Don't misrepresent where you went to school.

[sanantone]

I know this happens at some companies, but prestige is usually based on the reputation of the program rather than the entire school. For example, no one would call UTD or SHSU prestigious overall, but they're prestigious when it comes to criminology and criminal justice. Penn State is more prestigious than UPenn when it comes to criminology. Only looking at overall rankings simplifies things to the point of being inaccurate.

Thats how it works at most companies. I'm sure there are a few specialty fields where certain schools are known to have good programs, but that simply isn't most cases. Harvard is the most prestigious school in the entire world. It's only natural that some of that glow will wear off on its alumni, extension or not. At the end of the day, most of the professors are from Harvard, and the ones who aren't are from BU, Tufts, or universities of a similar tier. I'm honestly not sure how to compare it to a traditional program, because thats not what it is. If a student has the opportunity to go to the best program in their field, they should do it. For the rest of us, it seems like HES is a great value.

---

If that's how it worked at most companies, Big 3 graduates would have a tough time finding employment. There are many employers who value experience over where you went to school. 

Even if most companies created piles, it ultimately means nothing. Probably 99% of college graduates didn't attend a top 50 school. If employers only hired from top 50 schools, they wouldn't have enough workers.

[cookderosa]

Harvard's ranking is not based on Harvard Extension. If they treated Harvard Extension like the other schools, their ranking would drop because it's almost open entry, and the graduation and retention rates are abysmal. This is why Harvard keeps HES segregated.>>


HES is not segregated. Harvard University houses many colleges, as is typical for large research universities, and HES is inside of the Harvard Continuing Education College. It's no more segregated than any of their programs. EVERY HU degree comes from one of their colleges inside the university.

[brodie]

I know this happens at some companies, but prestige is usually based on the reputation of the program rather than the entire school. For example, no one would call UTD or SHSU prestigious overall, but they're prestigious when it comes to criminology and criminal justice. Penn State is more prestigious than UPenn when it comes to criminology. Only looking at overall rankings simplifies things to the point of being inaccurate.

Thats how it works at most companies. I'm sure there are a few specialty fields where certain schools are known to have good programs, but that simply isn't most cases. Harvard is the most prestigious school in the entire world. It's only natural that some of that glow will wear off on its alumni, extension or not. At the end of the day, most of the professors are from Harvard, and the ones who aren't are from BU, Tufts, or universities of a similar tier. I'm honestly not sure how to compare it to a traditional program, because thats not what it is. If a student has the opportunity to go to the best program in their field, they should do it. For the rest of us, it seems like HES is a great value.

---

If that's how it worked at most companies, Big 3 graduates would have a tough time finding employment. There are many employers who value experience over where you went to school. 

Even if most companies created piles, it ultimately means nothing. Probably 99% of college graduates didn't attend a top 50 school. If employers only hired from top 50 schools, they wouldn't have enough workers.

This really, really, really depends on the person and what they want from their degree. I agree that the vast majority of jobs only see a degree as a box you check. Prestige isn't really the goal if you want to get a promotion from middle management to upper management or work in a corporate HR department or increase your earnings or whatever. It's just a piece of paper. 

That being said, oftentimes degree prestige and connections are the difference between a job and the job you want. I know two people who wanted to be writers, for example... one went to the University of Michigan where made numerous connections who helped her get published and get into an MFA program that was fully funded where she met other writers who eventually helped her sell a novel for publication, meanwhile the prestigious funded MFA helped her land a day job teaching at a liberal arts college. The other went to Eastern Michigan University and didn't have any of that... she submitted to some litmags and didn't get any publications, decided to pay for an MFA which didn't help her because nobody in publishing respects programs that don't fund their students, she didn't make any literary connections and eventually stopped writing and took a respectable but boring job as a content writer for a birth injury law firm's website. The moral here is that some fields are really strongly based on who you know and some degree of snobbery... these may be the 1% of careers, but if your goal is to be in one of them you need to be cognizant of that fact. There are exceptions to every rule, but an exception never disproves the rule.

[dfrecore]

This really, really, really depends on the person and what they want from their degree. I agree that the vast majority of jobs only see a degree as a box you check. Prestige isn't really the goal if you want to get a promotion from middle management to upper management or work in a corporate HR department or increase your earnings or whatever. It's just a piece of paper. 

That being said, oftentimes degree prestige and connections are the difference between a job and the job you want. I know two people who wanted to be writers, for example... one went to the University of Michigan where made numerous connections who helped her get published and get into an MFA program that was fully funded where she met other writers who eventually helped her sell a novel for publication, meanwhile the prestigious funded MFA helped her land a day job teaching at a liberal arts college. The other went to Eastern Michigan University and didn't have any of that... she submitted to some litmags and didn't get any publications, decided to pay for an MFA which didn't help her because nobody in publishing respects programs that don't fund their students, she didn't make any literary connections and eventually stopped writing and took a respectable but boring job as a content writer for a birth injury law firm's website. The moral here is that some fields are really strongly based on who you know and some degree of snobbery... these may be the 1% of careers, but if your goal is to be in one of them you need to be cognizant of that fact. There are exceptions to every rule, but an exception never disproves the rule.

And this is why we say that 99% of the jobs don't require this.  If you're in the 1%, then yes, you need to be aware.  But I think we've said this MANY times before.

