Why Charter Oak State College is better than Thomas Edison State College

[sanantone]

Sanantone, I think you make several good points, and your advice in the forums and your degree wikis personally helped me a lot



A UExcel and TECEP exam are about the same price. TECEP exams are $37/credit so $37 * 3 = $111/one exam + test admin fee let's say $25.00 = ~$140 – $150.
UExcel exam fees are $95 + $50 test admin fee for Pearson test center = $145.00. Let's say they're about the same.

Unfortunately, you made a bold wiki entry without having done enough research. TECEPs are $111, period. There is no additional cost for using ProctorU. I know because I've taken a TECEP.

The most important reason why UExcels are superior, imho, is because there is test taker data: 1) instantcert flash cards 2) degreeforum.net instantcert forums for test advice 3) pass/failure rate info for UExcel exams 4) practice exams you can take.

Many have recommended reading the textbooks for Uexcels because the Instantcert flashcards are not enough to score high. Besides, there aren't Instantcert flashcards for most of the Uexcels.

All of these allowed me to take the UExcel exams without using ANY textbooks. I didn't need a textbook for DSST Substance Abuse, DSST Business Ethics, UExcel Organizational Behavior, UExcel Human Resources Management, UExcel Labor Relations, etc and I never really had a background in any of the subject. It was the combination of the flash cards, forum advice, and practice exams that allowed me to pass and do well on all the exams.

Many people have failed CLEPs and DSSTs using the Instantcert flashcards. They worked for YOU; they worked fine for me. A lot of people are uncomfortable with using only the IC flashcards. I can study for a test for a couple of hours and pass, but most people can't do that. As I said earlier, the some of the feedback is from before exams were refreshed. A few people have stated that the feedback did not align well with the newly refreshed DSSTs. The same also applies to IC flashcards.

Yes, the other advantage with TECEPs are that they are not given a grade –*but I think that getting a B or A in the UExcels I described above is not that difficult. If a student is in a position where they can't get a B in some of these UExcel exams, then graduate level work may be too much. Of course, they could be a bad test taker, but still.

Most people don't go to graduate school, but want a high GPA for other purposes. For graduate school, you need to be better at writing than multiple choice testing.

More importantly, I think the threshold most students will need for graduate level work is a 3.00 –*after looking at most of the types of programs that one of these degrees will open doors to (we're not talking ivy league here), most have indicated a 3.00 would be acceptable (many MBA programs come to mind like West Texas A&B's).

Many people have greater aspirations than West Texas A&M. There are many colleges that aren't Ivy League, but have competitive admissions.

Yes, this is true, though I've read that the TECEP exam is pretty indepth and difficult even with instantcert. You do get to avoid having to take the pointless cornerstone course (it really is), and the capstone course, though the upsides with COSC is that you'll probably save a few hundred bucks in the end. I think that distinction needs to be made.

No, you would save over $2,000 by taking TECEPs.

I would say that from the data provided for UExcel, that they are more documented, have more student/test taker information, and accurate/relevant flash cards. From here: InstantCert: CLEP Online Study Guides it shows data for, and there is little data available about the TECEPs. Hopefully in the future there are more subjects and more student data/forum advice for these TECEP Exams. But I know that as of now the forum advice (which was extremely helpful for me), the flash cards, and UExcel practice exams were extremely helpful for passing (I received all As and Bs in my UExcels). For myself, and I think for most students, they don't want to be inconvenienced with a textbook, and that is a major advantage with the UExcels imo.

Most of the students here use multiple sources to study for their exams. Many also read whole books made for CLEP and DSST such as REA. Again, I can spend a couple of hours on flashcards and pass a test, but I know most people cannot do this. You can't make assumptions about other people based on your own experiences. Everyone is different. This also applies to assuming that most people who are comfortable with testing will be uncomfortable with TECEPs. Many members of this forum are perfectly fine with taking TECEPs.

