Warning: MUST Have STEM or Business Degree

[burbuja0512]

Background:   Since I got my degree at COSC (and even a little before) I have been working in international business.   My last job was as Head of Global Sales at a prominent medical organization and they had me traveling around 250k miles per year.   Well, as much as that sounds like a dream job, it was literally going to kill me.  Not to mention that I have a family and I do enjoy seeing them as much as possible.

So, I took a small break and have been doing consulting.    BUT, the consulting is not really for me and I have started to casually look for another international sales job... hopefully one with less travel.

Here's the problem:  All of the jobs I am looking for have the following requirement, "Bachelor's Degree in engineering, science, or business required; MBA preferred."     There are several variations on this theme.  Some will specify life sciences or business (pharma companies) and others are less precise and say "technical or business degree required."    THEY ALL SAY MBA preferred.

Ok, so I am looking at senior-level positions, so I don't care that they want an MBA.  I have an MBA because I wanted to climb the corporate ladder a little.   What worries me is that all of the jobs I'm seeing USED to only say bachelor's degree required, and then be fairly relaxed about the field of study.    Now, they suddenly care about technical knowledge.. or at least it seems.  Everyone wants the STEM undergrad or business.    (And who the heck would equate business with an engineering degree??  Can someone explain that because I have a biz degree and it sure isn't engineering!)

I'm also getting lots of email updates with jobs and many of them are entry to mid-level and they're still asking for the same thing.  I personally believe that the corporate recruiters might be overzealous.  I've done these jobs.  You sure don't need a technical degree.      I'm just concerned that there might be a trend that could hurt liberal arts majors.   


Has anyone seen this?    I'm in sales that aren't particularly technical - and any industry terminology can be trained.    So to me it seems totally uncalled for, but I've looked at several hundred jobs over the past month and a half.  It seems to be a reality in my profession.     Thoughts?

[Ideas]

Yes. I think they become more picky over time, because they can. And I think it's because they see some patterns.

They might notice that 67% of their top sales people had a STEM degree versus a non-STEM degree. And so they hire more. And after a few years, now 90% of their top sales people have a STEM degree, partly since they don't have as many non-STEM employees anymore. So eventually they would say, let's stop taking applicants without the STEM degree Because they get so many applicants, they can do this, and still have plenty to choose from.

Even if the job doesn't need STEM knowledge, they would probably see that those candidates on average have certain traits or skills... or assume they do.

I do think this hurts many older people... and the young ones who didn't know that STEM/Business are so big

Or companies had some isolated bad experiences where some salesperson couldn't learn their new software quickly.

I think that many companies would sometimes make exceptions for someone with many years' experience.

[burbuja0512]

Yes. I think they become more picky over time, because they can. And I think it's because they see some patterns.

They might notice that 67% of their top sales people had a STEM degree versus a non-STEM degree. And so they hire more. And after a few years, now 90% of their top sales people have a STEM degree, partly since they don't have as many non-STEM employees anymore. So eventually they would say, let's stop taking applicants without the STEM degree Because they get so many applicants, they can do this, and still have plenty to choose from.

Even if the job doesn't need STEM knowledge, they would probably see that those candidates on average have certain traits or skills... or assume they do.

I do think this hurts many older people... and the young ones who didn't know that STEM/Business are so big

Or companies had some isolated bad experiences where some salesperson couldn't learn their new software quickly.

I think that many companies would sometimes make exceptions for someone with many years' experience.

I agree... I also think that recruiter egos play a big part.  When I managed a sales team with 10-15 people at a very large company, the recruiters would only send me high-level resumes for open positions.   I wanted entry-level or mid-level sales people and they were sending me candidates fit for management.    No matter how many times I threw a temper tantrum, it didn't change the situation.   I don't know if they were rewarded for sending me these amazing candidates or if they didn't realize that they were sending me people who would quit if they weren't promoted within 4-6 months.    Somehow, the recruiters just thought that the better the candidate, the better the recruiter.


But one message that I do want to state on this thread.   For a younger person - or anyone - that doesn't exactly match the degree requirement or the job requirement in general, YOU CAN STILL APPLY!    No one is an exact match and some of those job descriptions might not even have been completed by the hiring manager.    But, I still don't love the way that they're asking for unnecessary STEM degrees  

[Ideas]

Everyone wants the STEM undergrad or business.    (And who the heck would equate business with an engineering degree??  Can someone explain that because I have a biz degree and it sure isn't engineering!)

Also about this question of yours. I think it's because they find some of the same traits in the business majors. At least business has 2 accounting classes, 2 econ classes, typically a business law class, typically harder/more math than the Liberal Arts degrees, a finance class. It definitely isn't engineering, but be glad they're ok with business majors/degrees!