[sanantone]

Harvard's ranking is not based on Harvard Extension. If they treated Harvard Extension like the other schools, their ranking would drop because it's almost open entry, and the graduation and retention rates are abysmal. This is why Harvard keeps HES segregated.>>


HES is not segregated.  Harvard University houses many colleges, as is typical for large research universities, and HES is inside of the Harvard Continuing Education College.  It's no more segregated than any of their programs. EVERY HU degree comes from one of their colleges inside the university.

I mean segregated in that they aren't allowed to get degrees from the corresponding departments like one would at Penn State World Campus and hundreds of other schools. Instead, they get degrees in Extension Studies with a concentration so that they can be branded as different.

[cookderosa]

Harvard's ranking is not based on Harvard Extension. If they treated Harvard Extension like the other schools, their ranking would drop because it's almost open entry, and the graduation and retention rates are abysmal. This is why Harvard keeps HES segregated.>>


HES is not segregated.  Harvard University houses many colleges, as is typical for large research universities, and HES is inside of the Harvard Continuing Education College.  It's no more segregated than any of their programs. EVERY HU degree comes from one of their colleges inside the university.

I mean segregated in that they aren't allowed to get degrees from the corresponding departments like one would at Penn State World Campus and hundreds of other schools. Instead, they get degrees in Extension Studies with a concentration so that they can be branded as different.

? "So that" Really? It's not "so that they can be branded as different" it's because of the college at the university they graduated from.

[sanantone]

Harvard's ranking is not based on Harvard Extension. If they treated Harvard Extension like the other schools, their ranking would drop because it's almost open entry, and the graduation and retention rates are abysmal. This is why Harvard keeps HES segregated.>>


HES is not segregated.  Harvard University houses many colleges, as is typical for large research universities, and HES is inside of the Harvard Continuing Education College.  It's no more segregated than any of their programs. EVERY HU degree comes from one of their colleges inside the university.

I mean segregated in that they aren't allowed to get degrees from the corresponding departments like one would at Penn State World Campus and hundreds of other schools. Instead, they get degrees in Extension Studies with a concentration so that they can be branded as different.

?  "So that"  Really?  It's not "so that they can be branded as different" it's because of the college at the university they graduated from.

Which is the definition of segregation. If they are able to take courses offered by Harvard instructors, then why should they be awarded different degrees? If a person completes a major's worth of anthropology courses, then why shouldn't he or she be awarded an anthropology degree? There's really no good reason to award Extension Studies degrees other than ensuring that others know that these students are different.

[posabsolute]

I don't think the extension school will lose its stigma any time soon.

Harvard reputation is basically 2 folds.

1. One of the most selective school, study along with other successful (or rich) peers. (debatable, but this is part of the reputation)
2. Rigorous curriculum from some of the best professors in the world

Studying at the Extensions school you get basically half the second point. In software engineering, a lot of courses aren't from Harvard faculty, plus it's a liberal degree, there is no way to know which courses you took and as such no way to know how much of the curriculum you took with faculty.

What does that mean? Well, you will never be viewed in the same light as a "proper" Harvard alumni, there was also in the past misrepresentation by some extension students (which does not help) and so it's in Harvard best interest to keep you different, which clash directly with the Extensions school mission.

I think this is still an amazing opportunity for the money, but Harvard would need to do a big effort (that they don't want to do) to change the current state of things. I'm willing to bet that they will keep students getting master of liberal arts in extension studies for a llooonng time.

[eriehiker]

Here's one thing that I see...

I've been taking a lot of cheap economics classes that are subsidized by conservative schools/foundations. I appreciate the help and obviously some of the idea is to nurture conservative academic structures. Some of the donors show up at the in person conferences. And I live right next to Hillsdale College which is kind of like training camp for conservatives. The conservative movement doesn't happen without this alternative structure.

Places like Harvard have not done a good job of expanding their base beyond cities and college towns. Here in SE MI there is basically a circle of influence around Ann Arbor and then everyone else kind of rolls their eyes at the crazy liberals. My point: It is in the best interests of Harvard and MIT and Michigan to create real distance learning pathways for non-campus students because the conservatives have been stealing their lunch.

[sanantone]

Here's one thing that I see...

I've been taking a lot of cheap economics classes that are subsidized by conservative schools/foundations.  I appreciate the help and obviously some of the idea is to nurture conservative academic structures.  Some of the donors show up at the in person conferences.  And I live right next to Hillsdale College which is kind of like training camp for conservatives.  The conservative movement doesn't happen without this alternative structure.

Places like Harvard have not done a good job of expanding their base beyond cities and college towns.  Here in SE MI there is basically a circle of influence around Ann Arbor and then everyone else kind of rolls their eyes at the crazy liberals.  My point: It is in the best interests of Harvard and MIT and Michigan to create real distance learning pathways for non-campus students because the conservatives have been stealing their lunch.

But, Hillsdale doesn't offer online programs, right? Hillsdale is also not an elite school. There are thousands of non-elite schools across the political spectrum that offer online programs. Among the cheapest are in-state, public schools.

There are really only a few holdouts among the elite schools. Most of them now offer at least one online program. Columbia is the most progressive of the Ivy League schools. They offer about a dozen or more online programs, and their degrees are exactly the same as those earned on campus. Yale started what is only the third distance learning physician assistant program (the first one is gone because the school closed). I think UPenn has a blended doctoral program. 

There are many non-traditional students who have the grades and test scores to get into competitive programs. They just need the online offerings. Requirements don't have to be watered down. There are more than enough open entry schools to serve less competitive students.