The most Military/Veteran friendly College Commencements!

[dfrecore]

At the State level - maybe, but when I worked for the San Diego Police Department, we were the lowest starting pay of agency in the county (and there were about seventeen of them!) at $58,000 gross; coupled with the California's current median home price ($545,000), quality of life wasn't what you might think.

 While I generally agree with cutting some of the ridiculous pensions out there, law enforcement is one I would never cut considering the emotional and physical price we pay and danger we face.

The problem is, we have people work 30 years (I think 20 for law enforcement) and then get paid a huge % of their salary for the rest of their life.  I know of a job where someone has come in and started working, and is 5 years from retirement.  At the current time, there are THREE other people who held that job that are getting retirement at the present.  So we are paying FOUR people for working ONE job (3 at 80% of what they made).  After a very short amount of time, you are paying more in pensions than you are paying current salaries.  That is unsustainable, no matter what the job is or if you faced danger or whatever.  The upside down pyramid just keeps growing at the top.  So you may think that law enforcement SHOULD get those great pensions, but when the state goes bankrupt, believe me, it won't matter what anyone thought.  Math still matters, you can't get away from it.  And BTW, most of the largest pensions in the state goes to public safety - so there may be a city here and there who doesn't pay as well as others, but for the most part they are the most well-paid positions in the state.

The average public pension in CA is now $68k PLUS medical and other benefits.  There are currently 21k people earning more than $100k a year in pensions.  And there are currently 220k employees making more than $100k a year, which means all of them will earn close to $100k in pensions when they retire.  

Unfunded pensions is currently at ONE TRILLION dollars in CA.

[MSK9]

At the State level - maybe, but when I worked for the San Diego Police Department, we were the lowest starting pay of agency in the county (and there were about seventeen of them!) at $58,000 gross; coupled with the California's current median home price ($545,000), quality of life wasn't what you might think.

 While I generally agree with cutting some of the ridiculous pensions out there, law enforcement is one I would never cut considering the emotional and physical price we pay and danger we face.

The problem is, we have people work 30 years (I think 20 for law enforcement) and then get paid a huge % of their salary for the rest of their life.  I know of a job where someone has come in and started working, and is 5 years from retirement.  At the current time, there are THREE other people who held that job that are getting retirement at the present.  So we are paying FOUR people for working ONE job (3 at 80% of what they made).  After a very short amount of time, you are paying more in pensions than you are paying current salaries.  That is unsustainable, no matter what the job is or if you faced danger or whatever.  The upside down pyramid just keeps growing at the top.  So you may think that law enforcement SHOULD get those great pensions, but when the state goes bankrupt, believe me, it won't matter what anyone thought.  Math still matters, you can't get away from it.  And BTW, most of the largest pensions in the state goes to public safety - so there may be a city here and there who doesn't pay as well as others, but for the most part they are the most well-paid positions in the state.

The average public pension in CA is now $68k PLUS medical and other benefits.  There are currently 21k people earning more than $100k a year in pensions.  And there are currently 220k employees making more than $100k a year, which means all of them will earn close to $100k in pensions when they retire.  

Unfunded pensions is currently at ONE TRILLION dollars in CA.

I appreciate your position and you're right, math does matter. My pension was not funded by the state but by San Diego city, paid with contributions from Officers like me with little or no employer matching.

From a financial stand point, I understand your position, but it isn't just about the numbers. There must be an incentive for law enforcers to do the job. Law enforcement is a critical societal function. I think its unreasonable to think that those of us who sign up, do the right thing and retire honorably should receive nothing but a pat on the back when it's time to hang up the badge. I'm less than ten years into my career and already have hip and spine problems. I have scarred lungs from evacuating people from structure fires, I've broken bones and have torn my Achilles tendon, I have a torn meniscus; all for the good of others. My retirement plan DOESN'T include medical, which I would undoubtedly need if I continued on this path. Those who are lucky enough to have it, I'm fine with it, because as far as I'm concerned, they earned it.

There are plenty of other entitlements that could be cut to lighten the load, ones that weren't paid for in blood, sweat and tears.

[sanantone]

White people in California don't call the police on black for no reason? Must be nice. Maybe I need to move.  I never said this - I just said it hadn't happened to me personally.  

