University of Pennsylvania is offering a fully online undergraduate degree program.

[Alpha]

This existed since years ago.
However, their tuition fee is NOT cheap! Thy charge $1200 per credit. So even if you manage to transfer 90 credits, you'll be charged at least $36,000+ for a liberal arts degree.
If you fail to transfer the 90 credits, the price will be abnormally high.
It costs $144,000 for the full 120 credits. I don't think many people will be able to pay that much price for an online degree.

If someone gave you $144K on the condition that you use it solely for your higher education I think that most people would spend it elsewhere.  I think that you could get a pretty good degree for a quarter of that amount.

[nomaduser]

This existed since years ago.
However, their tuition fee is NOT cheap! Thy charge $1200 per credit. So even if you manage to transfer 90 credits, you'll be charged at least $36,000+ for a liberal arts degree.
If you fail to transfer the 90 credits, the price will be abnormally high.
It costs $144,000 for the full 120 credits. I don't think many people will be able to pay that much price for an online degree.

If someone gave you $144K on the condition that you use it solely for your higher education I think that most people would spend it elsewhere.  I think that you could get a pretty good degree for a quarter of that amount.

That's what I'm talking about. You can test out of UExcel, CLEP and finish your degree at one of the top 200 universities in two years. I would go to that route rather than getting an online degree.

[innen_oda]

I'm not talking about the Harvards of the world.

. . . you do know which thread you're in, correct?

[ss20ts]

This existed since years ago.
However, their tuition fee is NOT cheap! Thy charge $1200 per credit. So even if you manage to transfer 90 credits, you'll be charged at least $36,000+ for a liberal arts degree.
If you fail to transfer the 90 credits, the price will be abnormally high.
It costs $144,000 for the full 120 credits. I don't think many people will be able to pay that much price for an online degree.

If someone gave you $144K on the condition that you use it solely for your higher education I think that most people would spend it elsewhere.  I think that you could get a pretty good degree for a quarter of that amount.

I'd go to Cornell in a heartbeat. Penn State is also Ivy League, but there's just something about Cornell. Heck if $144K covered Harvard and I could get in, why not? 

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I'm not talking about the Harvards of the world.

. . . you do know which thread you're in, correct?

Yes I do. I was speaking about endowments in general. There's far more to higher education than the 8 Ivy League schools. Pretty much every private school has an endowment.

[MNomadic]

Alpha
nomaduser

That's what I'm talking about. You can test out of UExcel, CLEP and finish your degree at one of the top 200 universities in two years. I would go to that route rather than getting an online degree.

Yeah, ACE is a low-end credit... you can obtain ACE credits from all kinds of online websites that are not educational institutions so I really doubt any of top 400 universities in US will ever accept ACE credits for transfer. That will damage their reputation.

You know CLEP is ACE, right?

Also, you know many top 200 unis have online degrees, right?

[jch]

I gotta throw in my unsolicited two cents here. I have taken the Arizona State University versions of Eng Comp I and II, Intro to Communication, Western Civ, and Macroeconomics, and Intro to Sociology. I have also taken the StraighterLine versions of the same classes. The SL versions were far more academically rigorous and demanding than the actual university versions.
In general, I've found the quality and rigor of ACE classes varies from class to class and provider to provider, but I never encountered anything in actual, regionally accredited brick and mortar Universities with online components that made me feel they were significantly superior to ACE classes. I used to assume ACE stuff was likely "not as good," but having since taken classes through six different universities, that's just not been the case.
In my personal experience and opinion, ACE classes are for the most part on par with University classes. The main difference is you don't have a professor to badger with emails at 2am trying to ask questions that are answered in the syllabus.

I have taken nearly all of the Sophia courses, and am currently working my way through the ASU EA library. Generally, I'd say that ASU EA is significantly more rigorous than Sophia. I often completed one or more entire Sophia courses in a single day. All of that information left my brain almost as soon as it entered. Sophia was really more of a challenge for my multiple choice testing and text skimming skills than actual content understanding. While I am grateful for the kickstart it provided to my college experience, I don't think that I will actually end up using very many of my Sophia credits.
In some topics relevant to my degree, I feel that Sophia did not provide me with anywhere near the level of understanding that I should possess. That's why I'm taking economics at ASU EA right now. I am actually learning something through their content. Additionally, I have realized that a transcript full of pass/fail alt credit won't be favorable for future graduate school admissions. I don't want to paint myself into an educational corner, so I'm shooting for at least 60 graded RA credits.

