Advice for college age and high school home schooler?

[Jonathan Whatley]

Thank you Jonathan for your explanation and advice! I was under the impression that if he obtained the biology degree, that was putting him on the track to pursue neurology vs. neuroscience. He actually enjoys biology more than he does psychology. This is still something he would need to consider with regards to testing out, testing some or going back to CC. The more I learn tonight, the more I think he should attend the CC and test some. Perhaps electives?

Yes, and supporting stuff in other departments if those would stand a good chance of acceptance at his target school(s). Candidate subjects would include math up to and including calculus, statistics, and chemistry.

[collegehomeschoolmom]

OP, Are you dealing with PGCC?

Is there a link to a page that tells you the student must be enrolled in a public school for concurrent enrollment (what it's called in MD) to be paid? I'm not seeing that at the PGCC website.

Yes I am referring to PGCC. Actually, I had it incorrect, my mistake! The Concurrent Enrollment Program is the one that would work for us. If my son was 16. He is not yet. This route is also not free. The Dual Enrollment Program is paid for by the county, but one needs to be enrolled in a public school first. The student also needs to be 16.

[cathgrl]

OK, I see now. It's in the FAQs.

[collegehomeschoolmom]

Yes, and supporting stuff in other departments if those would stand a good chance of acceptance at his target school(s). Candidate subjects would include math up to and including calculus, statistics, and chemistry.

Definitely something to consider! We will do some more research so he will not lose credits, retake courses, etc. For example, I have seen this with some of the programs at UMD, particularly for General Education studies. Although they'll accept a CC degree transfer in most fields of study, if one has certain CLEP credits, some of those courses will have to get taken over.

[cookderosa]

Ok, so thanks for answering my questions.

Son #1: In my opinion, he should continue at the community college next semester stretching his psychology wings so to speak. I think he'd do well to enroll in at least Introductory Psychology (101) and if eligible, the Abnormal Psychology and Human Growth and Development/Developmental Psychology. Yes, there are test-out options for those, however, if he's considering this as a CAREER, he will enjoy those classes and have an opportunity to do many important things. He's going to spend time learning from someone with at least a master's degree in psychology, he'll be doing extensive reading on the subject, and most importantly he'll be doing writing in APA style on the topic. These will all become important as he makes his final decision on whether or not he enjoys the academic aspect of this field. Furthermore, he'll earn grades in those subjects which will likely also be prerequisites for grad school. The highest usefulness for CLEP in his situation will be in NON-MAJOR courses, like literature, computers, and history. Your CC's CLEP policy and list of accepted exams are the starting point. You'll want to check that the exams he's considering match his degree plan.
Part 2 of my suggestion is that he begin discussing the field of neuroscience with his psychology professors. Get THEIR feedback and input on appropriate training, career prospects, and things to consider. They'll have a good idea of potential pros and cons for him to consider. I'd ask for suggestions of undergrad and grad schools, and spend a little time looking into these programs. Though he may or may not end up at those specific schools, having a good working idea of undergrad major (bio or psych?) as well as prerequisites into grad school (letters of rec? Lab science?), cost, and location are all important. If any of these programs are in your state, and you get to the point where you really think he is going to go into that field, I strongly suggest he complete an "articulation agreement" at the community college that will LOCK him into a guaranteed transfer into the bachelor's degree program. This allows you to use maximum CLEP credit, access all of the undergrad courses for a fraction of the cost, be in a guaranteed degree transfer program, and map out a game plan BEFORE he starts spending significant time and money.
Part 3 if I may, just on a personal note, I'd suggest he pepper his degree with as much science as he can. The bio course he took was for non-majors (which probably counts) but doing General Bio w/lab 1 and 2 in addition to General Chemistry w/lab 1 & 2 will give him SUCH a strong and solid understanding of neuroscience that he really should make himself take them. (as Jonathan hinted towards, sometimes psychology and biology are at odds, because scientists see psychology as a soft science (can't be measured) and psychologists see scientists as lacking the social science elements that help interpret science- he's have foundations in both which would help him tremendously).
Part 4 - Harvard offers a neuroscience class (psychology department) that is available via distance learning. No application required, just sign up and pay. It would transfer into his degree. I've had my eye on it for a few years Neuroscience of Learning and Behavior Change

