Degree Completion Advice Pierpont/TESU

[shadowgem]

Also he may want to look into WGU as an option.  It is free to apply, and with all those CS courses he already has he may find a IT degree that aligns well with what he already knows and has earned credits in.  They have so many options https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees.html#

Excellent suggestion. He actually looked at WGU prior to starting his program at Baker. Their Software Dev program however required certs (he did not need or have) for admission, as well as being more IT based. Their new program in CS is definitely a much better fit for his interests and almost identical to his current program with Baker. If he elects to complete the BS Tech Studies it certainly may be worth revisiting. However it is also rumored they are working on developing a Masters in CS program, so that may be an even better option down the road.

---

Did Nancy tell you that you couldn't enroll and take courses at TESU while waiting for the BOS AAS degree to confer? I'd double check that before assuming you can't.

Also, I'm pretty sure he could get the ASNSM in Dec and work on the BACS for March graduation all for one residency waiver.

No this did not come from Nancy, but he planned to ask her when he gets his next day off of work. We actually read that in a post by someone here. I'll see if I can find what I read here that lead us to worry about this potential conflict.

---

If he has not applied yet to TESU then you should apply for the BS Technical Studies - it has the more complex evaluation (as it is more a specialty/individualized AOS).  You can ask them after that to add the eval for the BSCS which could be evaluated as fast as one day after the initial BSTS is completed.

Whew! He has already applied and he did apply for the BS Technical Studies. Glad he opted for the right one lol

---

Did Nancy tell you that you couldn't enroll and take courses at TESU while waiting for the BOS AAS degree to confer? I'd double check that before assuming you can't.

Also, I'm pretty sure he could get the ASNSM in Dec and work on the BACS for March graduation all for one residency waiver.

Double post. Stupid phone.

---

This degree needs to be your first college degree. There is no workaround.

Do they just check your transcripts to see if you graduated? I just sent off my transcripts to them. I graduate with an AA at the end of this semester. My transcript from the local CC doesn't show that I've graduated yet.  Is it likely that they will deny me because of this?

They check the Clearinghouse to see if you are enrolled or have graduated with a degree. You're also ineligible if you are already enrolled in another degree program.

From the College Foundation of West Virginia site: "Admission Requirements:

Students are eligible for admission to the program two years after high school graduation. Students must not hold a degree from an accredited institution nor be enrolled simultaneously in another degree program." https://secure.cfwv.com/Home/Board_of_Governors.aspx

Sorry, bud. I don't think you are going to be able to squeak through.

This was the post we read after he had already applied to the BOG AAS program that raised concerns. It appears to be saying he would be ineligible for the BOG AAS if he enrolled in TESU to take any courses or the capstone prior to conferral. Unless I am misinterpreting what it is saying there?

[bjcheung77]

Wow, that's a lengthy read, great advice as well - Questions for you and the hubby: How busy are you? How much time do you have to spend on studying? Do you have family/kids that you have to attend to? How much have you two decided to budget or invest in his education? Where are you residing now and where is the "new job prospect" going to be located?

BTW, I noticed that the two of you want a bit more "better value" by adding in Certs/Associates to the Bachelors. Who's the brain behind this degree planning, is it you or the hubby? The planning is great, you're well informed, do you have a degree already? Here are my recommendations. In short - Skip certs (for now), get two Associates first, get the job next, go for the Bachelors.

1) Do not go for the BOG AAS as it's a terminal degree, many people who use that do not transfer to any other program but ladder it to a WV Regents BA (no specialization). It is useless at this point as I recommend your hubby finish ASNSM in Biology and ASNSM Math. Finish 4 required Biology (Nutrition, A&P I+II, Microbiol) at SL, take Study.com Calculus for 6 credits, Math 101+102 for the final 6 credits required for the ASNSM Math.

2) You have one year to complete both the BACS/BS Tech Studies, complete the requirements accordingly by overlapping course credits (Comp Sci courses with other Comp Sci, Math with Math, etc) and the final step is work on BOTH capstone courses last at the same time. While you're taking courses, look into the Cert CIS and Cert CS, the requirements for both should be part of your BACS or BS Tech Studies degree, get those two certs at the same time before you apply for graduation for the BA/BS.