I prefer testing, but I don't like lack of information having to rely on a textbook, because that means I have to scour through it all, and not know what may or may not be tested on it. Having official practice tests/questions is extremely important whether it's the MCAT, SAT, GRE, GMAT, UExcel, DSST, etc. – it allows you to know what the test takers focus in on –*having student feedback, and test company review is even better – that's what UExcel has and why I gravitated towards them. In some cases, I found that the practice exams were all that were needed to at least pass (and I'm not a genius, perhaps slightly above average). If TESC had a comprehensive chart that showed how UExcels would transfer in it would be good.

I've never had any use for practice exams. Again, we're all different. TESC gives you a breakdown of what's going to be on the test. Some people prefer more in depth studying for their tests because they want to obtain the equivalent knowledge of having taken the course.

Not sure why they have more students –*I think it could be because Albany is a metropolitan area where there are far more people, more colleges, and people living in New York versus Connecticut or New Jersey. I'm from the upstate NY region myself, and I know some people who have an Excelsior College degree and it always rubbed me the wrong way like it was an "inferior degree." I mean this is personal discretion in the end, and up to an employer, but name does matter, if not the most – it's not what you learn, it's who you know/where you're from (i.e. Wall Street picks people from ivy league schools only, or going to Berkeley or Stanford is better for engineering). It's the difference between Nike and Wal-Mart brand even if both could possibly have come from the same factory. I know for me, I didn't like the name "Excelsior College" and though it wasn't a primary reason for not going with them, it didn't help either. I personally like Thomas Edison State College better –*it sounds more "legit", Charter Oak State College sounds slightly "iffy" but at least it's a state college in Connecticut. Here's another example, I have a friend who went to "Bowling Green State University" in Ohio, and it comes off like a very low-tier school. The most important thing is how the name makes you feel – does it sound authentic (yes we know they're all authentic), would someone wonder/question if it's like University of Phoenix, Kaplan University, or Devry, which are all garbage?

Excelsior has more students than the other two because more of their students are NOT from the local area. Excelsior is very well-known among the military and working adults across the country looking for a more flexible way to complete their degrees. The reputations of University of Phoenix, Kaplan, Devry, and the Ivy Leagues come from how they operate and word-of-mouth, not their names. There is nothing fishy about the name "University of Phoenix." The school has a bad reputation because of people's experiences with the school. Walmart shoes are considered inferior to Nikes because they are. It has nothing to do with the name.

Eh, I wouldn't put too much stock on college supplied income/earnings especially when it's coming from the college themselves. I think a person's earnings/income is more based on how hard they work, how much work experience, hands on experience, connections, etc they have –*in other words, if it's not an ivy league caliber school, the college degree is more of a nuisance, a "piece of paper" more than anything else. It is something that allows you to get a bump in pay particularly in very bureaucratic and hierarchical institutions (i.e. state and fed jobs). I personally work for the state, and my foreign degree from India is obviously not regionally accredited, so for me, the absence of a bachelor's prevents me from getting paid at a higher grade.

It wasn't college-supplied. It was based on Payscale's survey of 1.4 million people.

[sanantone]

OP says -- TESC charges you $3,279 annually

OP says -- "It's cheaper (For me it was $500 –$1,500)"

so OP paid at a max of 2779

and you say "but if it means saving over $2,000 over your COSC plan."

so you're saying a TESC degree can be had for $ 779 ?

what am I reading wrong ?

The OP's plan costs over $5,700. He's comparing TESC's enrollment fee under the Enrolled Options plan with what is paid for the required courses at COSC. Completing the whole degree does not cost $2,779. You can see the OP's plan on the wiki. Under the Per Credit Tuition Plan, the BSBA can be completed at TESC for under $3,000.

