Penn Foster Non-ACE class - Did I get screwed?

[dcan]

When you state this "Penn Foster is regionally accredited, but only for non-degree-granting education." You are implying for the highschool programs right? Because Penn Foster College is nationally accredited, and it's highschool program is RA. By the way nice job in the Wiki page of Degree forum. You might as well create an ebook on how to earn your bachelors degree for under $10,000 and I bet you'll sale, lol.

Heh, I actually described it that way one time, the ebook for testing out of your degree.

Yes I meant that PF is not accredited to grant academic degrees but can provide "some" courses for transfer, assuming ACE recommendations as discussed in this thread. What I'm really getting at with PF is the implication for Big 3 transferability. If you look at the accreditation page on the wiki it discusses RA vs NA and also talks briefly about specialized accreditations like for biz schools etc, but at the very top it says "look, for our purposes just stick with RA and avoid all the hassles." The whole wiki is focused specifically on the needs of people using this forum to get through the Big 3. So while there is certainly more to PF accreditation, for our purposes here the issue is transferability.

[BrandeX]

Yes I meant that PF is not accredited to grant academic degrees

PF is accredited to grant academic degrees. :coolgleam:

[PennFoster]

Hello jam123, I am a social media manager at Penn Foster. I noticed your thread and contacted the Education Dept. Here is the feedback I was given.


ACE accreditation for Penn Foster courses can be looked up on the ACE website:
ACE CREDIT | The National Guide to College Credit for Workforce Training

[B]Here is the record for the course in question, VISUAL C#, showing that ACE accreditation lasted from 4/1/99 through 2/28/11.

Visual C# (CSC 246)
(Formerly: Visual C++)
Credit Type: Course
ACE Course Number: 0165
Organization: Penn Foster College
Location: Self-study.
Length: Correspondence program.
Dates Offered: 4/1/1999 - 2/28/2011
Objective: To provide the student with the fundamental knowledge to develop computer programs using the Visual C++ programming language.
Learning Outcome: Upon completion of this course, the student will be able to describe the structure of a Visual C++ program; design and code programs in Visual C++; work with graphics and multimedia; and learn how to distribute programs created in Visual C++.
Instruction: Major topics covered in the course are building C++ applications, input devices, using timers, dialog boxes and menus, adding graphics, active X controls, document interfacing, toolbars, status bars, ADO applications, DLL, and multitasking. Methods of instruction include self-study texts, use of computer software, graded student exercises, and a proctored final examination.
Credit Recommendation: In the lower division baccalaureate/associate degree category, 3 semester hours in Computer Science or Information Technology (12/00)


We are sympathetic with the student because ACE gave us different answers every time we asked them about how the timing would play out when a course lost its accreditation, and how it would affect students taking the course. ACE representatives originally told us this spring that if the course was accredited when the student enrolled, that student would then get the ACE approval, no matter when they finished. This is what they traditionally had done. So this is what we told the students.

A couple months later (May 2011) ACE discontinued approval on a handful of courses, and backdated their withdrawal of approval to February. Then they told us the students would henceforth not be approved unless they completed the course BEFORE the accreditation ended.

This took us, as well as our students, by surprise. There were many who were caught in the gap. We went to bat for the students, requesting several times that ACE modify its end date to allow for students who were nearly done when accreditation ended. This they would not do (I believe it is because they cannot or will not modify the automatic program that approves applicants by date, and will not make manual exceptions.) The only concession ACE made was to move the end date for a couple of the more popular courses to May 31, 2011 (the date when they finished their review and informed us that approval was withdrawn).

The student can always send a Penn Foster transcript to the school. It is not always necessary to have the ACE transcript.

I can see that the student took this course in October 2011, well after ACE credit was rescinded. I do not know who would have told him at that time that it was still ACE approved. It may be that he was told this at the start of a semester, long before he actually took this course, and at that time it would still have been approved. (Or it may be that we were still attempting to meet their conditions for approval at the time; if met, approval would have been backdated to eliminate the gap in approvals.) Without the student’s id number, or even real name, I am unable to look up his record to see how that transpired.

