recommended premed major ADVICE WANTED

[bluebooger]

Does anyone know of any colleges that have reputably good undergraduate programs for pre-med students to get practice for med school in???

define "practice"

do you mean hands on patient care ?

if that's what you want then take an EMT course near you
or a CNA (Certified Nurse Assistant)

both are about $1000

[sanantone]

I have passed these CLEP tests with these scores: US history I 64, US History II 59, College Algebra 59, Humanities 50+, Sociology 60, College Composition50+, Developmental Psychology 54, and today Biology 57. My current high school GPA is 3.7+(somewhere between 3.7 -4.0). I will be graduating in May.
Also, I have let up on my extracurricular activities specifically flute playing (maybe a bad idea?, since I was good, good at the flute).
Please keep the advice coming; it is great and helpful (and interesting)!!!
Oh yes, will someone please give me a link to see just what the MCAT scores look like per students' chosen major????

Although old, the link in my post on the first page has MCAT scores by category of major. However, scores on a graduate admissions test don't really tell you how well a major prepares one for the test. There is self-selection bias. For example, criminal justice/criminology majors have the lowest LSAT scores. That doesn't automatically mean that CJ programs are poor at developing the analytical skills one needs for the LSAT. It could be that people with lower verbal skills just choose to major in CJ. To be honest, after teaching CJ students at a traditional university, they didn't come across as being too bright. Community colleges aren't known for having a lot of geniuses, but my CJ classmates didn't come across as being as intelligent as my psychology and business classmates.

I found some more recent data. Biology majors' PS and VR scores are pretty bad.
https://medschoolodyssey.wordpress.com/2...ate-major/

[clep3705]

Knowing Physicians who will write letters of recommendation is important (though not critical).

I've known people who did this and they are doctors now. But they also had off the chart MCAT scores and GPAs. Not only that, they were quite neurotic about getting in. They sincerely believed that the physician letters helped them get in. Just because they believed that doesn't make it true. Neurotic people do all kinds of silly things. I submit that those letters from physicians had absolutely nothing to do with these exceptionally smart people getting in. The schools they applied to specifically asked for letters from faculty members.

Here's a quote from https://www.bcm.edu/education/schools/me...ns-process

"If there is no health professions advisor, advisory committee, or office of advising premedical students at your school, evaluations from three individuals who are qualified to evaluate you personally and academically will be considered. A minimum of 3 letters are required, 4 letters max."

How is a random physician whom an applicant knows going to be able to academically evaluate him or her?

Here's what Harvard's dental school says Who should write my letters of recommendation? How many letters do I need? | Harvard School of Dental Medicine

"Letters of recommendation should be written by professors who know you in an academic setting ... Professional letters of recommendation—for example, letters from a boss or a dentist you’ve shadowed—may be submitted as a fourth letter of recommendation. "

From Johns Hopkins Medical School Frequently Asked Questions| Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine M.D. Admissions

"Two (2) letters of recommendation from science faculty. One (1) letter from non-science faculty. ... Furthermore, additional letters do not give you an advantage over the required three letters. Nor can we guarantee that we will evaluate more than the required number of letters."

I think it is a big myth that successful medical applicants need a letter of recommendation from a physician. If a medical school doesn't ask for such letters, is it wise to provide them? What happened to following instructions? Now if the instructions say to get a letter from a physician, follow the instructions.

[jgbenjamin]

No, by practice, I mean that the program prepares a student outstandingly FOR medical school as well as the MCAT.
Colleges famous for their premed courses--advice wanted still!

[rebel100]

Harvard, even the Extension School has a well respected pre med program, any Ivey.... Your flagship state u is probably great to.

[TrailRunr]

I have passed these CLEP tests with these scores: US history I 64, US History II 59, College Algebra 59, Humanities 50+, Sociology 60, College Composition50+, Developmental Psychology 54, and today Biology 57. My current high school GPA is 3.7+(somewhere between 3.7 -4.0). I will be graduating in May.
Also, I have let up on my extracurricular activities specifically flute playing (maybe a bad idea?, since I was good, good at the flute).
Please keep the advice coming; it is great and helpful (and interesting)!!!
Oh yes, will someone please give me a link to see just what the MCAT scores look like per students' chosen major????

