Why Charter Oak State College is better than Thomas Edison State College

[Lindagerr]

I will not touch the name game, and I admit I have not read all 9 pages of this thread.

My opinion is that you caused a problem when you titled your post as if you had the definitive answer to the best choice for everyone. You did not take into account that not everyone is going for a business degree and that some schools make big difference in the "ease" of getting science degrees for instance. One of the reasons I chose TESC was because I lived in NJ and that made the tuition much cheaper for me. I have taken, CLEP, TECEP. DSST and an old ECE exam I found them all hard to study for but none harder than others as far as the material to study we all have ways that work better for us.

My main point is you need to consider the way you say things and not make definitive statements that ASSUME everyone does things the same as you.

[Devanna]

Wow....this thread has certainly been all over the place. I'm just going to remind all the lurkers reading this thread: What makes a college "better" can be pretty subjective. Different colleges work better for different people. It depends on the individual person and all that really matters is that the college you pick works FOR YOU. Seriously, that's all that matters. Excelsior works for you? Go for it. TESC works for you? Go for it. Do your research and pick your college based on YOUR needs.

[KittenMittens]

Many of the people who have debated with you have never attended TESC. They have no bias toward the school. You also insulted Excelsior and COSC. Presentation is everything. You still have not provided a breakdown of your cost plan that current and/or former COSC students can critique. How are people supposed to follow your plan when it's vague?

I've already addressed the breakdown of my costs in the wiki and the degree plan is fairly straightforward as to what courses a student can take and how they may cost. Costs are difficult to exactly breakdown since every student's situation is different (i.e. courses already taken, what future courses/exams may be taken), but I've highlighted what it would have cost me doing the same courses through TESC under the "enrolled options" plan versus COSC. I've also given the rationale as to why students may want to do the "enrolled options" plan over the "per credit" option where although you save only a couple grand, you are forced to study textbooks for 8 TECEP exams and figure things out on your own. Like I've said before, I don't think it's efficient or a good use of time to read a textbook to prepare for an exam - review materials like instantcert, review books, student feedback work as people have demonstrated on the instantcert website

I think you are being intentionally pedantic and nitpicking over every little detail because you're angry, feel offended, or feel like I'm attacking your intelligence somehow. You're trying to push the idea that TECEPs are better because you save what $34 an exam or that you may pass it without having any review material? That's not a dealbreaker I would say to most people. I've even openly admitted for the umpteenth time now that TESC would be the most attractive option if their TECEP exams had sufficient review materials.

As I've said probably for the umpteenth time now, I think a fair and honest criticism about the pitfalls of COSC,with its cornerstone course and capstone courses being "moneymakers", TESC with its TECEP exams, or Excelsior with its higher price, difficulty transferring credits, or how it sounds to me in is hardly an insult. It is my opinion If you perceive it as an insult, then it's best if you just ignore it and move on. The benefits of these programs are that you can complete a program rapidly, quickly, easily, and cheaply, and that's something commendable about these programs. But stating that these programs are exactly what they are, not a top tier degree, is hardly an insult - it's just a fact. Some people may feel offended that they worked very hard for to get these degrees, but I can't do anything about how they feel, I can only state my opinion

[sanantone]

Well, I'm sorry that you and/or some others were offended, but I've said nothing out of the ordinary. You don't see people from well established and well known programs getting so upset because they know they don't need to prove themselves. I am happy I received my degree and for myself, I know what its benefits and limitations are. I personally attended COSC, so I speak from personal experience as well about the programs, and my opinions on them. Anger can be construed also as sensitivity about one's credentials as well, and if you are confident about what you've done, then you shouldn't get so upset and then call for censorship because it offends you. The beauty of free speech is that anyone can have a voice; we don't live in China for that reason. You should be encouraging dissent and discussion rather than bulldozing your own views...

Actually, you do see people from traditional colleges getting offended online. People here aren't being insecure about their credentials because most of them have met their goals; they are offended by outright lies. We know that the Big 3 are unranked, non-traditional schools and have no problem with it.