So, in the end, you will have 2 Certs (CIS, CS), 2 ASNSM (Bio/Math), 2 Bachelors (BACS & BS Tech Studies). If you answer my questions above, we'll know more info on how to proceed with the Certs and the Bachelors - this should be done AFTER your Associates and getting that "new job".

Cheers, Best of luck...

[Tedium]

Also he may want to look into WGU as an option.  It is free to apply, and with all those CS courses he already has he may find a IT degree that aligns well with what he already knows and has earned credits in.  They have so many options https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees.html#

Excellent suggestion. He actually looked at WGU prior to starting his program at Baker. Their Software Dev program however required certs (he did not need or have) for admission, as well as being more IT based. Their new program in CS is definitely a much better fit for his interests and almost identical to his current program with Baker. If he elects to complete the BS Tech Studies it certainly may be worth revisiting. However it is also rumored they are working on developing a Masters in CS program, so that may be an even better option down the road.

---

Did Nancy tell you that you couldn't enroll and take courses at TESU while waiting for the BOS AAS degree to confer? I'd double check that before assuming you can't.

Also, I'm pretty sure he could get the ASNSM in Dec and work on the BACS for March graduation all for one residency waiver.

No this did not come from Nancy, but he planned to ask her when he gets his next day off of work. We actually read that in a post by someone here. I'll see if I can find what I read here that lead us to worry about this potential conflict.

---

If he has not applied yet to TESU then you should apply for the BS Technical Studies - it has the more complex evaluation (as it is more a specialty/individualized AOS).  You can ask them after that to add the eval for the BSCS which could be evaluated as fast as one day after the initial BSTS is completed.

Whew! He has already applied and he did apply for the BS Technical Studies. Glad he opted for the right one lol

---

Did Nancy tell you that you couldn't enroll and take courses at TESU while waiting for the BOS AAS degree to confer? I'd double check that before assuming you can't.

Also, I'm pretty sure he could get the ASNSM in Dec and work on the BACS for March graduation all for one residency waiver.

Double post. Stupid phone.

---

This degree needs to be your first college degree. There is no workaround.

Do they just check your transcripts to see if you graduated? I just sent off my transcripts to them. I graduate with an AA at the end of this semester. My transcript from the local CC doesn't show that I've graduated yet.  Is it likely that they will deny me because of this?

They check the Clearinghouse to see if you are enrolled or have graduated with a degree. You're also ineligible if you are already enrolled in another degree program.

From the College Foundation of West Virginia site: "Admission Requirements:

Students are eligible for admission to the program two years after high school graduation. Students must not hold a degree from an accredited institution nor be enrolled simultaneously in another degree program." https://secure.cfwv.com/Home/Board_of_Governors.aspx

Sorry, bud. I don't think you are going to be able to squeak through.

This was the post we read after he had already applied to the BOG AAS program that raised concerns. It appears to be saying he would be ineligible for the BOG AAS if he enrolled in TESU to take any courses or the capstone prior to conferral. Unless I am misinterpreting what it is saying there?

That’s my understanding of the BOG rules. There may be a chance due to the nature of the program that they may not check, but they say they do, so I would base any decisions made about the BOG AAS on what they say the rules are.

It may be like when some employers say they will drug test to scare off bad applicants, but they never administer the test. But if the BOG AAS is important to you guys, why take the chance? Get confirmation of course, but that’s my two cents.

Honestly, you’ve gotten some really solid advice in this thread, and you may not have to even worry about Pierpont if you decide to go the TESU route. Waiting on Pierpont might kill any momentum you have going and slow you down in a period where you need to be ramping up.

[shadowgem]

Wow, that's a lengthy read, great advice as well - Questions for you and the hubby: How busy are you? How much time do you have to spend on studying?  Do you have family/kids that you have to attend to?  How much have you two decided to budget or invest in his education?  Where are you residing now and where is the "new job prospect" going to be located?

BTW, I noticed that the two of you want a bit more "better value" by adding in Certs/Associates to the Bachelors.  Who's the brain behind this degree planning, is it you or the hubby?  The planning is great, you're well informed, do you have a degree already? Here are my recommendations.  In short - Skip certs (for now), get two Associates first, get the job next, go for the Bachelors.