[Johann]

I've observed synergy with combined business and engineering knowledge. I didn't get to University till I was 50 (retired then - 75 now) and I didn't take anything remotely like engineering, but I did take quite a few business courses. I noticed the best business instructors - at least three of them - had all been working engineers who had also earned business degrees and migrated into teaching business courses.

I have a hypothesis that both engineering and business require a similar ability to determine quickly how something works - and how to improve or change the working if necessary. Perhaps, devising or changing a business process or strategy requires similar abilities and thought processes to those needed to initiate or tweak an industrial process. Just a theory...

Also - I've seen at least two people earn an engineering degree followed by a business degree (one MBA) and do extremely well career-wise. One in a large engineering company and one in the field of finance.

[Ideas]

I don't know if they were rewarded for sending me these amazing candidates or if they didn't realize that they were sending me people who would quit if they weren't promoted within 4-6 months.

I think because they'd earn more if you hired the high-end person. And they don't mind that the person quits soon, because then you need the recruiter again?

I see "overkill" requirements in other fields too. I have to hope that my resume would still get looked at by real eyeballs. (Not counting recruiters' eyeballs.)

Sometimes I wonder if they put stricter requirements, knowing that most people will apply anyway, if they have lower credentials but feel they are suited for the job.

[burbuja0512]

I don't know if they were rewarded for sending me these amazing candidates or if they didn't realize that they were sending me people who would quit if they weren't promoted within 4-6 months.

I think because they'd earn more if you hired the high-end person. And they don't mind that the person quits soon, because then you need the recruiter again?

I see "overkill" requirements in other fields too. I have to hope that my resume would still get looked at by real eyeballs. (Not counting recruiters' eyeballs.)

Sometimes I wonder if they put stricter requirements, knowing that most people will apply anyway, if they have lower credentials but feel they are suited for the job.

Interestingly the "overkill" requirements really cut down on female applicants.   I've read about it on several occasions.  The average man will apply for the job that matches his potential, while the average female will only apply if she actually has experience in a good majority of what's being requested.

I've struggled for years to be a good mentor and encourage more women in B2B sales (especially international) and these sort of things make life so difficult.   

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I've observed synergy with combined business and engineering knowledge. I didn't get to University till I was 50 (retired then - 75 now) and I didn't take anything remotely like engineering, but I did take quite a few business courses. I noticed the best business instructors - at least three of them - had all been working engineers who had also earned business degrees and migrated into teaching business courses.

I have a hypothesis that both engineering and business require a similar ability to determine quickly how something works - and how to improve or change the working if necessary. Perhaps, devising or changing a business process or strategy requires similar abilities and thought processes to those needed to initiate or tweak an industrial process.  Just a theory...

Also - I've seen at least two people earn an engineering degree followed by a business degree (one MBA) and do extremely well career-wise. One in a large engineering company and one in the field of finance.

I would agree with you regarding the "how things work" aspect of business degree.  I hadn't thought of it like that, but it's a very valid point.    

I still don't think my degree compares to an engineering degree, but what do I know?  I've never studied engineering.

[Ideas]

Interestingly the "overkill" requirements really cut down on female applicants.   I've read about it on several occasions.  The average man will apply for the job that matches his potential, while the average female will only apply if she actually has experience in a good majority of what's being requested.

That's too bad. This needs to be more widely known, because the gender gap is still big

[dfrecore]

That's too bad. This needs to be more widely known, because the gender gap is still big

Actually, it isn't.  It's only big if you look at ALL women vs ALL men working.  It is minuscule if you compare apples to apples - people in the same jobs for instance.  Or people working the exact same number of hours (women tend to work fewer hours than men in general - average woman only works 36 hrs/week, average man works 41).  Twice as many women than men work part-time.  There are still 25% of all women who choose not to work at all (I'm one of them).

When you actually compare apples to apples, almost the entire difference can be attributed to men negotiating for higher pay than women do.

[DavidHume]

That's too bad. This needs to be more widely known, because the gender gap is still big

Actually, it isn't.  It's only big if you look at ALL women vs ALL men working.  It is minuscule if you compare apples to apples - people in the same jobs for instance.  Or people working the exact same number of hours (women tend to work fewer hours than men in general - average woman only works 36 hrs/week, average man works 41).  Twice as many women than men work part-time.  There are still 25% of all women who choose not to work at all (I'm one of them).

When you actually compare apples to apples, almost the entire difference can be attributed to men negotiating for higher pay than women do.

While you are correct on the apples to apples for gender pay gap, there's a difference between the gender gap and the gender pay gap. The gender gap is just that there are fields where women are underrepresented.