Western Governor's (WGU) Course Question

[marianne202]

I'm considering attending WGU for another BS degree in order to be eligible for an additional certification. The problem is that I was told since it is a competency based program I can just do the exams to complete courses in areas that I have extensive work experience. Now in doing some additional research on WGU I discover that their courses have lots of "busy work" and long essay writing that doesn't necessarily teach the concepts and is required to complete the courses. I've also heard about inconsistencies and errors in the grading service that grades these papers making it very frustrating.

I'm hoping someone here has taken courses with them and can let me know if it is true that as long as you pass the exams you can get credit or do you need to complete to all this busy work too? I'm trying to complete this program in 6 months, as I have already completed a lot of the courses and am waiting for their official eval.

I just don't want to take the word of the "sales counselor" that I can just do the exams then find out otherwise after I pay my tuition fee. Since their fee structure doesn't encourage them to want to keep you in the program longer, I'm afraid to trust what I've been told after reading the student feedback. The program director won't return my emails so I'm kinda stuck. I have some other options, but I liked the WGU program best for cost and outcome.

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Merlin]

I'd love to see some WGU student feedback as well. I was originally planning to work on my BS through WGU, but I couldn't get a straight answer out of them about what/how CLEP/DSST/ECE/TECEP exams factored in, and which ones would be considered for competency completion or letter grades. Since I plan to sit quite a few tests over the next 6-12 months, I wanted to be sure that they actually contributed towards my goal of accelerating the completion of my degree.

I am a fan of the competency-based independent-learning style, so I am still considering them as an option for a MBA next year, but I'd love to get more direct feedback on the student experience before then.

[sanantone]

I'm, too, interested in the competency-based style they have. When reading reviews, I came across the same information as you. From the reviews, it doesn't sound like you can move along much faster if you're already competent in a subject. There is still a set number of assignments you have to turn in. Someone said not to expect to complete more than 18 credits per 6-month term because the mentors and graders take so long to move you along.

You will completely teach yourself. That's fine by me, but if you need help on an assignment, you have to depend on other students on the forums. From the reviews I've read, the mentors only have bachelor's degrees and sometimes you're stuck with a mentor who does not have a degree in your area. When your graded assignment comes back, there is little feedback and the mentor usually does not know what the grader wants.

You will not get any letter grades at WGU. Everything is pass/fail. Did you mean their fee structure does encourage them to keep you in the program longer? Since they don't charge by unit/credit, their fee structure could encourage them to keep you in the program longer. Every 6-month term they can keep you in school, that's another $3,000 for them.

[Merlin]

You will not get any letter grades at WGU. Everything is pass/fail.

Seriously? I didn't realize that! You'd think they'd have mentioned that when I was asking about exam credit and such. Is that for everything (including their own classes) or just for exam competencies?

If it is for everything, then that is just crazy... no grades = no GPA, which may be fine for a post-graduate degree, but if you want to move on to a non-WGU graduate program, from what I've learned, most major graduate schools want to see a 3.5+ GPA (over at least 30-60 graded credits) to receive serious consideration, unless you can blow them away with an amazing application essay and/or near perfect GRE/GMAT/LSAT/MSAT score, etc. even then they still may deny you.

The GPA issue is one of the reasons I'm planning to aim for as many letter grade exams as possible (plus classes where it makes sense) to try and keep a decent GPA and as many graded credits as I can. Unfortunately, the refreshed DSST's are making that a PITA for me since they are all P/F now.

[valsacar]

I'm going to start my Masters (ISA) with them in February and done a lot of research on it.

The reason you can't get a straight answer about tests (and other coursework) applying is because you need to go through their eval first. They will waive domains only if you have met all the requirements for it, so if you meet 95% of a domain they will NOT waive it.

Accelerated is definitely possible, watch some of the commencement speeches. They had one woman (mother of 3, with a part time job) that did her whole degree (BA) in 6 months. On another forum (tech/IT specific) there are a good number of WGU students, many reported doing their BS in 1.5-2 years or less. From what students on that forum said, once your mentor feels you're ready for the exam you take it, if you pass you're done.