1) Do not go for the BOG AAS as it's a terminal degree, many people who use that do not transfer to any other program but ladder it to a WV Regents BA (no specialization).  It is useless at this point as I recommend your hubby finish ASNSM in Biology and ASNSM Math.  Finish 4 required Biology (Nutrition, A&P I+II, Microbiol) at SL, take Study.com Calculus for 6 credits, Math 101+102 for the final 6 credits required for the ASNSM Math.

2) You have one year to complete both the BACS/BS Tech Studies, complete the requirements accordingly by overlapping course credits (Comp Sci courses with other Comp Sci, Math with Math, etc) and the final step is work on BOTH capstone courses last at the same time.  While you're taking courses, look into the Cert CIS and Cert CS, the requirements for both should be part of your BACS or BS Tech Studies degree, get those two certs at the same time before you apply for graduation for the BA/BS.

So, in the end, you will have 2 Certs (CIS, CS), 2 ASNSM (Bio/Math), 2 Bachelors (BACS & BS Tech Studies).  If you answer my questions above, we'll know more info on how to proceed with the Certs and the Bachelors - this should be done AFTER your Associates and getting that "new job".  

Cheers, Best of luck...

Absolutely, the advice has been so helpful already! This community never ceases to impress me with its incredible insight and generous help. We are sincerely appreciative. 

Hubby typically works 60+ hours per week and has been attending full time staggered courses online to meet financial aid requirements at Baker. After several years of doing this, major scheduling difficulties with his current school to get the last few remaining classes he has to go completed, and more demand for overtime recently he is exhausted and frustrated. He has worked unbelievably hard and invested countless hours and money so far into his education. So yes, he certainly would like that to have been worth it in the end, I am sure lol 

He has currently opted for a short break to reevulate his options...and get more than 2-3 hours sleep per night lol We currently live in the middle of nowhere WV with a population of under 1K. The BOG AAS is an in state degree program for him, so not nearly as terminal as it may be for some out of state residents. Unless he gets this job and we do relocate. 

He already travels 3 hours roundtrip each day for work lol One major concern (beyond cost) in completing his current program is the required internship since there would be none available anywhere near where we live. The new position is in the DC Metro area and offers relocation assistance, a generous starting bonus that he could use to pay down his horrifying student loan debt, 2x his current salary, and is five minutes from where his family currently resides. We have estimated that he will need somewhere between 3-7K to finish his degree through TESU, which is considerably less than what he would need to spend if he continues on with Baker. This budget ofc is dependent on just how many courses he needs to complete which program at TESU. He will choose whichever is fastest, which is what we have not yet been able to sort out on our own.

I am doing my best to help him plan the most affordable and fastest path, keeping both his short term needs as well as his long term goals in mind. He already has met the requirements for the CIS Cert and the ASNSM in CS. If he opts to do just the BS Technical Studies, I think he can finish everything we identified he was missing by December and then graduate in March if he gets started right away with a BS Tech Studies, ASNSM CS and ASNSM Bio and the Cert in CIS. Learning and studying anything comes naturally and easily to him so the more self paced options he has the better. His main challenges have boiled down to the limits he faces with course schedules and working with the financial aid/semester guidelines. 

The only reason he planned to them all at once was to avoid paying more than 1 residency waiver. If he in fact can go ahead and graduate in Dec with both Associates and the Cert and then finish up either of the Bachelors soon after as davewill suggested may be possible, that would be amazing. And yes, then there is no need to move forward with the BOG AAS at all. On the other hand if that is not possible than the BOG AAS is possibly is only way of getting his foot in the door to this position before next Spring or Summer. 

Is there any reason to delay the Cert in CIS until after he completes the BA/BS? I did't see any courses he was missing from that, but I could be mistaken. If he actually can go ahead and get one or two of the ASNSM from TESU by December without paying twice for the residency waiver?

Also, I don't want him to be overwhelmed. Doing two capstones at one times sounds terrifying lol Or is this really not much different than taking any two courses simultaneously?

Thank you so much for the suggestions. I will certainly suggest the math option as well. He loves both maths and sciences. I'm not sure which would be more useful to him. I am inclined to think the additional work in biology would have more payoff both in the short and long term. When working with liquefied natural gas which is within his current employment goal, having a solid understanding of the potential impacts on biological resources is part of the responsibilities of technicians. Also, his future plans possibly involve Human Factors Engineering at the graduate level. This again is a field where biology potentially plays a major role in both research and development of future technology.