It could be one of the ways your state goes broke? It's all about priorities and competent money management. San Antonio pays less than many other large cities in Texas, and definitely less than Cali cities do, and they're still calculating that the city will go broke over pensions. Now, I do think there is a limit to how much public safety workers should get, but these are people who risk their lives daily to protect you. Don't throw so many people in prison if you don't want to pay for it.  I said we are going to go broke from unfunded pension liabilities.  ALL government, not just cops and prison guards.  Part of the problem is overpaying for jobs that you could pay less for, I don't care what you do, it should still be subject to market rates.  We spend TWICE as much as many other states to pay for our prisons.  This is a problem.  It is a problem in all kinds of ways.  I never said we shouldn't pay them a decent wage, and I am very pro-law-enforcement, but they should still be subject to math.

Are you going to avoid every college that used to ban black people from attending? Are you going to avoid every college that has statues of Confederate soldiers and famous slaveholders? I'm sorry, but this safe space stuff irks me. They say it's only a liberal thing, but conservatives seem to be looking for the same types of environments.  I never said any of this.  I WANT free speech.  I DON'T want safe spaces.  But I am not going to spend my hard-earned money on a school where I don't agree with the values they have.  That's lunacy.

Yale had a REAL incident of racism just a few weeks ago, and some want to worry about non-existent issues. MIT has the best AFROTC program in the country. As much as they put into that program, I doubt the school is anti-military. There may be some students who are anti-military, but doesn't that fall under freedom of speech? I have clients who are confirmed gang members in the Aryan Brotherhood, and I can't just avoid them. It's just the way life goes. If the college were truly anti-military, it wouldn't have an ROTC program at all. Trump was fined for discriminating against black employees, and he disrespected veterans multiple times, but you still voted for him.  My son doesn't want to go into the AF, he wants to go into the Marines.  Am I supposed to force him to change his mind because I think MIT has some great program that he doesn't want to go into?  I'm not sure what the point is here.

As for voting for Trump, it wasn't like I had a lot of other choices.  Hillary destroyed the lives of women who her husband raped or had affairs with.  So I guess you're pro that since you didn't vote for Trump?  Of course not.  I'm not a Trump fan, but I hated Hillary more.  How did this even come into the conversation of not wanting to send my kid to a school with safe spaces or that have anti-military stances?  Not sure how this went off the rails, since I respect your views on many things.  Have a good one.

Trump cheated on all three of his wives and inappropriately touched many women. He's threatened to sue his accusers. I don't really see the difference. 

I guess I just grew annoyed by multiple forum posts from people wanting to avoid diversity-type courses and liberal classmates. If I can sit through classes about people who look nothing like me for 13 years without a choice, then it won't kill you to take one diversity course. In the real world, you can't avoid people with different political opinions, and you can't even avoid diversity in most cities these days. Only in a first world nation would you have so many people complaining about having to take a diversity course. They're lucky they even go to go through K-12 without having to pay tuition.

I've also grown tired of people saying that they support the military and law enforcement, but only do so superficially. These are highly stressful, undesirable jobs that are hard to fill. People want others to protect them and do the dirty work, but they don't want to pay for it. Putting a flag on your truck and standing for the national anthem doesn't cure PTSD, and it doesn't pay for the heart disease and other medical problems LE retirees will face due to the nature of their careers. Those who retire after the age of 55 have a very high risk of dying before they even turn 65.

Sorry if I came off rude, but so many people these days only pretend to care about things or don't know what's really needed to support others.

[dfrecore]

Trump cheated on all three of his wives and inappropriately touched many women. He's threatened to sue his accusers. I don't really see the difference. Like I said, I found him the lesser of 2 evils, and you found Hillary the lesser of 2 evils.  I wish we'd had better choices on both sides. 

I guess I just grew annoyed by multiple forum posts from people wanting to avoid diversity-type courses and liberal classmates. If I can sit through classes about people who look nothing like me for 13 years without a choice, then it won't kill you to take one diversity course. In the real world, you can't avoid people with different political opinions, and you can't even avoid diversity in most cities these days.  I don't care about diversity courses (although a teacher who says you can't actually disagree with them is a problem), and liberal classmates is a given.  I just don't want to support a school where they have safe spaces and comfort cats and bubbles, and don't allow free speech - I mean, how are they then going to send these kids out into the real world?  How is this teaching anyone to be able to thrive in life and especially at work?