Nothing here is exceptional and hints that you won't make it unless you work a lot harder. I would have preferred to see science and math CLEP scores in the upper 60s or 70s rather than the 50s. Barely passing the CLEP in any subject isn't a great sign either. You want to be on the very right hand side of the curve. Your scores probably approximate someone getting AP Biology/Chem/Math/Physics score of 2 or 3 (3 is still passing) instead of 5. I saw the 3.7 GPA, but most unsuccessful pre-meds still thought high school was easy. The actual AP or CLEP score doesn't count for anything in the med school process. Nevertheless, I'd bet against you getting into pre-med.

I'm not talking you out of it, but you need to work way harder on your academics. Fortunately, you have no college grades. I like the idea of working on a different primary goal while doing the pre-med on the side. If it doesn't work out, you still have primary plan rather than the backup plan.

[TrailRunr]

No, by practice, I mean that the program prepares a student outstandingly FOR medical school as well as the MCAT.
Colleges famous for their premed courses--advice wanted still!

I think this is a horrible idea. You will end up in a school where the biology classes are filled with pre-meds and other STEM majors. The pre-meds are called "gunners" because they are trying real hard to get an A-/A/A+. These courses are typically graded on the curve and are called "weeder courses." If you are not in the top 30% of this specialized population, you will end up with a B or lower which will kill your chances of med school. The 2 + 2 plan with community college and university will make it easier to earn A grades with the very occasional B grade.

This type of school is good for gunners who want to get into the top tier medical schools rather than mere mortals who would be ecstatic to enter any medical school.

[dfrecore]

jgbenjamin, please don't let anyone tell you that you can't go to med school if you really want to do that!!! Take everything you read on here with a grain of salt, and don't listen to everyone. You don't have to have perfect scores, or perfect grades, or anything else to get into med school. You don't have to have the perfect path, or the same timing others do either.

I have a friend who did not even decide to go to med school until she was in her early 30's. She couldn't afford medical school here, so she went to Mexico instead (she was already fluent in Spanish and so was her husband), graduated, and came back to the US to work as a doc for 20 years. Since she had no debt, she could do the work she really wanted, and chose to work at a clinic to help the poor and underserved in our community. She just retired at 65.

My husband's cousin didn't decide to go to med school until he was 27. He originally went to college as a Computer Science major through ROTC, was an officer in the marines for 4 years, and decided to become a doctor after he got out. He did his pre-reqs at the local university, then applied and got into the same university for medical school (U of Mississippi or Alabama, I can't remember - certainly nothing renown for the GREAT med school). Everyone told him he had to go to spend a fortune to go to the BEST med school (in their opinion, the only way to get a GREAT residency), or basically he was just throwing his life away. But, he chose to go to a school he could afford, graduated at the top of his class, and went to do his residency. He was WAY older than almost everyone else in his class, and married with 2 kids. He was just the Chief Resident of Psychiatry of Duke University this past year.

Neither of these people went straight out of high school, and neither knew that they even wanted to be doctors until they were older. They did not have their plan all mapped out perfectly from birth, but they found a way to do it and be successful anyway.

Anyway, just wanted to share, in light of some of the negative comments here. I know that we all have our opinions on this forum, but none of us has the right to tell someone that they WON'T be successful or CAN'T achieve their dreams! Good luck in your journey.

[rebel100]

They sincerely believed that the physician letters helped them get in. Just because they believed that doesn't make it true. Neurotic people do all kinds of silly things. I submit that those letters from physicians had absolutely nothing to do with these exceptionally smart people getting in.

I wouldn't support collecting random letters from physicians either, except that it can be helpful and is ACTUALLY REQUIRED in some instances of med school applications. The OP should be finding meaningful employment or volunteer activities that supports med school admissions. This absolutely includes trying to meet and talk with actual physicians. These physicians should be viewed as mentors and, if needed, should be groomed to provide the applicant with letters and testimony supporting the applicant if required. I agree that every school won't require them. Physicians can also be called upon to testify (via letter) as an ancillary or addition to the three typically required academic letters.

College of Osteopathic Medicine degree at NSU
5. Letters of recommendation from: A physician (M.D. or D.O.)

The Applications | UW Medicine
3. Letters of recommendation
Submit a premedical committee evaluation and up to 3 additional letters
OR
Submit a minimum of three and up to six letters from writers who can speak to one or more of the following: your academic ability, commitment to service, leadership potential, clinical or research experiences, interpersonal skills, ability to function on a team, and/or potential as a physician. The collection of letters should provide a balanced and well-rounded view of your candidacy for medicine. Letters of recommendation from current employers may be advantageous.