---

Also he may want to look into WGU as an option.  It is free to apply, and with all those CS courses he already has he may find a IT degree that aligns well with what he already knows and has earned credits in.  They have so many options https://www.wgu.edu/online-it-degrees.html#

Excellent suggestion. He actually looked at WGU prior to starting his program at Baker. Their Software Dev program however required certs (he did not need or have) for admission, as well as being more IT based. Their new program in CS is definitely a much better fit for his interests and almost identical to his current program with Baker. If he elects to complete the BS Tech Studies it certainly may be worth revisiting. However it is also rumored they are working on developing a Masters in CS program, so that may be an even better option down the road.

---

Did Nancy tell you that you couldn't enroll and take courses at TESU while waiting for the BOS AAS degree to confer? I'd double check that before assuming you can't.

Also, I'm pretty sure he could get the ASNSM in Dec and work on the BACS for March graduation all for one residency waiver.

No this did not come from Nancy, but he planned to ask her when he gets his next day off of work. We actually read that in a post by someone here. I'll see if I can find what I read here that lead us to worry about this potential conflict.

---

If he has not applied yet to TESU then you should apply for the BS Technical Studies - it has the more complex evaluation (as it is more a specialty/individualized AOS).  You can ask them after that to add the eval for the BSCS which could be evaluated as fast as one day after the initial BSTS is completed.

Whew! He has already applied and he did apply for the BS Technical Studies. Glad he opted for the right one lol

---

Did Nancy tell you that you couldn't enroll and take courses at TESU while waiting for the BOS AAS degree to confer? I'd double check that before assuming you can't.

Also, I'm pretty sure he could get the ASNSM in Dec and work on the BACS for March graduation all for one residency waiver.

Double post. Stupid phone.

---

This degree needs to be your first college degree. There is no workaround.

Do they just check your transcripts to see if you graduated? I just sent off my transcripts to them. I graduate with an AA at the end of this semester. My transcript from the local CC doesn't show that I've graduated yet.  Is it likely that they will deny me because of this?

They check the Clearinghouse to see if you are enrolled or have graduated with a degree. You're also ineligible if you are already enrolled in another degree program.

From the College Foundation of West Virginia site: "Admission Requirements:

Students are eligible for admission to the program two years after high school graduation. Students must not hold a degree from an accredited institution nor be enrolled simultaneously in another degree program." https://secure.cfwv.com/Home/Board_of_Governors.aspx

Sorry, bud. I don't think you are going to be able to squeak through.

This was the post we read after he had already applied to the BOG AAS program that raised concerns. It appears to be saying he would be ineligible for the BOG AAS if he enrolled in TESU to take any courses or the capstone prior to conferral. Unless I am misinterpreting what it is saying there?

That’s my understanding of the BOG rules. There may be a chance due to the nature of the program that they may not check, but they say they do, so I would base any decisions made about the BOG AAS on what they say the rules are.

It may be like when some employers say they will drug test to scare off bad applicants, but they never administer the test. But if the BOG AAS is important to you guys, why take the chance? Get confirmation of course, but that’s my two cents.

Honestly, you’ve gotten some really solid advice in this thread, and you may not have to even worry about Pierpont if you decide to go the TESU route. Waiting on Pierpont might kill any momentum you have going and slow you down in a period where you need to be ramping up.

Thank you Tedium. 

Yes it seemed fairly clear to me as well that it wants your focus to be solely on the BOG AAS until conferral. And regardless of what they verify ...if that is the intention of the program it would not be ethical to violate regardless of what they check. Even if they didn't know, he would. I doubt that would sit well with him. That's why he wanted to confirm his understanding with Nancy prior to moving forward. 

I think it really boils down to which school can help him confer a degree this year to ensure he at least has a shot at the new job opportunity. Our understanding is TESU takes around a month to complete evaluations, so this was of course another reason why he wanted to see what he could/should be working on in the meantime that did not require enrollment into TESU right away. I am fairly certain the degree at Pierpont is complete and Nancy did confirm she sees no reason why it would not be as well. The program policies however create a challenge for him completing anything else in the meantime, unless they are independent study courses.

 I will be sure to update everyone here once Nancy confirms or advises otherwise when he has a chance to speak with her again on this policy.