[cookderosa]

Son #2

So, your dual enrollment situation is kinda typical. It's not free (that I can find) but it is "open" to youth still in high school, which many CC's don't do, that there's that. No, you wouldn't enroll him in the public school- you'd be the principal/school authority. Since you downloaded my book you know I love dual enrollment for a number of reasons, but I also love simply homeschooling while including options for credit. My opinion for an adult is different than that for a child, so take this with a grain of salt, but I don't see testing out and accelerating through a degree as a teen as something I get behind in all circumstances. You have to weigh the options carefully.
For instance, if your child wants to focus on music performance, testing out means he's missing out on the aspects of performance that he might get being part of a college band, orchestra, or ensemble. If he's more of a hard rock band type, then getting through the degree as quickly and cheaply as possible so that he can get on the road makes a lot of sense. In another situation, he may want to enlist in the armed forces and play music. Coming in with a degree provides a TON of benefits, so quickly testing out while in high school is a great idea.... on the other hand, if paying for CLEP exams is a financial burden, or he isn't interested in ever becoming an officer, then there is no hurry because enlisted personnel have free CLEP/DSST exams while they are active duty and get educational benefits after their service. Finally, if he has his sights on starting a business (or has already started) then just "checking the box" and earning his degree quickly so he can get out and start working/scaling/networking might be perfect. If it's just an idea and he needs a little help, then using the benefits that come from networking and all of the business connections he'll make in school (even at the CC) will be soooo helpful in developing his business acumen and confidence.

Testing out, in my opinion, best servs mid-career adults who have already figured out what's holding them back in their career (usually, just lack of degree) while a teen still doesn't usually have the "other" skills like writing, communicating, interacting, work experience, and foresight to know if its the best option. Again, that's not everyone, and that's just my opinion. Dozens here would disagree.

So, if this were my son, I'd do school as usual. I'd build in 1-2 exam options per semester (see Building Good Curriculum chapter 5) that are there as options if the class does really well, but the emphasis is still on providing an excellent high school education. *my own children sometimes go through my carefully constructed curriculum and then I don't have them test if I don't think they're up to it; Happened twice last year! That's okay, remember, even 1 college credit earned puts him AHEAD. When it's not about the credit, you can keep it real, and let his interests guide some of the college planning -which may change a time or two, which is normal and healthy.

Hope that helps!

[collegehomeschoolmom]

Ok, so thanks for answering my questions.

Son #1: In my opinion, he should continue at the community college next semester stretching his psychology wings so to speak. I think he'd do well to enroll in at least Introductory Psychology (101) and if eligible, the Abnormal Psychology and Human Growth and Development/Developmental Psychology. Yes, there are test-out options for those, however, if he's considering this as a CAREER, he will enjoy those classes and have an opportunity to do many important things. He's going to spend time learning from someone with at least a master's degree in psychology, he'll be doing extensive reading on the subject, and most importantly he'll be doing writing in APA style on the topic. These will all become important as he makes his final decision on whether or not he enjoys the academic aspect of this field. Furthermore, he'll earn grades in those subjects which will likely also be prerequisites for grad school. The highest usefulness for CLEP in his situation will be in NON-MAJOR courses, like literature, computers, and history. Your CC's CLEP policy and list of accepted exams are the starting point. You'll want to check that the exams he's considering match his degree plan.
Part 2 of my suggestion is that he begin discussing the field of neuroscience with his psychology professors. Get THEIR feedback and input on appropriate training, career prospects, and things to consider. They'll have a good idea of potential pros and cons for him to consider. I'd ask for suggestions of undergrad and grad schools, and spend a little time looking into these programs. Though he may or may not end up at those specific schools, having a good working idea of undergrad major (bio or psych?) as well as prerequisites into grad school (letters of rec? Lab science?), cost, and location are all important. If any of these programs are in your state, and you get to the point where you really think he is going to go into that field, I strongly suggest he complete an "articulation agreement" at the community college that will LOCK him into a guaranteed transfer into the bachelor's degree program. This allows you to use maximum CLEP credit, access all of the undergrad courses for a fraction of the cost, be in a guaranteed degree transfer program, and map out a game plan BEFORE he starts spending significant time and money.
Part 3 if I may, just on a personal note, I'd suggest he pepper his degree with as much science as he can. The bio course he took was for non-majors (which probably counts) but doing General Bio w/lab 1 and 2 in addition to General Chemistry w/lab 1 & 2 will give him SUCH a strong and solid understanding of neuroscience that he really should make himself take them. (as Jonathan hinted towards, sometimes psychology and biology are at odds, because scientists see psychology as a soft science (can't be measured) and psychologists see scientists as lacking the social science elements that help interpret science- he's have foundations in both which would help him tremendously).
Part 4 - Harvard offers a neuroscience class (psychology department) that is available via distance learning. No application required, just sign up and pay. It would transfer into his degree. I've had my eye on it for a few years Neuroscience of Learning and Behavior Change