Then, I have my Strayer classes. There's very minimal value that they're delivering. I could have just independently bought the textbooks and exercise platforms that they use and worked through them myself. The only thing the professors did was grade discussions and some written assignments, along with holding office hours. That wouldn't be worth anything near their normal $1500/class price tag. The academic rigor and effort level of those classes was about on par with Sophia, far below ASU EA.

Overall, I'd say that the quality and rigor of educational providers varies drastically across the board. There are some ACE credits that are comically easy, and some that are excruciatingly difficult. For example, the two Microsoft MTA fundamentals certs I hold were some of the easiest exams I've ever taken. Anyone who is a proficient English reader and has used computers likely could have passed those, even without studying networking or security. Meanwhile, there are other things that are much more intense. Actual colleges are the same way, with the workload often not corresponding well to the amount and level of credits earned. At ASU EA, I only spent maybe an hour or two a week on the 3 credit computer applications class. Meanwhile, the 2-credit 16 week intro to engineering course was sucking up to 8 hours per week until I gave up. That's an order of magnitude difference in time invested.

In my opinion, the individual source of a credit matters more than the type. Within both the alt-credit and University categories, there are providers who teach it well and some who don't.

[khwaja1924]

I can't believe so many 4-year institutions get away with charging $20K-45K per year for the "experience" of college - dorm life, cafeteria food, parties, etc. These 18 year-olds don't understand debt and end up with a mortgage over their head while having a Bachelor's degree in a field that has no prospects. These tactics should fall under the term of "predatory lending".

It is high time for Community Colleges to become free and the remaining 2 years be capped at no more than $10K, all in (books, dorms, food, etc.). If the college can't meet its expenses with these numbers, they need to shut down.

ACE, CLEP and other alternate credits are the future of this industry. Google, Amazon and other technical certifications are making these alternate education models more acceptable. It is time for the old model to whither away. It just isn't working anymore.

[PrettyFlyforaChiGuy]

It's really refreshing to see some Cornell love, since it's so often treated as the red-headed stepchild of the bunch. And by the way, UPenn is the Ivy out of the two.

[ss20ts]

It's really refreshing to see some Cornell love, since it's so often treated as the red-headed stepchild of the bunch. And by the way, UPenn is the Ivy out of the two.

Cornell IS Ivy. It's the only one created in the 1800's. The others are from the 16 & 17 hundreds. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League

https://ivyleague.com/sports/2017/8/13/H...73057.aspx 

[PrettyFlyforaChiGuy]

ACE, CLEP and other alternate credits are the future of this industry. Google, Amazon and other technical certifications are making these alternate education models more acceptable. It is time for the old model to whither away. It just isn't working anymore.

I agree to an extent, but to play Devil's advocate, the overall trend for admissions this year is that applications at top-tier universities absolutely soared compared to 2020. This seems to have been driven mainly by their decisions to not require standardized testing, but there are also more international applicants, since after 4 years of student visas being cut nearly in half, this group as a whole is more eager to return to the USA now. And because they typically must pay their full ride anyway, they're only targeting these top programs.

I know it's not at all the case for every single uni out there, but it's the state-level and below programs that appear to be bracing to wither on the vine, as applications to many in this group have dropped significantly. I suspect that rolling and open admissions policies will at least help them to pull in more students in the upcoming months after other admissions decisions have been released, but then they'll face the typical summer melt anyway.

Alternative credits may be a great sales point for these colleges to help them adapt, and also offer a key competitive edge within the overwhelming majority of college-bound students who are consistently taught to be obsessed with rank and prestige. By itself though, I don't think they're enough to drive change. Even competency-based education hasn't really taken off beyond niche programs within already-niche online unis, and it's possibly one of the most meritocratic learning models out there. A damn shame that public college isn't yet public-funded in the USA, or maybe the emphasis within the higher ed sphere wouldn't be so top-heavy.

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It's really refreshing to see some Cornell love, since it's so often treated as the red-headed stepchild of the bunch. And by the way, UPenn is the Ivy out of the two.

Cornell IS Ivy. It's the only one created in the 1800's. The others are from the 16 & 17 hundreds. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivy_League

https://ivyleague.com/sports/2017/8/13/H...73057.aspx 

Sorry, I meant that in your previous post, UPenn is the Ivy, not Penn State. I've actually helped students succeed in their applications to all three of these schools, but I've just noticed over time here that Cornell is often thought of as a "lesser Ivy." It's kind of absurd to try to divvy up even the tip of the top programs like this, and makes seeing some love for the school all the better.