[bjcheung77]

Shadowgem, I have homework for you (man, that's like my catchphrase on here). Do you have a spreadsheet created to document what courses are required for which cert, associates, bachelors? If not, make one! Read post 27/28 in the Beginners Guide and get a copy of the My Degree Plan! spreadsheet, I made that specifically for my cousin who wanted certs to go along with 2 associates, 2 bachelors. It's not easy to picture how far along your husband is and how many credits/courses he requires without one...

I usually tell people to use the My Degree Plan! worksheet as their own and the rest are used as a reference template, however; in your case, you can modify the Certs/Associates/Bachelors and use the My Degree Plan! as a reference for which course goes where... from a quick glance last time, he requires 4 courses for ASNSM Bio and 4 for ASNSM Math... document it completely. If you already have a spreadsheet, post it so I can see what may be done to get things completed faster.

Basically, this is the reason I tell my cousin - and now, you/your hubby, why I would recommend the Bio+Math vs a Comp Sci, it's because of subject specialization and recognition of those subjects in an Associates degree. The Comp Sci is available to you already through either Bachelors and through the CIS/CS certs. For Bio and Math, neither of them have a Cert option at TESU, and the Biology BA is hard to complete through test out options.

Not everyone would do this, but for my cousin, he wanted more subject specializations (two secondary subjects) and one major specialization. He also wanted a BALS NSM with mainly CS/CIS courses. So I said to him, he can focus on his BSBA GM/CIS and on his way to that degree, pick up ASNSM Bio and Math. He can also use 9 credits AOS credits and 90 credits from the BSBA into his BALS NSM and pick up the CIS/CS certs, and that's where the spreadsheet comes into play, it shows how it's done to max overlapping credit.

I recommend finishing the two ASNSM right away - your hubby can finish those required courses from SL/Study.com all in one month if he is taking his time off from work and using that downtime correctly, apply for graduation before Oct 1 and complete everything by the end of October, so he can transfer them into the two ASNSM for December graduation. If he has the time, he can do the CS/CIS certs as well, it's not a priority, it can be completed before the Bachelors - but I recommend more time should be spent on finishing the Bachelors.

Final thoughts: I think having ASNSM Bio and Math, along with the CIS/CS certificates would be more marketable for prospective jobs, it should look better on a resume than having an Associates Comp Sci, a redundant CIS/CS certificates and a BS Tech Studies with mainly CS/CIS courses showing on the transcript. Furthermore, there are secondary specializations he'll be qualified for, instead of just CS/CIS related positions.

[shadowgem]

Shadowgem, I have homework for you (man, that's like my catchphrase on here).  Do you have a spreadsheet created to document what courses are required for which cert, associates, bachelors?  If not, make one!  Read post 27/28 in the Beginners Guide and get a copy of the My Degree Plan! spreadsheet, I made that specifically for my cousin who wanted certs to go along with 2 associates, 2 bachelors.  It's not easy to picture how far along your husband is and how many credits/courses he requires without one...

I usually tell people to use the My Degree Plan! worksheet as their own and the rest are used as a reference template, however; in your case, you can modify the Certs/Associates/Bachelors and use the My Degree Plan! as a reference for which course goes where... from a quick glance last time, he requires 4 courses for ASNSM Bio and 4 for ASNSM Math... document it completely.  If you already have a spreadsheet, post it so I can see what may be done to get things completed faster.

Basically, this is the reason I tell my cousin - and now, you/your hubby, why I would recommend the Bio+Math vs a Comp Sci, it's because of subject specialization and recognition of those subjects in an Associates degree.  The Comp Sci is available to you already through either Bachelors and through the CIS/CS certs.  For Bio and Math, neither of them have a Cert option at TESU, and the Biology BA is hard to complete through test out options.

Not everyone would do this, but for my cousin, he wanted more subject specializations (two secondary subjects) and one major specialization.  He also wanted a BALS NSM with mainly CS/CIS courses.  So I said to him, he can focus on his BSBA GM/CIS and on his way to that degree, pick up ASNSM Bio and Math.  He can also use 9 credits AOS credits and 90 credits from the BSBA into his BALS NSM and pick up the CIS/CS certs, and that's where the spreadsheet comes into play, it shows how it's done to max overlapping credit.

