Traditional College Flack

[Ruddigore]

This may seem trivial, but it bothers me how close-minded people seem to be concerning exploring any post-secondary option other than a brick-and-mortar college. When I tell people of my plans, I even preface my shocking revelation with "I will go to a graduate school regardless."

They say things like this:

"That's where you meet most of your life-long friends."

"That's where you'll probably meet your future spouse."

"Something must be said for being in a classroom and having a professor share his (or her) knowledge with you."

"The college experience is something that will shape your life." (That's not the only thing it will shape if college lore has any veracity. )

What's the big deal?

[Mamasaphire]

I know, it is frusterating!

That being said, I did meet my dh at college (many years ago). Otoh, many people I know who are happily married did not meet at a school.

Maybe if you tell them you'll be taking a few courses at a B&M they will feel better?!

[alleycat]

I really do not understand this closed minded thinking about education. This is 2008 and there are many options for all of us. High school, college, grad school you name it we have soooo many choices to make a difference in our own lives on our own terms. Honestly I don't even discuse plans with people that just don't get it. It takes alot of energy to sell these people on the fact there are many legit programs out there and anyone with any sort of driver and determination can be successful. The world is our oyster so go find your pearl. I just want to say that I am grateful that there are so many options for myself and my family to achieve anything that we want.

[PeteDude]

. . .
"Something must be said for being in a classroom and having a professor share his (or her) knowledge with you."

"The college experience is something that will shape your life." (That's not the only thing it will shape if college lore has any veracity. )

. .

Those sorts of comments used to bother me, but now I understand-- they have a place in their proper context.

If you're young, have resources such as family money or student loans to work off of and few time constraints, B&M college is still probably the most ideal option. However, most folks looking at the accelerated distance learning option don't fall under those categories and are better off working the DL routes.

There's something to be said for listening to a college professor share insights about a subject that aren't picked up on a textbook, or listed as an answer choice on a CLEP. But then, you also find those profs who drone on endlessly and put half their class to sleep-- a fate worse than death if you work and attend night classes!

As to college shaping their lives-- I daresay you can't find one person on this board whose life hasn't been changed by the pursuit of their study plans. I may not have listened to the same professor dronings, but I learned an immense amount from my studies for the Dantes World Religion and CLEP economics exams. There is nothing any anti-DL rhetoric can do to take those experiences (among others) from me.

[OnMyWay]

Well, you are young and there is much to gain by having a "regular" college experience. I've learned some great life lessons at college and met my spouse ... with that said it's your life and you'll make your own way. Don't sweat the small stuff.

[cookderosa]

This may seem trivial, but it bothers me how close-minded people seem to be concerning exploring any post-secondary option other than a brick-and-mortar college. When I tell people of my plans, I even preface my shocking revelation with "I will go to a graduate school regardless."

They say things like this:

"That's where you meet most of your life-long friends."

"That's where you'll probably meet your future spouse."

"Something must be said for being in a classroom and having a professor share his (or her) knowledge with you."

"The college experience is something that will shape your life." (That's not the only thing it will shape if college lore has any veracity. )

What's the big deal?

>>

When I started homeschooling 14 years ago, I found that people (to my shock) might be against what I was about to do for my child(ren).

Like you have discovered, not everyone will be supportive. While homeschooling children is different than seeking a college degree, I have found a zillion similarities between the two. For the most part, you are getting words that say one thing, but that mean something else all together! So, for fun, here is my translation guide (It's PG-13)

"That's where you meet most of your life-long friends."
means:
I had a blast at my college, it was fun. What your doing doesn't sound fun- if you take "social" out of college, all you have left is learning, and who wants to do that?? Dude, the parties were the only good thing about college!

