_C%26TC With the courses you've already completed, you could finish up a Pierpont degree in 2-3 months for a total cost of $158-$237 + transcript fees from your old community college. If you're still making up your mind, try to stick to courses that could also work for both WGU or TESU. There's not a LOT of overlap, because WGU doesn't have many gen eds, but there is some. https://degreeforum.miraheze.org/wiki/So...lency_List Avoid the database course, though, because it's a hassle and takes too long to complete.

Normally, an Associate isn't worth all that much. But sometimes students need a little boost to show that they really CAN get the degree that they've been dreaming of. So go for it, if you really want it.

[dfrecore]

I think in general, an Associates is a distraction from a Bachelor's degree (which is why many 4 yr schools don't offer them); but with Pierpont, it's easy enough to get with the courses you'd take for a bachelor's anyway.

You mentioned STEM but Accounting in the same line - Accounting is definitely not a STEM degree. It's a business degree, which is perfectly acceptable, but not STEM. So I think you need to do a bit more research to see what you actually want to do.

I think for someone who doesn't have a ton of confidence and experience in college, WGU/UMPI might be a difficult option. So, instead, I might look at TESU's BSBA/CIS degree, which can be done entirely with alt-credit + 15cr more of RA which can be done inexpensively. TESU is going to cost $6,654 for 6cr there and fees + cost of courses

The other option is EC, which doesn't require any RA credit. That degree would be $4,031 for 7cr there and fees + cost of courses.

I'm going to suggest UMPI rather than WGU, because you can get a BLS/MIS or PM degree, and if you hate it, you've only "wasted" $1,400, and can transfer courses to TESU or EC. WGU is $4,000 for a 6mo term, and if you find that you are unhappy with a CBE program, you're out a lot of money.

[LevelUP]

Both TESU and WGU are good options.

TESU BSBA CIS would be similar to WGU BS Business Admin IT management

If you did the TESU BSBA CIS, you could also do the Associate's in Computer Science Degree, which would require virtually no extra work or extra cost.

TESU also has a BA in Computer Science.  If you get this degree, you could also get the Associates in Math or/and Associates in Business you could get with a bit of extra work.

The BSBA CIS concentration lines up close to the required BA Computer Science courses in the AOS, so if you weren't sure which way to go, you could just take courses that will allow you to choose a path later.  When you are taking Sophia courses, make sure to take accounting, business law, principles of finance, intro IT, macroeconomics, microeconomics, and stats.

[FurthestSights81]

Normally, an Associate isn't worth all that much. But sometimes students need a little boost to show that they really CAN get the degree that they've been dreaming of. So go for it, if you really want it.

Wow! I really appreciate how clear you explained this for me. I mean Pierpont does seem like it would be great as a boost to continue working towards other higher education. I notice that you're working towards your computer science degree. How is it so far? Did you stick with the wiki plan or go at a little differently? I'm really thinking about doing this.

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Both TESU and WGU are good options.

TESU BSBA CIS would be similar to WGU BS Business Admin IT management

If you did the TESU BSBA CIS, you could also do the Associate's in Computer Science Degree, which would require virtually no extra work or extra cost.

Thanks for the explanation!  I like both of those options though I lean more towards CIS. The associates degrees really bring more variety. Also what would you think about acquiring both Bachelors degrees since they both are so close?

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I think in general, an Associates is a distraction from a Bachelor's degree (which is why many 4 yr schools don't offer them); but with Pierpont, it's easy enough to get with the courses you'd take for a bachelor's anyway.

You mentioned STEM but Accounting in the same line - Accounting is definitely not a STEM degree.  It's a business degree, which is perfectly acceptable, but not STEM.  So I think you need to do a bit more research to see what you actually want to do.

I think for someone who doesn't have a ton of confidence and experience in college, WGU/UMPI might be a difficult option.  So, instead, I might look at TESU's BSBA/CIS degree, which can be done entirely with alt-credit + 15cr more of RA which can be done inexpensively.  TESU is going to cost $6,654 for 6cr there and fees + cost of courses

Thank you so much for breaking this down! I actually wanted to put accounting in there as well because even though its not technically stem I am also interested in it. I really think I might go with TESU for BSBA CIS. as far as the 15 RA credits do you have a personal preference on where you would obtain these?

[bjcheung77]

Ahem <burp>, had to get that out of my system, thank goodness it wasn't a fart... So, you're a young'un at the tender age of 23-27 or something, you don't seem to have much in terms of certs or experience, just starting off your associates degree, and wanting to ladder that up to a higher degree such as a Bachelors. You have a big set of goals and have a direction of getting to that, but seem a bit lost on "how" to proceed.

I agree (without knowing much more about you such as your commitments, family/work, etc... you might want to give us more details my friend) competency based degrees may NOT be for you at this time, I think you're a great candidate for the Big 3, especially when you want to go, for Accounting/CIS. My suggestion for the 15 RA credits are whatever you currently bring to the table at the community college, plus whatever else is missing for your "degree".