[Exfactor]

I think you should re-read what I wrote more carefully. I didn't compare the education, or the credentials of Excelsior College to for-profit schools like Devry, Kaplan, or University of Phoenix, I specifically compared the NAME. Just like how a Hyundai or Kia don't have the brand name of a Honda or Toyota and the reputation, but they are now known for being extremely well built, reliable cars. I think you guys are reading too much into the name game – and not the more technical points several of which have been brought up by others.

...And what exactly does a name mean? The majority of resumes that go through human resources come from unknown colleges and universities. My sister became an executive at a health insurance company based out of San Antonio, TX with only an associates degree from a unknown community college, making over 100,000 a year. The company recently paid for her to get her bachelors degree from Strayer University, a for profit university. Yet, her employees with degrees from well known state and university schools are making only 30-50k a year. Let me guess, you buy Apple products just because it has an Apple logo on the back?

[sanantone]

There is some truth to your statement. I'm sure my resume has been overlooked by some because it said TESC on it rather than Georgetown or NYU.

There is no truth to the statement. TESC's reputation comes from being a non-traditional school; it does not come from how the name sounds.

I’m referring specifically to people who want to use a combination of taking relatively easy/“doable” credit exams + “easy” Penn Foster/Aleks/etc. cheap courses. Of course, if a student wants to complete a degree mainly through taking traditional courses, then more power to them – but I feel like most people here on the forums are looking for the quickest, cheapest, and easiest ways to getting the degrees (which are through instantcert flash cards, forum advice, practic exams, with some supplementary/referential materials i.e. google, wikipedia, random textbook, etc.)

Taking a TECEP was easier for me than completing College Algebra through ALEKS. As I said before, you are making many baseless assumptions. ALEKS courses are very tedious for many. Many people have complained about their statistics courses.

[sanantone]

I think you should re-read what I wrote more carefully. I didn't compare the education, or the credentials of Excelsior College to for-profit schools like Devry, Kaplan, or University of Phoenix, I specifically compared the NAME. Just like how a Hyundai or Kia don't have the brand name of a Honda or Toyota and the reputation, but they are now known for being extremely well built, reliable cars. I think you guys are reading too much into the name game – and not the more technical points several of which have been brought up by others. And I did my undergraduate degree in India in Economics and Political Science (though we followed the British System so our grading was different, and college there is only 2 years not 4 years). I had about 60 credits transferred in through WES –*and needed to finish another 60 credits through the States. I will be receiving my B.S. in Business Administration.

Hyundai was terrible when it first started. Kias were some of the most unreliable vehicles up until just several years ago. Hyundai and Kia haven't had as much time to build a good reputation as Honda and Toyota. It has nothing to do with how Hyundai and Kia sound. Your whole argument against Excelsior's name is based on how it sounds to you.

[KittenMittens]

Unfortunately, you made a bold wiki entry without having done enough research. TECEPs are $111, period. There is no additional cost for using ProctorU. I know because I've taken a TECEP.

I was comparing doing the same coursework (i.e. same UExcel exams, same DSSTs, etc.) if done through TECEP.

Many have recommended reading the textbooks for Uexcels because the Instantcert flashcards are not enough to score high. Besides, there aren't Instantcert flashcards for most of the Uexcels. Many people have failed CLEPs and DSSTs using the Instantcert flashcards. They worked for YOU; they worked fine for me. A lot of people are uncomfortable with using only the IC flashcards. I can study for a test for a couple of hours and pass, but most people can't do that. As I said earlier, the some of the feedback is from before exams were refreshed. A few people have stated that the feedback did not align well with the newly refreshed DSSTs. The same also applies to IC flashcards.

For the ones I mentioned, and from the forum information I provided, I don’t think the UExcel exams I mentioned are truly out of the water. I think the harder DSST exams are like the Finance one (which I why I recommended doing the Penn Foster Financial Management course instead), and exams like UExcel Quantitative Analysis which don’t have any information/little-no student feedback.

Most importantly, I think instantcert.com tried to figure out which subjects had the most doable subjects, and I think students naturally tend to gravitate towards the exams that are easiest, and most doable – and instantcert.com and degreeforum.net’s instantcert forums reflect that.