From my experience, Charter Oak's cornerstone course, for example, was a joke and a way for the college to make some extra money - ok fine, that's how they do it no problem. Half the students in this online course couldn't properly read, write, or comprehend what was asked of them. All three programs will accept anyone and everyone - that's a fact. Now obviously how likely an individual student will succeed is another question, but you don't see more established programs just accepting anyone no questions asked (they want to see more coursework, standardized exam scores, recommendations, etc). Yes, in a sense, these three colleges are like degree mills the big benefit with them being regionally accredited which can serve the purposes for many of us. I would argue, as angry as it may make you or anyone else on this forum, that taking one exam is not enough to prove competency in that subject. That's why you see more people getting degrees in easier subjects like business administration, rather than computer science, molecular biology, or physics through "testing out."

I already said the bolded part, but even when some COSC students are able to do well on these things, you explain their acceptance to competitive programs as being luck. Top 20 schools aren't the only schools with competitive admissions into their graduate programs.

Students don't test out of those degrees because there aren't enough tests for those degrees. Overall, business administration majors are the most abundant regardless of their method of completing their degree. They even far outnumber psychology majors, which is the second most popular degree. Test companies are developing tests that people are most likely to take. Why would they develop tests for molecular biology when there are hardly any people majoring in molecular biology relative to business administration?

The problem Sanantone is that you are too pedantic about everything. For every post that you show saying that high school grades are the best predictors of success, I can find another 10 that show otherwise. Mark Twain famously stated, "There are lies, damned lies and statistics."

Find an independent study that says so. Don't use ACT or SAT's reports.

As far as the payscale study, I've provided some references as to the pitfalls in their methodologies that you can refer to from a previous post. I don't care so much how they calculated their data as far as stating that their salary reports are misleading. Here's the ranking from payscale: Best Schools for Liberal Arts Majors - College Salary Report . It shows Excelsior College with the highest starting salary and median income - and that's simply because people at Excelsior College already have a job - typically between the age of 30 - 50 or so, and also entered the economy when times were better. A liberal arts graduate even from a top tier school like Cornell may not even hit $47,000 starting right out of college in a liberal arts degree. You have to ask yourself a simple question and that is why these Excelsior College liberal arts graduates are getting the highest salary. It's certainly not because of prestige because Excelsior is low ranked/for "non-traditional" students, so I don't know why you think this statistic is so amazing.

Starting salary is starting salary. It means the person is at the beginning of his or her career regardless of age. Independent of that, one would expect liberal arts graduates from high-ranking schools to be beating out Excelsior when it comes to mid-career salaries.

You're clearly implying that standardized exams don't deserve as much merit as they do. On one hand you're saying that multiple choice tests are not good evaluators of analytical thinking, so if they're not, then logically you wouldn't want to use them. No standardized or even regular exam is without its flaws, but they do test certain concepts specifically under pressure and against a national standard where all students are compared against. When it comes to technical subjects like math, science, medicine, engineering, those tests are pretty good at establishing core proficiencies. In some cases you either know something or you don't. The major pitfall with coursework is that you may end up not really learning anything, having an instructor that may be too biased one way or another, or a million other reasons - standardized exams are imperfect (as is every other test), but they gauge everyone to the same standard. It is at least fairer and based on merit to some degree because everyone has to take the same thing. The good news also is that standardized exams are trainable (i.e. through practice tests, review materials, proper coaching/conditioning/etc), and there are test companies whose business model is based on that. In any case, the topic is entirely too complicated to just basely state that multiple choice exams are not good at testing analytical ability.

I think you're confusing memorization and the ability to solve math problems with analytical thinking.

Well, technical graduate programs don't put too much emphasis on the GRE's written section. I know that income is not the only yardstick for success, but in some practical matters, all students do want to know what degrees/careers pay the most - so people informally put more emphasis/show more interest in the degrees/careers that pay more. So with that said, in my informal opinion, I personally care more about how these top institutions assess GRE scores and what parts of them. In particular, very prestigious technical graduate programs care more about quantitative ability perhaps to the detriment of the verbal section, which is why you'll see students with 790/800 GRE scores, but 500/800 verbal scores (I think they changed the scale a few years ago, but you get the idea...) sometimes.

Certain types of programs put more weight on the quantitative sections. The cutoff scores for the verbal sections are lower because the percentiles are lower. A score of 700 on the quantitative section is not the same as a score of 700 on the verbal section. 700 on the verbal section will put you into a higher percentile.

[KittenMittens]

I will not touch the name game, and I admit I have not read all 9 pages of this thread.