My suggestion is to take a BSBA Accounting/CIS double AOS, take 16 credits for residency and skip that residency waiver fee. The 15 remaining RA credits you need to bring in through community college, ONU/TEL, UEXCELS/TECEPS. I would skip the Pierpoint AAS and just add an ASNSM Computer Science to your degree plan at TESU, the CIS AOS will cover those credits just fine. If you want to add an ASNSM Math, that will work as well (total cost for both AA/BSBA is what dfrecore mentioned)...

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Oh, in regards to getting a second WGU BS ITM, skip it my friend... go for the WGU MS ITM instead! I highly recommend everyone to get a competency based Masters vs a second bachelors, as the second bachelors is going to cost roughly equal or similar as the Masters, but the Masters will trump a Bachelors any day of the week.

[FurthestSights81]

Ahem <burp>, had to get that out of my system, thank goodness it wasn't a fart...  So, you're a young'un at the tender age of 23-27 or something, you don't seem to have much in terms of certs or experience, just starting off your associates degree, and wanting to ladder that up to a higher degree such as a Bachelors.  You have a big set of goals and have a direction of getting to that, but seem a bit lost on "how" to proceed.  

I agree (without knowing much more about you such as your commitments, family/work, etc... you might want to give us more details my friend) competency based degrees may NOT be for you at this time, I think you're a great candidate for the Big 3, especially when you want to go, for Accounting/CIS.  My suggestion for the 15 RA credits are whatever you currently bring to the table at the community college, plus whatever else is missing for your "degree".

My suggestion is to take a BSBA Accounting/CIS double AOS, take 16 credits for residency and skip that residency waiver fee.  The 15 remaining RA credits you need to bring in through community college, ONU/TEL, UEXCELS/TECEPS.   I would skip the Pierpoint AAS and just add an ASNSM Computer Science to your degree plan at TESU, the CIS AOS will cover those credits just fine.  If you want to add an ASNSM Math, that will work as well (total cost for both AA/BSBA is what dfrecore mentioned)...

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Oh, in regards to getting a second WGU BS ITM, skip it my friend... go for the WGU MS ITM instead!  I highly recommend everyone to get a competency based Masters vs a second bachelors, as the second bachelors is going to cost roughly equal or similar as the Masters, but the Masters will trump a Bachelors any day of the week.

haha I honestly laughed out loud to hat first sentence. Thanks so much for your explanation!  I really like this plan as I have been leaning more towards CIS but also accounting. And I like the recommended supplemental ASNSM in computer Science. I notice people are saying to skip TESU's waiver how exactly does that work with regards to FASFA? Also I was wondering does AOS mean area of study? sorry for so many questions.

[rachel83az]

Wow! I really appreciate how clear you explained this for me. I mean Pierpont does seem like it would be great as a boost to continue working towards other higher education. I notice that you're working towards your computer science degree. How is it so far? Did you stick with the wiki plan or go at a little differently? I'm really thinking about doing this.

I'm not as far as I would have liked. I should have graduated by now. But that's not the fault of anything related to academics. Life keeps throwing me curveballs. Otherwise, the degree process has been fine! I'm mostly sticking to the wiki. There have been a few deviations and tangents because, again, curveballs.

Thanks for the explanation!  I like both of those options though I lean more towards CIS. The associates degrees really bring more variety. Also what would you think about acquiring both Bachelors degrees since they both are so close?

If you want to get both Computer Science and CIS, I would personally recommend it. One is a business degree and the other is not. This should pretty much cover your bases when it comes to obtaining employment in the future. Some jobs might expect a business degree and not a CS degree. Or vice versa. 

Thank you so much for breaking this down! I actually wanted to put accounting in there as well because even though its not technically stem I am also interested in it. I really think I might go with TESU for BSBA CIS. as far as the 15 RA credits do you have a personal preference on where you would obtain these?

If you go for Comp Sci, the best way to do this is to do a 16-credit-term at TESU. For computer science, this means taking the following courses in one term: 

• Cornerstone - must be taken no matter what; can be 90-99% completed in the first week.
  
• Capstone - must be taken no matter what; this will be your main focus. If you cannot complete it, paying a couple hundred for the extension fee still works out to being cheaper than paying the residency waiver. 
  
• CIS-107 ePack - This is a single exam that requires little to no study. 
  
• CIS-351 Software engineering - Although upper level, this class can be completed in 20-30 hours. 
  
• ART-100 or some other easy 100 or 200 level course - Could be another ePack exam, if desired. Choose something easy so that you can focus on the Capstone.
  
• PLA-100 - A short 1-credit course that is only here to bring your total up to 16. 16 is the magic number of credits to take at TESU so that they don't charge you the resiency waiver.
  