Most people don't go to graduate school, but want a high GPA for other purposes. For graduate school, you need to be better at writing than multiple choice testing.

True, but test taking also tests logical thinking and analytical ability as well –*being able to write is half of the equation, the other part is developing/having a proficiency in the subject.

Many people have greater aspirations than West Texas A&M. There are many colleges that aren't Ivy League, but have competitive admissions.

This is true, and in those cases they should look into ensuring good GPAs and possibly completing a degree from a “better” name school.

No, you would save over $2,000 by taking TECEPs.

On the other hand, I would argue that the time you’d have to put into the TECEP degree would mean it’s more involved –*and time is money in the end. If you have to spend more time scouring and reading a textbook (which I’d personally argue is one of the worst ways to prepare for a standardized exam), those are lost hours.

What you are personally doing, Sanantone, is commendable, and you do get the benefit of saving a couple grand because of that. However, most people cannot do that (what you are doing is more out of reach for most people than what I am advocating)

Most of the students here use multiple sources to study for their exams. Many also read whole books made for CLEP and DSST such as REA. Again, I can spend a couple of hours on flashcards and pass a test, but I know most people cannot do this. You can't make assumptions about other people based on your own experiences. Everyone is different. This also applies to assuming that most people who are comfortable with testing will be uncomfortable with TECEPs. Many members of this forum are perfectly fine with taking TECEPs.

Well, I’m making an assumption that a person is of average intelligence, decent work ethic, and has a demonstrated interest in at least passing the exams. I think that’s not too much to expect of an average person. These exams I mentioned are certainly not as in-depth as a traditional course, and the pass rates, forum feedback, flash cards, practice exams, etc. seem to strongly suggest that they are very doable. That’s why they post on the instantcert.com website their pass rates (of course there is a selection bias where people who pass are more likely to report info than those who fail –*but still data is data).

I’ve never had any use for practice exams. Again, we're all different. TESC gives you a breakdown of what's going to be on the test. Some people prefer more in depth studying for their tests because they want to obtain the equivalent knowledge of having taken the course.

Again, referring to the average, motivated person (maybe our definitions are different), who doesn’t have any out of the ordinary major academic/mental deficiencies, all other things being equal, would you want to take an exam just knowing what the breakdown of the exam is, or having practice tests and/or flash cards and/or forum advice? Yes, some people want to do more in-depth studying, and that’s fine, but it’s reasonable to assume that most people are spending a few grand for a degree mainly to have the degree for career/academic advancement purposes. Yes there are life learners, etc – and in those cases, I would actually steer them away from these exams, and push them towards MOOCs that do a better job of giving a comprehensive education (I’m talking about Udacity, Udemy, Coursera, Open MIT, Open Stanford, Open Harvard, etc.)

It wasn't college-supplied. It was based on Payscale's survey of 1.4 million people.

I’d always take reported incomes, particularly from Payscale, with a grain of salt. I think GlassDoor’s data is better on that regard. JD’s incomes are grossly exaggerated post-law school, as are college graduates. The age-old statistic that college graduates make a million more than a high school graduate are not always accurate given how expensive college has become, and the dearth of jobs available in this day and age. Certainly, for the bachelor’s degree, opportunities HAVE gone downhill, unless they are in a technical/in high demand field i.e. engineering, CS, health, etc.

[KittenMittens]

The OP's plan costs over $5,700. He's comparing TESC's enrollment fee under the Enrolled Options plan with what is paid for the required courses at COSC. Completing the whole degree does not cost $2,779. You can see the OP's plan on the wiki. Under the Per Credit Tuition Plan, the BSBA can be completed at TESC for under $3,000.