My opinion is that you caused a problem when you titled your post as if you had the definitive answer to the best choice for everyone. You did not take into account that not everyone is going for a business degree and that some schools make big difference in the "ease" of getting science degrees for instance. One of the reasons I chose TESC was because I lived in NJ and that made the tuition much cheaper for me. I have taken, CLEP, TECEP. DSST and an old ECE exam I found them all hard to study for but none harder than others as far as the material to study we all have ways that work better for us.

My main point is you need to consider the way you say things and not make definitive statements that ASSUME everyone does things the same as you.

I've addressed this in a previous post where I stated: "I think most of the readers knew what I was saying. I quickly typed a title post as I don't post much on forums, but the intent/message was stating that a degree through Charter Oak would probably be more practical (in my opinion) compared to one for TESC for various reasons. Decent people know what I am saying rather than trying to politicize a trivial issue. If I really hated on TESC, then why would I actually prefer to go there? My first choice was TESC ideally but the lack of prep for TECEP exams was a major dealbreaker for me. I did my degree through COSC, and disliked having to do two courses through them, but it ended up being cheaper for me than TESC, and more practical thanks to the instantcert.com flash cards, practice exams available, and forum advice available for the topics. I think most students would agree that choosing between an exam where you have to study with a textbook alone is an unattractive option compared to one where there are study guides, practice exams, and student feedback forums on the types of exam questions, and topics covered."

If I could revise the title of the thread to something more appropriate, but it's not an option once a thread is posted.

[sanantone]

I've already addressed the breakdown of my costs in the wiki and the degree plan is fairly straightforward as to what courses a student can take and how they may cost. Costs are difficult to exactly breakdown since every student's situation is different (i.e. courses already taken, what future courses/exams may be taken), but I've highlighted what it would have cost me doing the same courses through TESC under the "enrolled options" plan versus COSC. I've also given the rationale as to why students may want to do the "enrolled options" plan over the "per credit" option where although you save only a couple grand, you are forced to study textbooks for 8 TECEP exams and figure things out on your own. Like I've said before, I don't think it's efficient or a good use of time to read a textbook to prepare for an exam - review materials like instantcert, review books, student feedback work as people have demonstrated on the instantcert website

I think you are being intentionally pedantic and nitpicking over every little detail because you're angry, feel offended, or feel like I'm attacking your intelligence somehow. You're trying to push the idea that TECEPs are better because you save what $34 an exam or that you may pass it without having any review material? That's not a dealbreaker I would say to most people. I've even openly admitted for the umpteenth time now that TESC would be the most attractive option if their TECEP exams had sufficient review materials.

As I've said probably for the umpteenth time now, I think a fair and honest criticism about the pitfalls of COSC,with its cornerstone course and capstone courses being "moneymakers", TESC with its TECEP exams, or Excelsior with its higher price, difficulty transferring credits, or how it sounds to me in is hardly an insult. It is my opinion If you perceive it as an insult, then it's best if you just ignore it and move on. The benefits of these programs are that you can complete a program rapidly, quickly, easily, and cheaply, and that's something commendable about these programs. But stating that these programs are exactly what they are, not a top tier degree, is hardly an insult - it's just a fact. Some people may feel offended that they worked very hard for to get these degrees, but I can't do anything about how they feel, I can only state my opinion

You highlighted how COSC was cheaper for you. How does that help everyone else? Now, you're admitting every student situation is different, so costs are difficult to breakdown. So, how did you come to the conclusion that COSC would be cheaper for most people?

When you take college courses, you don't get practice exams. You will only get review materials if your instructor is nice and easy. They definitely aren't going to create flashcards for you. TECEPs are like final exams. You either read and understood the material or you didn't. There is no need for some third party to create review material.

[EI2HCB]

Excelsior, a no name ... Excelsior is the state motto for the state of New York. It has a definite connection for the millions connected to the State of New York. It is also listed on numerous other colleges in their credit by exam policies as an acceptable form of transfer credit for their ECE / Uexcel courses, the idea that not many CEO's have a no name degree, Excelsior currently has about 38,000 students each year, to imply that they don't reach all levels of society is either biased or misinformed. If we were to further define it and state that they don't become CEO's of fortune 500 companies it may be closer to the truth. I'm glad you have found the college that was right for you at the right price. Excelsior was and is that college for me! Ever upward!

[KittenMittens]

You highlighted how COSC was cheaper for you. How does that help everyone else? Now, you're admitting every student situation is different, so costs are difficult to breakdown. So, how did you come to the conclusion that COSC would be cheaper for most people?