Thank you so much Jennifer, this helps SO much! His program/career of choice is one that needs careful planning. When he first attended the CC, the advisors told him that he should look into psychology as a major. Needless to say, I agreed thinking this was the best route since he does not want to practice medicine. However, as Jonathan suggested, neuroscience is focused on biology as well as psychology. The CC transfer options to a 4-year college for our state are there; it is the CLEP acceptance that are always not. As I mentioned in another post, UMD will not accept many CLEP in the Gen Ed track (this is the track the CC has). But, it will give him some credit. IMHO, the CC Gen Ed transfer is still a great deal, it is the school administration that I am frustrated with (i.e. financial aid). I'll work around that though!

Fortunately, he loves science and it is one of his greatest strengths, so taking several science courses shouldn't be a problem for him. I truly appreciate your feedback and suggestions. I will look into the HES Neuroscience course for him. This is a great start for him in his field of choice and I know he'll enjoy it! Most likely, we will call UMD to speak with the Neuroscience Department there. He'll also speak to his psychology professors next semester. I have heard good things about the professors in this department. Thanks again!

[collegehomeschoolmom]

Son #2

So, your dual enrollment situation is kinda typical. It's not free (that I can find) but it is "open" to youth still in high school, which many CC's don't do, that there's that. No, you wouldn't enroll him in the public school- you'd be the principal/school authority. Since you downloaded my book you know I love dual enrollment for a number of reasons, but I also love simply homeschooling while including options for credit. My opinion for an adult is different than that for a child, so take this with a grain of salt, but I don't see testing out and accelerating through a degree as a teen as something I get behind in all circumstances. You have to weigh the options carefully.
For instance, if your child wants to focus on music performance, testing out means he's missing out on the aspects of performance that he might get being part of a college band, orchestra, or ensemble. If he's more of a hard rock band type, then getting through the degree as quickly and cheaply as possible so that he can get on the road makes a lot of sense. In another situation, he may want to enlist in the armed forces and play music. Coming in with a degree provides a TON of benefits, so quickly testing out while in high school is a great idea.... on the other hand, if paying for CLEP exams is a financial burden, or he isn't interested in ever becoming an officer, then there is no hurry because enlisted personnel have free CLEP/DSST exams while they are active duty and get educational benefits after their service. Finally, if he has his sights on starting a business (or has already started) then just "checking the box" and earning his degree quickly so he can get out and start working/scaling/networking might be perfect. If it's just an idea and he needs a little help, then using the benefits that come from networking and all of the business connections he'll make in school (even at the CC) will be soooo helpful in developing his business acumen and confidence.

Testing out, in my opinion, best servs mid-career adults who have already figured out what's holding them back in their career (usually, just lack of degree) while a teen still doesn't usually have the "other" skills like writing, communicating, interacting, work experience, and foresight to know if its the best option. Again, that's not everyone, and that's just my opinion. Dozens here would disagree.