I recommend finishing the two ASNSM right away - your hubby can finish those required courses from SL/Study.com all in one month if he is taking his time off from work and using that downtime correctly, apply for graduation before Oct 1 and complete everything by the end of October, so he can transfer them into the two ASNSM for December graduation.  If he has the time, he can do the CS/CIS certs as well, it's not a priority, it can be completed before the Bachelors - but I recommend more time should be spent on finishing the Bachelors.

Final thoughts:  I think having ASNSM Bio and Math, along with the CIS/CS certificates would be more marketable for prospective jobs, it should look better on a resume than having an Associates Comp Sci, a redundant CIS/CS certificates and a BS Tech Studies with mainly CS/CIS courses showing on the transcript.  Furthermore, there are secondary specializations he'll be qualified for, instead of just CS/CIS related positions.

That's exactly what he is going to try to do. He's not taking off of work, already put in 72 hours this week, but that's normal. However he is not currently taking anymore classes at Baker until he get's his evaluation back from TESU on the BSTC/BACS. And that is "his short break" at the moment. lol 

As for marketability, I wholeheartedly agree that the ASNSM Bio/Math would be the way to go. And I am reworking "new plans" for him based on the suggestions here towards those two degrees. I'll post them when I've finished for any suggestions or feedback. If he has to make a choice between one of the three because graduating from TESU by December is impractical, then he plans to stick with the Pierpont BOG AAS as a "for now" degree. In that instance, he would be limited to only one ASNSM from TESU down the road. The ASNSM Biology would possibly be the most useful to him in that case, over the ASNSM Math. He's already completed the ASNSM CS but that would just be redundant in less than a yea anyways lol

Hopefully my best guesses as to where his courses may fall for either of these two are somewhat close. As I mentioned in the other thread the quarter hours were making it even more challenging for me to figure out what TESU may do with them. They fall both within the AOS for any of the ASNSMs as well as the required general ed courses. Even if TESU does allow him to use one residency waiver for two separate graduations, he still needs to know what is missing and what to take long before they are done with his evaluation since he would need to apply to graduate by Oct 1. 

BJ, am I understanding you correctly that he would have until the end of October to complete and submit any of the missing courses? The TESU graduation deadline webpage https://www.tesu.edu/current-students/gr...nformation states all applications, fees, and official transcripts would need to be submitted by Oct. 1. So we were under the impression he only would have until about mid September to finish any missing courses in order to get official transcripts delivered in time. I don't even know if they will have his initial evaluation completed by mid September, so this was another concern as to the feasibility of completing these two degrees in time for December graduation.

We also just have to wait to hear back from TESU regarding whether paying one residency waiver will in fact cover two graduations in the same year, as davewill suggested may be possible. Fingers crossed!

And once again, thank you to all. Your suggestions and advice have been super helpful!

[davewill]

Actually, you can get away with adding courses well into late November, if need be, and still graduate in December.

[shadowgem]

Actually, you can get away with adding courses well into late November, if need be, and still graduate in December.

Oh wow, ty! That really makes it seem much more possible in terms of time allotment.

One more quick question regarding timing, if I may. I noticed that the ASNSMs require the cornerstone course. The graduation deadlines page on TESU's website also indicates that you must be enrolled in any TESU course beginning NLT June, July, or Aug. Since the study.com affiliation appears to no longer waive the cornerstone requirement and he would not be able to register for this course before the Oct term according to the course registration page...will that interfere with any ability to graduate by December?

[MNomadic]

Actually, you can get away with adding courses well into late November, if need be, and still graduate in December.

Oh wow, ty! That really makes it seem much more possible in terms of time allotment.

One more quick question regarding timing, if I may. I noticed that the ASNSMs require the cornerstone course. The graduation deadlines page on TESU's website also indicates that you must be enrolled in any TESU course beginning NLT June, July, or Aug. Since the study.com affiliation appears to no longer waive the cornerstone requirement and he would not be able to register for this course before the Oct term according to the course registration page...will that interfere with any ability to graduate by December?

In the past, people were able to have the cornerstone waived if they transferred in 104 or 106 credits on their initial evaluation. Not sure if this is still the case. You're definitely transferring in enough so I would contact them to ask if they can waive it.

[davewill]

The cornerstone course, being only one credit, is only 4 weeks long, so it should be no problem timingwise, even if you can't get it waived.