When you take college courses, you don't get practice exams. You will only get review materials if your instructor is nice and easy. They definitely aren't going to create flashcards for you. TECEPs are like final exams. You either read and understood the material or you didn't. There is no need for some third party to create review material.

There are a few conditions that are established before I claim COSC is cheaper than TESC for the type of person this program is geared for:

1) Not using TESC’s “per credit” plan. We’re comparing TESC’s “enrolled plan” with a regular COSC Business Degree .
1) No TECEPs exams taken - because there’s no review materials, and the student this guide is geared to wants to get a degree as easily, cheaply, and conveniently as possible. This includes the use of Penn Foster courses, ALEKS, etc. as well to satisfy that purpose as some exams like the DSST in Finance are known for being too hard (low pass rates as shown on instantcert.com)
3) With no TECEP exams taken, we’re comparing taking the same exact coursework between COSC and TESC’s “enrolled options” plan. Because of that the figures end up being about $500 - $1000 different.

When you take college courses, you don't get practice exams. You will only get review materials if your instructor is nice and easy. They definitely aren't going to create flashcards for you. TECEPs are like final exams. You either read and understood the material or you didn't. There is no need for some third party to create review material.

Most students who are here don’t want to sit down and thoroughly study and become a master in some random subject. Some do, most are not like you. They don't want to be perpetual students. Most want to learn something, but also want to get their college degree quickly, cheaply, and conveniently. That’s what websites like bain4weeks.com, or 123collegedegree.com are about. Those websites, this forum, and the degreewikias have a tremendous amount of feedback and questions about doing that.

Like you’ve said, TECEPs are like final exams - you have to read the material which is a dry, lengthy textbook. Anything where there is prep material for i.e.: UExcels, DSSTs, and CLEP exams you don’t need to. Most people would agree that they would rather read a 20 page pamphlet from instantcert, or study guide, with some practice tests to get credit rather than spending hours and hours reading a textbook from cover to cover only to not know what may or may not be in the test. That's why instantcert.com even exists because it helps narrow down what to study for - it just tells you what you need to know to pass the exam. So it is more efficient.

Yes your method is fine, it saves you $2000, but some people do not want to spend all that time to save $2000. For many, it is my goal to show that by spending a little extra, you can get the credits more easily and effortlessly than by meticulously and slowly going through a textbook. Most students don’t even like reading textbooks, they’re generally boring, dry, and hard to pay attention to.

[sanantone]

There are a few conditions that are established before I claim COSC is cheaper than TESC for the type of person this program is geared for:

1) Not using TESC’s “per credit” plan. We’re comparing TESC’s “enrolled plan” with a regular COSC Business Degree .
1) No TECEPs exams taken - because there’s no review materials, and the student this guide is geared to wants to get a degree as easily, cheaply, and conveniently as possible. This includes the use of Penn Foster courses, ALEKS, etc. as well to satisfy that purpose as some exams like the DSST in Finance are known for being too hard (low pass rates as shown on instantcert.com)
3) With no TECEP exams taken, we’re comparing taking the same exact coursework between COSC and TESC’s “enrolled options” plan. Because of that the figures end up being about $500 - $1000 different.



Most students who are here don’t want to sit down and thoroughly study and become a master in some random subject. Some do, most are not like you. They don't want to be perpetual students. Most want to learn something, but also want to get their college degree quickly, cheaply, and conveniently. That’s what websites like bain4weeks.com, or 123collegedegree.com are about. Those websites, this forum, and the degreewikias have a tremendous amount of feedback and questions about doing that.

Like you’ve said, TECEPs are like final exams - you have to read the material which is a dry, lengthy textbook. Anything where there is prep material for i.e.: UExcels, DSSTs, and CLEP exams you don’t need to. Most people would agree that they would rather read a 20 page pamphlet from instantcert, or study guide, with some practice tests to get credit rather than spending hours and hours reading a textbook from cover to cover only to not know what may or may not be in the test. That's why instantcert.com even exists because it helps narrow down what to study for - it just tells you what you need to know to pass the exam. So it is more efficient.

Yes your method is fine, it saves you $2000, but some people do not want to spend all that time to save $2000. For many, it is my goal to show that by spending a little extra, you can get the credits more easily and effortlessly than by meticulously and slowly going through a textbook. Most students don’t even like reading textbooks, they’re generally boring, dry, and hard to pay attention to.