Lack of a GPA is nothing new, a lot of schools do that. Brown University did away with GPA many years ago. I'm pretty sure that doesn't stop people from going to Brown, or going to higher level degrees at other places. Not comparing the education at the two schools, just pointing out that lack of GPA is nothing new.

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes when I start my MS with them, I'm actually doing some of the work now. For that degree they use 6 certifications as part of the program, so if you already have them those domains are cleared, working on CCNA right now.

[Merlin]

Lack of a GPA is nothing new, a lot of schools do that. Brown University did away with GPA many years ago. I'm pretty sure that doesn't stop people from going to Brown, or going to higher level degrees at other places. Not comparing the education at the two schools, just pointing out that lack of GPA is nothing new.

Interesting... but also odd since many of the MBA programs I've looked at have a GPA requirement of some kind, in addition to admission test scores. I wonder how the folks with no GPA work that out since I've read horror stories about folks with few or no graded credits on their transcripts having issues at some schools, and my counselor at COSC also warned against it.

I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes when I start my MS with them, I'm actually doing some of the work now. For that degree they use 6 certifications as part of the program, so if you already have them those domains are cleared, working on CCNA right now.

Do you know if that also applies for undergrad course work in identical disciplines? From what I've read on their web site, it didn't look like undergrad classes could clear graduate level domains, but I figure even if they don't clear them, you'll be able to get through the material faster if you're already well versed in the area.

Thanks for the feedback!

[valsacar]

Interesting... but also odd since many of the MBA programs I've looked at have a GPA requirement of some kind, in addition to admission test scores. I wonder how the folks with no GPA work that out since I've read horror stories about folks with few or no graded credits on their transcripts having issues at some schools, and my counselor at COSC also warned against it.

From what I've read, if you have no GPA due to the school not using GPA they just weight your GMAT more than normal. Of course, each school is different, but since WGU isn't the only school that does use GPA it shouldn't really be an automatic disqualifier.

Do you know if that also applies for undergrad course work in identical disciplines? From what I've read on their web site, it didn't look like undergrad classes could clear graduate level domains, but I figure even if they don't clear them, you'll be able to get through the material faster if you're already well versed in the area.

Thanks for the feedback!

I spoke with one of the mentors, and he pretty much said no undergrad work would clear a domain for graduate level study. He was very specific that the only things that could be cleared, for my program, were those domains that ended in a certification, and only by holding that certification before enrollment. He did also state that given my background, and doing a few certs before hand, he wouldn't be surprised to see me finish it in a year or less. I've worked in the industry for many years, mostly in the Military (and now contractor), and will be sitting the CISSP in December. Given that level of knowledge (their program is based around the CISSP, but it does not waive or clear any domains) I should be able to progress through a lot of the program with ease.

My wife is also planning on transferring to WGU for her undergrad study in Early Childhood Development, but that probably won't be for a while. For undergrad it looks like they are a little more flexible in what can clear a domain.

[IgnazSemmelweis]

Anyone interested in getting good info on WGU, I'd suggest you go here:

Western Governors University Questions and Answers / Threads related to WGU - TechExams.net IT Certification Forums

Student Experiences at Western Governors University (WGU) - TechExams.net IT Certification Forums

[valsacar]

That would be the forum I was referring to, couldn't remember the name but it was on my list at home.

This is really good, from Foxer (on that forum) answer questions about the MS program in Information Security and Assurance

"2) I basically followed the recommended order of classes, although I did do the CEH class right at the beginning. If you want advice on specific classes let me know, but in general, I think taking the classes in roughly the order the list is a good idea, just because they build on each other.

If you're familiar with the WGU bachelor degree's, the performance assessment are pretty similar those. The technical classes all just require the successful passing of the corresponding certification. Each certification also has a writting class that goes along with it where you have to write 3-4 papers on subjects covered in the certification.