Q: Are we no longer ACE approved for this course?
A: NO LONGER APPROVED
Q:Will it show as ACE approved for the student when he transfers since it was when he enrolled?
A: IT WAS ALREADY UN-APPROVED WHEN HE ENROLLED.
Q:Are we still under review for approval or is it final? FINAL.
A: ACE APPROVAL IS DROPPED.

We truly apologize for your troubles. It was never the schools intent to mislead students nor did we expect to lose our ACE approval for this course. Should any of you have questions regarding our programs I encourage you to join the eCampus student community at Home - The Penn Foster Student Community where admins & instructors are available to answer your questions.


Best regards,

eCampus Community Admin Erin

[dcan]

PF is accredited to grant academic degrees. :coolgleam:

By "academic" I meant RA. NA is generally viewed as technical/vocational, not academic. PF may be NA approved to grant degrees, but since they aren't RA approved I don't consider them to be "academic".

That said, if there is a better way to word it -- that will not unduly confuse someone trying to get through the Big 3 -- then I think we should consider updating the wiki entry to reflect that.

[skyfall123]

Hi Erin,

Please don't come on here and blame ACE for anything. You're way out of your league coming on and writing such drivel here. The only misinformation coming out about ACE is from PF and their employees. I say this having personally spoken with both ACE and PF executive management.

Your own Penn Foster eCampus rep wrote on 9/2/2010 Penn Foster and ACE reviews - Ask an Enrollment Advisor Forum - Help - The Penn Foster Student Community

Augusto, All of our previously ACE approved courses are being renewed. We actually got the confirmation today.

Best regards,

Your eCampus Admin

Now Erin if you are a true professional and you really want to do what you are implying (going to bat for the students) then why don't you refund jam123 the $300 it cost him for the course that your rep said was going to be "renewed". Instead of the blame game, here is a real live situation where you can either put your money where your mouth is and refund his $300 or you can do nothing. What will it be PennFoster?

[Ace_King]

Hi Geezer! Love what you wrote. My friend Augusto previously started that thread on the ecampus website, so if we need a witness I can get him here to speak his mind. Anywho, Penn Foster you should pay the person back. Penn foster has a reputation of lying to students. They take advantage of them. Not to put Straighterline in this, but Straighterline has very good customer service and I never had an issue with a transcript or ACE transcript. All I'm saying is Straighterline is coming up, be carefull Penn Foster.

[alleycat]

Hi Geezer! Love what you wrote. My friend Augusto previously started that thread on the ecampus website, so if we need a witness I can get him here to speak his mind. Anywho, Penn Foster you should pay the person back. Penn foster has a reputation of lying to students. They take advantage of them. Not to put Straighterline in this, but Straighterline has very good customer service and I never had an issue with a transcript or ACE transcript. All I'm saying is Straighterline is coming up, be carefull Penn Foster.

ACEKING you are right about Geezer Geezer does carry a big stick somedays but he is just sticking up for the little guy that is getting screwed over. Question is how does a student get a refund when they have been mislead into thinking they would get ACE approved credits for the course they just took?

[marianne202]

Unless the OP can prove in writing that an employee mislead him, they will probably not get very far. He would have to have the full name of the person who misquoted the ACE approval then he would have to take that to the State Dept of Education or the State Attorneys General. The problem is that Penn Foster is a for-profit school which means they don't play by the same rules as State run colleges, that is why their course accreditation isn't always guaranteed. Current and prospective students need to be asking why ACE removed accreditation for so many classes. This is a red flag that PF isn't providing quality, rigorous course content that is comparable to State schools. I wish the OP the best of luck in resolving this issue, but I don't see PF giving back the money.

[dcan]

I just updated the DF wiki entry on Penn Foster with marianne202's quote above since I think it needs to be seen by anyone looking to use PF for credits. I added this as well:

Bottom Line: Penn Foster can potentially be useful in gaining some credits towards Big 3 degrees, but exercise an abundance of caution, get everything in writing, do your homework, and always look for alternatives outside of Penn Foster. There are lots of other distance learning schools offering comparable courses with fewer hassles.

Hopefully that will ensure this issue is not just buried in a thread in the forum one day. If PF is getting lousy they need to be called on it and hit directly in the bottom line.

I'm thinking a $300 refund is cheap compared to the damage they themselves are doing to their brand. This forum was a pretty rabid supporter of them. They are alienating the very people who give them word-of-mouth referrals.