"That's where you'll probably meet your future spouse."
means:
I had sex with a different girl every weekend! It was great! After a few years of that, I was able to get that out of my system and finally had to grow up and get a wife, so I knew which ones had character (those who hadn't said yes to me and my friends and their friends and their friends) and it helped me narrow down my list. (Full disclosure: I met my husband in college)

"Something [I]must be said for being in a classroom and having a professor share his (or her) knowledge with you." [/I]
means:
I wasted all that time sitting there for nothing!? DON'T EVEN tell me that I could have skipped all that? How can that be?

Or it could mean:

If I have to sit there, so should you!

"The college experience is something that will shape your life."
means:
the college experience is something that will shape your life As will graduate school, your jobs, your hobbies, your family, your friends, getting married, having children, etc.

It's worth pointing out that 50% of people who take their first class will NEVER EVER finish their bachelor's degree. Ever. What your doing is good.
You are not cheating, these programs EXIST, you didn't create them. You are using a program that is there for ANYONE to use. (including the nay-sayers) You are doing what a lot of people fail to do. A lot of those people who fail to do it, were having the "experience" but it got in the way. Could we argue that the traditional format of BM butt-in-seat learning has a terrible success rate? Let's be glad that the airlines don't crash 50% of the time, or that doctors don't have patients die in surgery 50% of the time! But, arguing about the effectiveness of the "golden experience of college" is for another day.

What your doing IS ALSO shaping something inside you that a lot of other people never develop. What have you learned about resourcefulness? What have you learned about efficiency? What have you learned about discipline? Rather than say what "I" think you are learning, you can probably think of your own list.

Finally, my personal philosophy is: don't evangelize don't deny. If I know someone may benefit from testing, I mention how it helped me earn my degree. College graduates don't care- they're already done. You may find 1 person is interested and wants to know everything they can. Help that person, and smile at the rest. They have to find their own path.

[barcotta]

They say things like this:

"That's where you meet most of your life-long friends."

"That's where you'll probably meet your future spouse."

"Something must be said for being in a classroom and having a professor share his (or her) knowledge with you."

"The college experience is something that will shape your life." (That's not the only thing it will shape if college lore has any veracity. )

What's the big deal?

I would say that is all pretty accurate--and I've certainly heard a lot of comments which were far more dismissive and demeaning than those. My favorite reaction to my distance learning degree process wasn't even in words:

Setting:

My daughter's friend was visiting our home and her father arrived to pick her up. Let's call him "Bob."

Bob: Hey, what's going on?
Me: Oh, I'm just studying. I'm trying to finish up my degree.
Bob: That's great! (stepping forward--clearly interested) What school are you going to?
Me: Excelsior College. It's a program mostly for adults based in NY.
Bob: Nice. (all of a sudden, it looks like someone's calling him for dinner). OK Sally, we gotta go. (as he starts backing out the door).

Bob, of course, was a graduate of very noteworthy California universities and has a graduate degree. Without saying anything, he made it clear how much HE values anything less than attending a noteworthy CA university.

I went to community college for a couple of semesters right out of high school and, guess what? That's where I met my wife. So...maybe you will be single forever if you don't go to college--but you don't necessarily have to go all the way through!

There's a lot of great feedback in this thread. I would add one more reason to attend a traditional college, if at all possible, particularly directly out of high school.

Commonality of Experience

In addition to my lack of golf skills, the one thing that separates me most from my work colleagues is the college experience. College serves as a common reference point for many adults. They frequently refer back to their college experiences for a whole myriad of reasons--and I'm not just talking about the people who are stuck in the past. In professional America today, it's more like a right of passage and, I have to tell you, if I had seen the small, but beautiful, college campus at which I took all my CLEPS back when I was college age--I would have LOVED to attend there. But, I didn't know much about college campuses, etc. and just went to my local community college and, like many, didn't finish.

Just think, if you pursue a liberal arts degree, you can set yourself up to be in a place where you study stuff that you have at least some interest in, they have facilities to exercise, all sorts of clubs, sports on the weekends--and you're SURROUNDED by people who are all around your age and doing the same thing you are! Believe me--that sounds awfully good in retrospect.