For example, you take the Ethical Hacking class that ends with the completion of the CEH exam. The next class, Hacking Countermeasures and Techniques, has 3 tasks that you must complete for a given scenario. They are:
1. Create a diagram of how a DDoS attack happened.
Write an executive summary with recommended countermeasures to the DoS attack.
2. Create a presentation that analyzes how using industry best practices can protect the network from a DDoS attack.
Develop a best practices guide.
3. Assume that you have been selected as the security consultant to perform a comprehensive security review for an organization of your choosing. Create a presentation detailing the results of the review and prescribe countermeasures.
3) I don't have anything else to really compare WGU to, but I learned a lot, and overall I think it was a really good program. I'd say it met my expectations. Like may others I chose WGU because it was affordable, and provided me with not only a degree, but also certifications."

So, looks like there are some required writing as well as the certifications, which is fine by me.

He also said, about length:

"My first term officially started last october, but because I had finished my Bachelor degree at WGU I still had access to books24x7 and I started reading books for the MS program around mid-august.

I also worked on school all the time. I was able to work on school during downtime at work, which helped as well. In total though, I guess it took me about 10 months."

That's 10 months for a Masters program, pretty good.

[brajalle]

Piecing together info on WGU can take a bit. Like other universities that aren't as clear cut as the Big 3 (SUNY ESU comes to mind), it typically takes a bit of digging to understand.

First, they won't take any credit for upper level courses. Second, they do take ACE, DSST, and CLEP from what I've gathered. I have a direct email confirmation of the DSST and CLEP, and assume the ACE side from their acceptance of Straighterline, but you should check directly, I'm not sure where the ACE stuff will be helpful past that excepting ALEKS and Penn Foster, since most of the ACE stuff would not apply in any circumstances to a WGU degree. There is nothing quite as clear cut as to what goes as what, however. You're sort of shooting in the dark, but with a bit of work, I pieced together exactly what was required for transferring in as many credits as possible for a business degree.

Start here - Community College Transfers | Online University Admissions | Western Governors University Online

It is discussing Associate degrees, but some of the information is still applicable. It will give you a broad overview.

Secondly, check straighterline - it has info directly from the horses mouth. The sometimes odd notations (2 of 3) etc, will make sense soon.

Thirdly, after doing the above, you should be able to understand the applicable info at their kb - http://kb.wgu.edu/

Goto the Admissions tab, and scroll down to the appropriate xxxx for students admitted after xxx. Then on the right side, are pdfs for each degree area discussing what will transfer in. That is pretty much the entire list they will allow. For example, for their business program, it's possible to get a bit over 70 credits transferred in. Some of those credits required would be a bit difficult to get, and, in fact, it may be easier to go through the WGU class at your own speed.

In the end, you need to realize that WGU is geared more to accept transfer-in from other colleges, and not from the stuff we talk about on these forums.

After doing significant research on WGU, I came to the conclusion that there were some trade-offs. Firstly, it was worthless to me to try to maximize my transfer-in - some of the (must have all 4 of the following) just aren't worth doing outside of WGU. Likewise, WGU is cheap (especially if you're in Indiana), if you're driven. Despite some bad stories about not being able to move as fast as you'd like, there are plenty of success stories about...moving as fast as you'd like. Some of the degrees from WGU - you'd be hard pressed to get elsewhere. The downsides, are that in some ways, the degrees are a bit more tiring than the big 3. You can't just stop attending, there are no gaps allowed, and you have to take and complete so many courses. They also contact you a fair amount, but that could just be because I contacted WGU Indiana a few times (there's a Washington one also) - might be a bit more interested in attracting students than the main branch.

Hope this helps.

PS - In the end I decided not to go with WGU for my undergrad. There were a few reasons, including the fact that it would be easier to finish a business degree at TESC on my own terms. Also, since I have a strong interest in Math, if I wanted to end up teaching Math, it would be easier and faster for me to complete a Math degree, then do the transition to teaching Masters (where I would definitely use WGU Indiana).