You're assuming that most people want a business degree? Why are you assuming most people are like you? I've been on this forum since 2011, and many, if not most, of the posters spend as much time studying for an exam as it would take to read a textbook.

[KittenMittens]

Even Joshua Graham from 123collegedegree.com, who was the pioneer in designing a plan for testing out of college degrees (as well as bain4weeks.com) states:

123collegedegree.com/collegecredits.html

"What are my different options to study for the exams?

1) Not study at all. Some people may feel they already know all that is necessary for the exam and therefore do not study at all.* This is usually not recommended unless you really feel that you are pretty knowledgable in the exam subject area.* For example, people who speak spanish fluently should be able to ace the CLEP Spanish exam.

2) You can buy related textbooks.* This is usually the preferred way to study for the exams.* The textbook is what you would normally use in a classroom setting.* However, this requires a lot of additional costs to find the correct textbook to study for.* Then you would have to take the time to go through each textbook and figure out what parts would be most relevant to the exam.* I created a booklist that is a compiled reference list of recommended textbooks that would offer you the most in passing the exams.

3) You can get study guides or "cliff notes". This is what everybody wants:* the quick and easy way to study the main points of what will be covered on the test.* But a similar problem still arises:* which ones are best for each exam? There are literally 1000's of them on the market.* Some are really good, and some are not so good.* You can go through the trial and error process like I did, or you can use the materials recommended below or in the degree plan.


What makes InstantCert Academy so great?

To put it bluntly, InstantCert cuts though all the fat and gives you the meat of what you need to know to successfully pass the credit-by-examination exams (CLEP, DSST, ECE, TECEP, etc.).* Over 3,000 US colleges and universities accept credit-by-examination in one form or another.* They've made it as simple as possible.

Instantcert vs iStudySmart...

iStudySmart takes a very in-depth approach in covering the material that will be on the test.* It is highly recommended ONLY if you either cannot find the study guide in instantcert or recommended textbook as outlined in my BS Roadmap.* Or, perhaps you did purchase the recommended textbook, but need additional guidance in picking out what topics to concentrate on to ace the exam.* Their study guides cost $139-189 a piece.* Compared to InstantCert Academy's $20/month.

For those of us on a budget, or simply want a simple, effective study guide for the test, InstantCert does the trick.* However, iStudySmart takes a more "hands-on-book" approach.* If there is no instantcert guide for an exam that you want to take, or there is an InstantCert guide but you are having a hard time grasping the concepts, then the iStudySmart guides should provide you with what you need.

Why do you promote instantcert so much?

It allowed me to complete an AAS in Electromechanical Studies and a BS in General Business degree requirements from Excelsior College* in 6 months by providing the study material necessary for me to ace the CLEP, DSST, ECE, and TECEP exams in record time.

I uploaded scanned images of my transcripts for those that need more proof.

*Excelsior College, Albany, NY is regionally accredited by the Middle States Association of Colleges and Schools and is recognized by the US Dept. of Education.* They do not endorse this site.* For more information on Excelsior's degree programs, click here.

How should I study using Instantcert?

Everything is online, so you can access the study material from anywhere you can access the internet.* There is no one right way to study.* Some people study while listening to their favorite CD.* Others must have complete silence.* The main thing to remember is that this is college-level material. Take it seriously.* I bought legal pads and took notes just like it were a physical textbook.

When you understand and can recogize most of the concepts presented in the study guide, you are ready to take the real exam.* Do not randomize the questions (you'll understand this when you login to instantcert).

Could I still pass the CLEP, DSST, ECE, etc. with out an instantcert/iStudySmart membership?

Yes, you could.* But can you afford $100+ for EACH recommended textbook?* Do you have time to spend months diving into a completely unfamiliar topic?* Only to be studying the wrong information?* Probably not."

So I really don't think what I'm advocating about TECEPs being less attractive options for the time being compared to many UExcels that have review materials, practice exams, and sufficient student feedback is really that unreasonable. I am not alone in thinking that, and even he agrees that going through a textbook is inefficient and that students want quick, easy, and convenient methods for getting credit fast, cheap, and easily. And why not? It's human nature to want to go for the path of least resistance. It's not a degree from a mid-tier or high tier school but it's regionally accredited and that's what many people need/want with these types of things.