If you take 9 or more credits in a single term, you'll pay a flat rate of $4639. If you only take the capstone & cornerstone at TESU, you'd pay $519 x 6 credits for the two classes ($3114) + the residency waiver fee of $3192 = $6306.

Although 16 credits sounds like a lot, these courses have been chosen for ease and maximum impact on your degree progress. In the first week, you'd complete as much of the cornerstone as possible, mostly just leaving the weekly discussion posts to be completed on a weekly basis. You'd also spend a few hours completely finishing PLA-100. In the second week, you'd work on finishing CIS-351 in its entirety and take the CIS-107 exam. From the third week on, you'd do ART-100 (or your chosen class), the weekly posts for the cornerstone, and work on the capstone. This brings the 16-credit-term down to a more reasonable 6-9 credit term. And, again, you are able to request an 8-week extension, if needed, for the capstone. This costs $236.

haha I honestly laughed out loud to hat first sentence. Thanks so much for your explanation!  I really like this plan as I have been leaning more towards CIS but also accounting. And I like the recommended supplemental ASNSM in computer Science. I notice people are saying to skip TESU's waiver how exactly does that work with regards to FASFA? Also I was wondering does AOS mean area of study? sorry for so many questions.

Yes, AOS means Area of Study.

Financial aid will not pay for the residency waiver at all. bjcheung77 has some posts about how to maximize your financial aid, especially while pursuing multiple degrees. If you're doing two degrees that each require a different capstone (which the CIS and Comp Sci degrees do), then the simplest answer is to split the one 16-credit term into two or three 9-credit-terms. When you have financial aid, this can work out to be cheaper than taking all of your courses elsewhere and paying out of pocket. 

If you're doing CIS and Computer Science, you're going to want to finish your CIS degree first because of how TESU deals with degrees. It is allowed to get both degrees at once, but TESU tries to heavily discourage it for no particular reason except that they both happen to have computer courses in the AOS. If you do two 9-credit terms, I would probably do the cornerstone and BSBA capstone during the first term and then the BA capstone during the second term. If you do three 9-credit terms, you'd probably want to do the cornerstone & any desired UL courses during the first term, the BSBA capstone during the second, and the BA capstone during the third. Because, again, TESU will let you have both degrees. But they're weird about it.

Also, for English Comp II, it's strongly recommended that you take the TECEP exam for $150. Or, if you live near a CLEP testing center, take the CLEP College Composition exam. These are the easiest/quickest ways to get your English Comp II credit.

[FurthestSights81]

Financial aid will not pay for the residency waiver at all. bjcheung77 has some posts about how to maximize your financial aid, especially while pursuing multiple degrees. If you're doing two degrees that each require a different capstone (which the CIS and Comp Sci degrees do), then the simplest answer is to split the one 16-credit term into two or three 9-credit-terms. When you have financial aid, this can work out to be cheaper than taking all of your courses elsewhere and paying out of pocket. 

If you're doing CIS and Computer Science, you're going to want to finish your CIS degree first because of how TESU deals with degrees. It is allowed to get both degrees at once, but TESU tries to heavily discourage it for no particular reason except that they both happen to have computer courses in the AOS. If you do two 9-credit terms, I would probably do the cornerstone and BSBA capstone during the first term and then the BA capstone during the second term. If you do three 9-credit terms, you'd probably want to do the cornerstone & any desired UL courses during the first term, the BSBA capstone during the second, and the BA capstone during the third. Because, again, TESU will let you have both degrees. But they're weird about it.

Also, for English Comp II, it's strongly recommended that you take the TECEP exam for $150. Or, if you live near a CLEP testing center, take the CLEP College Composition exam. These are the easiest/quickest ways to get your English Comp II credit.

I read this response earlier and have been thinking of how I would respond once I have free time. I honestly can't thank you enough you've given me more information than my advisors in community college would with an appointment lol. Straight to the point as well as  different ways to approach. I really feel like I can do this. Now to just figure out when and where to start lol. And I totally understand life always has its surprises and curveballs, but I wish you the best and eventually you will have it finished

[rachel83az]

You're welcome! We do try to be helpful here, especially since TESU advisors can be extremely unhelpful. Like, anti-helpful! By the way, I forgot to mention, but the CLEP exams are free if you use ModernStates. While you can, theoretically, take the CLEP exams online and from home, it's not really recommended due to privacy concerns with the specific proctor that they use. The proctors used by TESU, Study.com, Davar, and Coopersmith are all different.

Also, if you're very, very ambitious, you could get BA Math, BA CS, BSBA CIS, AND BSBA Accounting all at the same time. TESU only counts this as 2 degrees and, if you plan it right, the electives for one BA count as the AOS for the other; similar with the BSBA degrees. What I would suggest doing would be to make a spreadsheet, using the wiki as your guide, to help you determine potential costs and whether you even want to go to all that extra effort.