So--go if you can, but if you can't because of money, distance, lack of motivation, you don't like being around people, etc. and you otherwise wouldn't get a degree at all--DEFINITELY get an accredited degree any way you can.

[Ruddigore]

Thank you everyone! All of this is reassuring. If anyone has anything else to add about B&M college in this context, please post it: I'd be glad to hear what you have to say!

I wonder if people will change their minds about my method when I graduate from "college" one or two years after I get out of highschool? hilarious

[cannoda]

Thank you everyone! All of this is reassuring. If anyone has anything else to add about B&M college in this context, please post it: I'd be glad to hear what you have to say!

I wonder if people will change their minds about my method when I graduate from "college" one or two years after I get out of highschool? hilarious

Ruddi -

Many people would reserve judgement until they saw what you were able to do with your degree.

For a traditional college-age student, college isn't just about mastering the curriculum. There IS something to the notion that "the college experience will shape your life." I often tell high school students that they will learn more in their dorm than they will in their classes in their freshman year. For a traditional student, college is a place to develop their independence from parents and to make mistakes in a far more forgiving environment than the real world.

There is also an advantage to entering professional life with a few more years of "life experience" under your belt. I have had students that graduated from my B&M school and entered graduate school at the age of 20. However, graduate degree in hand at 22 - there was a distinct difference in their social and communications skills relative to their older, similarly credentialed peers. They were at a distinct disavantage in the job market.

Many employers will have reservations about the rigor of dl degrees. In my opinion, a job candidate presenting a dl degree who is only one or two years out of high school would experience great difficulty in the job market. Your accomplishment at such a young age is more likely to reinforce their reservations about distance learning instead of reflecting favorably on your academic ability and motivation.

I do not view distance learning as inherently inferior to b&m learning - my undergraduate degree is from USNY/Regents/Excelsior back when dl implied US Mail. However, I was significantly older than you when I pursued completing my degree through exams and correspondence courses. I had significant work and life experience as well as experiencing campus life as a freshman while in my teens.

If you are constrained such that a dl degree is your only option - go for it. You WILL be better off than not having a degree at all. But in my opinion, a B&M degree is a better choice for a traditional college age student.

[Farmerboy]

If you are constrained such that a dl degree is your only option - go for it. You WILL be better off than not having a degree at all. But in my opinion, a B&M degree is a better choice for a traditional college age student.

I have been really enjoying this thread as other people answer the same questions that I have had to answer time and time and time again! However, the above statement really caught my eye. In my opinion the average traditional college aged student would be much better off getting their degree through distance learning. As is the case with Ruddigore, myself, and many others we will finish our bachelors two, three, or maybe even five years earlier than our counterparts in B&M.

However, the complete disaster of our college education system at the undergraduate level and the sheer number of people acquiring degrees pulls all of us down. An undergraduate degree is viewed today by most employers the same way a high school diploma was viewed 30 years ago and the wage bump is about the same. On the job experience is becoming more and more important as college graduates enter the workplace with little or no practical knowledge.

Now consider Rudd's situation. He will hopefully finish his degree by the time he is 20. At that time a good student would only be halfway through college. Rudd now has many options in front of him not available to his peers. He could further his education by getting a masters or could gain real life experience by interning or finding a job in a field that interests him. Either way, when his peers would be graduating from college with their undergraduates, Ruddigore has either a master’s degree or an equivalent undergraduate degree with 2 years of work experience in his field. I think that we would all agree that whichever route Rudd chooses he will be much better off than his peers who went to a B&M college. In my situation I am about five years ahead of my peers so when they graduate from a B&M school I could feasibly have my masters from Harvard and have 3 years of work experience! I haven’t even touched the $$$ concern or the quality of the education itself but for me the time savings alone justifies earning my undergraduate through DL.


Just my two cents in 359 words!