Being Helpful versus feeding by hand -- Rant

[TMW2010]

So... With as helpful as people are on this forum, I wonder sometimes...

Are we being too nice? Too helpful? Is our community helping devalue the (plummeting) worth of undergrad degrees?

I see people come into the forum all the time and ask the same questions that have been asked and answered ad nauseum, not bothering to even try to do things for themselves, like searching the site or googling. I've seen people who tout how experienced and uber they are with computers asking questions that can be solved with spending a minute (if that much) on google.

People have complained in the past about Excelsior's Info Lit class... But one thing I've seen having fulfilled the credit is that it does cover the basics on searching the internet (as well as libraries, and so on and so forth). I can see why they want people to fulfill the credit, even with as easy as it is.

There's the post http://www.degreeforum.net/general-educa...sking.html in the main forum, but people don't seem to bother with it.

I'm not talking about people who have questions about the specifics of how something would fit in a degree plan or seeking advice, or things like that, but there's posts like this - http://www.degreeforum.net/excelsior-tho...i-got.html and this type of posts happen regularly.

I'm not affiliated with Instantcert in any way other than being a subscriber, and having tried to contribute to the forum community that’s helped me so much, so of course I have no say in what people post or whatever... But shouldn't someone who wants a degree have a modicum of ability (and motivation) to try and look around for answers instead of just coming in and expecting people to answer their question?

[rickyjo]

With great respect to the mods of this forum, it's difficult to notice the instructional thread in the primary forum when there are so many stickies. One is unlikely to read through them all, that is unless they are familiar with forum and how to locate their rules in general. I bet it mentions it in the email, but I doubt anybody reads the email before they follow the link. I think it's acceptable to direct people to the "read first" thread and then post a link to a starting point that may prove helpful.

[MomOfMany]

Maybe..
As long as you don't mean me..
I never expect anything.
So I am very happy when I receive anything.
I guess some might take offense at the theory that it never hurts to ask.
Asking in no way at all obligates an answer, much less the desired answer.
Maybe you are having a bad day and just need a cheersmate ?
Rethinking every stupid question I've ever had :leaving:

I'm gonna go with the theory that sometimes people have bad days and sometimes people have lazy or ignoramus days and sometimes those days converge and everyone involved should go have a glass of wine or a cold brew or an irish coffee and some chocolate.

[irnbru]

I empathise with your outlook, TMW2010. However, perhaps as a positive shift in perspective, the increasing volume of question-askers is a good indication of the uptake of testing-out?

As always, I have no doubt that for every one person asking a question, there are five more who will never post but find the answer useful. These are the people, probably the silent majority, who are taking the time to do their own research.

One of the issues enabling initial exposure to this forum is the ever-increasing number of posts. Consequently, over time the forum has reached critical mass, making it both the focus of information as well as the starting point for students and potential students i.e. anyone who enters "online degree" or similar into a seach engine. I think by concentrating around the 'big 3' (or two, depending on how you look at it) has given the site a strong niche. Authoritative and respectable, even.

Previously, sites such as Lawrie Miller's bain4weeks were the starting point and main focus. This forum would have been supplementary. Now, as policies change, and these other websites are not updated, the attention shifts here. What sites such as bain4weeks did, was act as a complete beginner's guide, specifically answering questions. It's how I found out about this process a couple of years ago, probably not for newcomers now.

Noone has to answer every repeated post, although the instinct to provide accurate and timely information is a tricky thing to avoid. I also would prefer to see a nice, tidy forum with only new and interesting questions asked. But development doesn't usually go like that. Maybe more dumb people are finding the forum as time goes by, who knows If they are earning college credit, though, probably not so dumb

And yes, for goodness sake use the search functions.

edit: Spelling. Also, if the site is becoming a bugbear, might think about taking a break? You have provided me with useful feedback previously, but if visiting the site is becoming a regular behaviour and causing stress, might knock it on the head for a while? Hmm, maybe we're just getting old and this is the equivalent of us shouting into a paper or at the TV news

And use the search functions.