Right – but again the major problem being that you have to take 8 TECEP exams where again there is a void of practice exams, instantcert flash cards, and forum advice. There's a reason for that because just like how Excelsior has more students, it has more students taking their exams – data is power, and that is very critical for success. I think trying to complete the TESC degree for less than $3000 is an admirable thing to do, but it is unlikely for most to succeed. The plan I and burbuja0512 used, I would argue is the best bang for buck as far as time, money, and ease goes – if someone is in a similar position/mind set of course.

[KittenMittens]

...And what exactly does a name mean? The majority of resumes that go through human resources come from unknown colleges and universities. My sister became an executive at a health insurance company based out of San Antonio, TX with only an associates degree from a unknown community college, making over 100,000 a year. The company recently paid for her to get her bachelors degree from Strayer University, a for profit university. Yet, her employees with degrees from well known state and university schools are making only 30-50k a year. Let me guess, you buy Apple products just because it has an Apple logo on the back?

I'm not going to argue the merits of a name or lack of name. Like I've said I gave my personal opinion on that – and I buy an Apple product in confidence based on its reputation and yes even the logo/build of the product, which I think is pretty

Your sister is more the exception than the norm for a reason – whether it be talent, hard work, luck, being at the right place right time, etc. of a combination of factors. Most people with an associate's level degree DON'T make over $100,000.

[KittenMittens]

There is no truth to the statement. TESC's reputation comes from being a non-traditional school; it does not come from how the name sounds. Taking a TECEP was easier for me than completing College Algebra through ALEKS. As I said before, you are making many baseless assumptions. ALEKS courses are very tedious for many. Many people have complained about their statistics courses.

One of the things I would say about you Sanantone is that you are definitely more motivated than the average or even motivated person. You are like an enyclopedia of knowledge when it comes to this stuff, to that I humbly concede, and I used your sample guides on the wiki for deciding between TESC and COSC.

I actually would have preferred to go through TESC – so any comments people are making that I am dissing their colleges should not be relevant as far as TESC and COSC go (I wasn't even dissing Excelsior – the education is all the same, I was merely talking about the name game which is a relevant factor for many).

The major problem I had with your degree programs (and I like to think that I am fairly competent, intelligent, and decent work ethic), was the lack of quick, easy, and practical materials for the TECEP exams. If TECEP had those, as well as sufficient Instantcert/DegreeForum materials, I would have gone with them. I'm a decent/good test taker, and whether it has been in college, or standardized exams, the golden rule has always been to obtain old exams from previous students, taking lots of practice questions/exams, and using the best review materials possible. In many cases, that has meant materials like The Princeton Review, Kaplan Review, InstantCert.com, Cliff's Notes, etc. I'm sure that I would personally pass some of the exams for TECEP, but not without a great deal of annoyance and frustration not knowing what would probably be on the exam. I would caution and urge most students to absolutely always do practice exams and use a good review material/book for any standardized exam and I think that's good advice in general.

[KittenMittens]

Hyundai was terrible when it first started. Kias were some of the most unreliable vehicles up until just several years ago. Hyundai and Kia haven't had as much time to build a good reputation as Honda and Toyota. It has nothing to do with how Hyundai and Kia sound. Your whole argument against Excelsior's name is based on how it sounds to you.

The point I am trying to make is that Hyundai sounds bad to me even though I know they make quality products. Their Hyundai Azera which is their flagship $40,000 car is a beautiful, and well-crafted product, but for $40,000, I would rather prefer to buy a BMW or a Mercedes instead even if it's of less/cheaper quality. The name Hyundai for whatever reasons, sounds cheap even though I know they make quality products now.

Perhaps a better analogy is a person's name – I can speak from personal experience having an indian name that many Americans have trouble pronouncing my name, and I know from personal experience that it has harmed me in various ways –*so I've used an American nickname instead. People like the nickname more, it's easier to pronounce, and it's more familiar and relatable to them. So I can definitely say that name has an effect –*now whether or not that effect is measurable is another thing, but I think some names are more popular than others (i.e. John, Chris, Sara, etc.).