Shadowing a DO and Learning About the Practice of Osteopathic Medicine
Colleges of osteopathic medicine encourage applicants to learn more about the profession by identifying an osteopathic physician to shadow.
Many of the colleges require applicants to get to know a DO and request a letter of recommendation as part of the application process. Applicants should meet and spend time shadowing the physician. This provides the applicant with exposure to the osteopathic profession and enhances awareness of osteopathic medical philosophy. Working with a physician will prepare the applicant for the application interview. Completing this crucial step also demonstrates the applicant’s commitment to the osteopathic profession.

Students should contact a DO before applying for admission, beginning as early as possible while in undergraduate education

Colleges of osteopathic medicine encourage applicants to learn more about the profession by identifying an osteopathic physician to shadow.
Many of the colleges require applicants to get to know a DO and request a letter of recommendation as part of the application process. Applicants should meet and spend time shadowing the physician. This provides the applicant with exposure to the osteopathic profession and enhances awareness of osteopathic medical philosophy. Working with a physician will prepare the applicant for the application interview. Completing this crucial step also demonstrates the applicant’s commitment to the osteopathic profession.

Students should contact a DO before applying for admission, beginning as early as possible while in undergraduate education


https://medicine.llu.edu/admissions/lett...mmendation
If the applicant's school does not provide a committee recommendation or packet, a minimum of three individual recommendations from individuals who know the applicant well are required. At least one of those recommendations must be from a science professor who has taught the applicant. It is suggested that the other references come from:

Physician
Employer
Pastor (or other clergy)
Other persons who know the applicant


I can sit her and find schools requiring, preferring, or at least accepting a physicians referral letter all day...fail to find a Doc to provide this for you at your own peril.

[rebel100]

I love your encouraging approach and agree with your can do sentiment, I really do. I also agree that the lesser known med schools still produce...wait for it...DOCTORS! Still, getting into any medical school is a challenge. The OP should do everything possible to stack the deck in their favor.

jgbenjamin, please don't let anyone tell you that you can't go to med school if you really want to do that!!! Take everything you read on here with a grain of salt, and don't listen to everyone. You don't have to have perfect scores, or perfect grades, or anything else to get into med school. You don't have to have the perfect path, or the same timing others do either.

I have a friend who did not even decide to go to med school until she was in her early 30's. She couldn't afford medical school here, so she went to Mexico instead (she was already fluent in Spanish and so was her husband), graduated, and came back to the US to work as a doc for 20 years. Since she had no debt, she could do the work she really wanted, and chose to work at a clinic to help the poor and underserved in our community. She just retired at 65.

No offense, and I have no doubt we could find current stories that are like this, but relying on anecdotal evidence of how someone did this 30 years ago is less than optimal advice. It's a great story, and relevant in its way, but 30 years ago there wasn't the incredibly competitive environment we see today. Heck, DO was almost unheard of back then, PA and ARNP wasn't even a thing...and still your friend had to opt for a foreign school to get their MD.

My husband's cousin didn't decide to go to med school until he was 27. He originally went to college as a Computer Science major through ROTC, was an officer in the marines for 4 years, and decided to become a doctor after he got out. He did his pre-reqs at the local university, then applied and got into the same university for medical school (U of Mississippi or Alabama, I can't remember - certainly nothing renown for the GREAT med school). Everyone told him he had to go to spend a fortune to go to the BEST med school (in their opinion, the only way to get a GREAT residency), or basically he was just throwing his life away. But, he chose to go to a school he could afford, graduated at the top of his class, and went to do his residency. He was WAY older than almost everyone else in his class, and married with 2 kids. He was just the Chief Resident of Psychiatry of Duke University this past year.

Awesome, and look at how the admissions committee first saw him...as an accomplished Marine Officer with a relevant academic background and great scores on his MCAT and Core prereqs. No one is telling the OP to shoot for the "best" med school...they are telling him to shoot for the best undergrad he can get and to make the most of it including a decent fall back plan.

Neither of these people went straight out of high school, and neither knew that they even wanted to be doctors until they were older. They did not have their plan all mapped out perfectly from birth, but they found a way to do it and be successful anyway.

True, great advice, I agree and most of the recently admitted folks I know did exactly this.

Anyway, just wanted to share, in light of some of the negative comments here. I know that we all have our opinions on this forum, but none of us has the right to tell someone that they WON'T be successful or CAN'T achieve their dreams! Good luck in your journey.

Yep,