[Lyanne]

Uh oh, having just asked a question yesterday (and been answered quickly and informatively by you) ....I hope I am not one of those you are increasingly frustrated with.
From my perspective, thinking back on yesterday's question, I guess I thought my situation was unique and would not find the answer by searching. I have also found that searching brings back so many unrelated results that have similar keywords, that it takes too much time to slog through 151 messages that are not even close to what I want, or are close but don't really answer the specific question I am asking. Maybe others feel the same way? We as a people do think after all that we are special and unique individuals. :-)
I do agree also that there are tons of stickies here.

[TMW2010]

Time for a little lesson in the actor/observer difference. (I know, I know, that applies to my post as well...) As the actor, we focus on the external forces and make situational attributions. As the observer, we tend to make behavioral attributions to the actor, due the lack of situational knowledge.

Alrighty then... So... Where were we?

Oh, I thank you all for your concern about the emotional stress you indicate that you think I may be having over the posts, but really... It’s nothing. Venting is a good way to blow off steam. :reddevil:

I try to be helpful to people, sometimes I even succeed But when I don't respond to a question that someone posted that has been asked and answered several times within the other posts on the page (let alone likely over 50+ in the life of the board) and then that person PMs me asking me to answer their question, and THEN posts the same question... Again... in the same forum... That's somewhat aggravating. Is it going to cause me undue long-term emotional hardship? No... It's like that ignorant driver talking on the cellphone as they weave into and out of your lane while you're driving a long, acting like there's not a care in the world, its obnoxious. Luckily, there's no risk of serious injury on the forum. :p

I've been thinking lately a lot about the degree I'm earning and the recent hits that non-traditional schools have been taking, because of things like the for-profit recruiting scandal and such... And yeah, its a stereotype, but I do mentally equate the type of forum poster with which I had shown issue and those students that eagerly enter into schools like UoP prodded by the idea of degree=$$ that end up dragging the classes down from those who are there to work for it and are ready to do so. The same type of students that devalue the name of schools and the degree.

Shrug... You can call me an education 'snob' if you want. It all just seems to go back to entitlement. "I don't want to have to do any work, so it should all just be given to me."

Now, back to my PSY365 paper "Yodelling, Latin America and You: How the Invention of the Spork Brought the World Together" I'm thinking about sending it to the APA to see if I can get it published <nod> <wink> <nod>

[TMW2010]

Uh oh, having just asked a question yesterday (and been answered quickly and informatively by you) ....I hope I am not one of those you are increasingly frustrated with.
From my perspective, thinking back on yesterday's question, I guess I thought my situation was unique and would not find the answer by searching. I have also found that searching brings back so many unrelated results that have similar keywords, that it takes too much time to slog through 151 messages that are not even close to what I want, or are close but don't really answer the specific question I am asking. Maybe others feel the same way? We as a people do think after all that we are special and unique individuals. :-)
I do agree also that there are tons of stickies here.

Hehe I don't want my rant to be taken the wrong way. I don't expect everyone or anyone to be an instant expert on anything, let alone on this forum. And I don't want to be miscontrued as saying people shouldn't post when they have questions. That's what this community is for. To help each other out.

[rebeccal]

Hehe I don't want my rant to be taken the wrong way. I don't expect everyone or anyone to be an instant expert on anything, let alone on this forum. And I don't want to be miscontrued as saying people shouldn't post when they have questions. That's what this community is for. To help each other out.

I'm glad you clarified this. I do try to search for answers, but sometimes searches don't return good results, or the answer might be found in the 80th post in the 100th thread down in response to the search query.

Some of it is being new, too. Not just new to IC, but new to this whole method of education. When I first came here (not all that long ago), I asked a question about EC and someone just posted a link to the EC website in response. No explanation, just a link to the EC website. I had already spent hours on the website, but still didn't understand everything, which is why I asked the question.

Now it's all starting to click for me and I can read things on the EC website and make sense of them, but it wasn't that way right at the beginning. I think this is fairly typical when learning something new.

Hopefully soon I'll be able to answer newbie questions rather than being the "leech" that I currently am. (Yes, I do feel that way sometimes because I'm in the "taking" stage and haven't yet progressed to the "giving" stage on this particular site.)

[rickyjo]

My post count was past a hundred before I contribute meaningfully! You aren't leaching, you are helping us produce content. The questions must be asked.