So, if this were my son, I'd do school as usual. I'd build in 1-2 exam options per semester (see Building Good Curriculum chapter 5) that are there as options if the class does really well, but the emphasis is still on providing an excellent high school education. *my own children sometimes go through my carefully constructed curriculum and then I don't have them test if I don't think they're up to it; Happened twice last year! That's okay, remember, even 1 college credit earned puts him AHEAD. When it's not about the credit, you can keep it real, and let his interests guide some of the college planning -which may change a time or two, which is normal and healthy.

Hope that helps!

Yes, you're right in everything you said. I might add that he is one of those teens that would like to start his own business in the music industry. I did utilize some Saylor courses for his curriculum, but he did not take any credit exams. He would be very happy if he took one exam and received credit for it. So would I! Like my other son, he could benefit from the overall college experience. I do want him to enjoy homeschool and not feel like he has to rush things. At least I know he has the option to earn college credits and decide what school he wants to attend. I will reference the Building Good Curriculum from your book. I am thinking that we can agree for him to CLEP at least one course. No pressure, just a trial.

Thanks again for your wealth of information and advice. I will keep everyone posted!

[cookderosa]

Thank you so much Jennifer, this helps SO much! You are quite welcome!

His program/career of choice is one that needs careful planning. When he first attended the CC, the advisors told him that he should look into psychology as a major. They are correct, it is a field of psychology, but this field is unusual in that his actual job will determine what he needs to study. For instance, what does he see himself "doing" with the knowledge he acquires? This is where connecting with his psychology professors will be the most helpful.My suggestion to include hard sciences is more to help him understand more than psychology of brain science. It's one big chemical and biological organ, so understanding THAT, even if it isn't required, is very important in my opinion. I'm trying really hard not to imply that psychology based brain science without studying biology and chemistry is make believe, but there are some tracks a person can accidently float down that are less based in research and can be more in the "metaphysical" or similar kind of field. He needs an end goal. I'm really sensitive to this because nutrition is that way, there are lots of non-science wellness "degrees" out there that are nothing more than....well....I'll stop there lol. You want his hard work to earn him respect in his field, not be a joke, that's all I'm saying.

Needless to say, I agreed thinking this was the best route since he does not want to practice medicine. However, as Jonathan suggested, neuroscience is focused on biology as well as psychology. The CC transfer options to a 4-year college for our state are there; it is the CLEP acceptance that are always not. As I mentioned in another post, UMD will not accept many CLEP in the Gen Ed track (this is the track the CC has). But, it will give him some credit. IMHO, the CC Gen Ed transfer is still a great deal, it is the school administration that I am frustrated with (i.e. financial aid). I'll work around that though! Okay, so this is where it takes a little time to understand exactly what they are saying. It's true that the 4 year schools don't accept CLEP, but your son won't be applying as a regular student if he completes an articulation. An articulation agreement LOCKS IN his CLEP into a guaranteed transfer. In other words, his CLEP credit isn't evaluated by the university since the CC already awarded it. This is a HUGE work-around. I can answer more questions on this if it's still confusing, this is a huge-big-deal distinction that can be hard to fully understand.

Fortunately, he loves science and it is one of his greatest strengths, so taking several science courses shouldn't be a problem for him. I truly appreciate your feedback and suggestions. I will look into the HES Neuroscience course for him. This is a great start for him in his field of choice and I know he'll enjoy it! Most likely, we will call UMD to speak with the Neuroscience Department there. He'll also speak to his psychology professors next semester. I have heard good things about the professors in this department. Thanks again!
[COLOR="#0000FF"]
You are welcome! Good luck, and keep updating if you don't mind. It's awesome to hear progress![/COLOR]

[collegehomeschoolmom]

Thank you we are actually going to contact advising and his professors at his current school as well as a few of the 4 year schools with his major. It did appear that the 4-year university would be the ones evaluating the CLEP. However, they have made it clear that not many are accepted. I will message you if I have any question. Again, thank you for helping with this!