I've also grown tired of people saying that they support the military and law enforcement, but only do so superficially. These are highly stressful, undesirable jobs that are hard to fill. People want others to protect them and do the dirty work, but they don't want to pay for it. Putting a flag on your truck and standing for the national anthem doesn't cure PTSD, and it doesn't pay for the heart disease and other medical problems LE retirees will face due to the nature of their careers. Those who retire after the age of 55 have a very high risk of dying before they even turn 65.  Just because I think that math is a real thing, doesn't mean I only support LE and the military superficially.  In the area that I live, it's a joke to say that these jobs are hard to fill.  The police forces around here open a window for applications on a certain date, and then close it 45 minutes later because they are inundated with applications.  There is always a waiting list for jobs.  So obviously, they pay better than you think.  It may be different where you live, but it's ridiculous here.  The CHP is #2 on our list of unfunded pension liabilities, because there are so many officers that make well over $100k.  Public safety as a whole is the #1 cost.  I do think most public safety officers here are way overpaid, otherwise there wouldn't be wait-lists, and there wouldn't be so many of them retiring at 55 who then sit back and live very comfortably off of 80%-90% of their pay that they had jacked up the last 3 years of their service to really get a good amount.  Like I said, however you feel about LE/PS, the math cannot sustain itself here.  It is undoable.  Our cities/counties/state are going to go down in flames when all is said and done.  And if CA goes to the federal government and asks for a bailout, how willing are YOU going to be to pay for our lunacy?  Honestly, I don't think you'll be saying "Well, it's LE/PS, so it's totally worth it!"

[alexf.1990]

Trump cheated on all three of his wives and inappropriately touched many women. He's threatened to sue his accusers. I don't really see the difference. 

I guess I just grew annoyed by multiple forum posts from people wanting to avoid diversity-type courses and liberal classmates. If I can sit through classes about people who look nothing like me for 13 years without a choice, then it won't kill you to take one diversity course. In the real world, you can't avoid people with different political opinions, and you can't even avoid diversity in most cities these days. Only in a first world nation would you have so many people complaining about having to take a diversity course. They're lucky they even go to go through K-12 without having to pay tuition.

I've also grown tired of people saying that they support the military and law enforcement, but only do so superficially. These are highly stressful, undesirable jobs that are hard to fill. People want others to protect them and do the dirty work, but they don't want to pay for it. Putting a flag on your truck and standing for the national anthem doesn't cure PTSD, and it doesn't pay for the heart disease and other medical problems LE retirees will face due to the nature of their careers. Those who retire after the age of 55 have a very high risk of dying before they even turn 65.

Sorry if I came off rude, but so many people these days only pretend to care about things or don't know what's really needed to support others.

I don't understand how learning about people who "don't look like you" is comparable to the pseudoscience drivel pushed by the social sciences in universities today. People who didn't look like you did the vast majority of the heavy lifting to develop Western Civilization. It's not unreasonable that an education rooted in Western Civilization consists of learning about those people. There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a diversity course, the problem is that it quickly devolves into the same collectivist, identity politics that have underpinned the worst atrocities of the 20th century.

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that superficial support for the police and military is on par with the openly antagonistic attitude the left has towards them.

[sanantone]

Trump cheated on all three of his wives and inappropriately touched many women. He's threatened to sue his accusers. I don't really see the difference. 

I guess I just grew annoyed by multiple forum posts from people wanting to avoid diversity-type courses and liberal classmates. If I can sit through classes about people who look nothing like me for 13 years without a choice, then it won't kill you to take one diversity course. In the real world, you can't avoid people with different political opinions, and you can't even avoid diversity in most cities these days. Only in a first world nation would you have so many people complaining about having to take a diversity course. They're lucky they even go to go through K-12 without having to pay tuition.

I've also grown tired of people saying that they support the military and law enforcement, but only do so superficially. These are highly stressful, undesirable jobs that are hard to fill. People want others to protect them and do the dirty work, but they don't want to pay for it. Putting a flag on your truck and standing for the national anthem doesn't cure PTSD, and it doesn't pay for the heart disease and other medical problems LE retirees will face due to the nature of their careers. Those who retire after the age of 55 have a very high risk of dying before they even turn 65.

Sorry if I came off rude, but so many people these days only pretend to care about things or don't know what's really needed to support others.

I don't understand how learning about people who "don't look like you" is comparable to the pseudoscience drivel pushed by the social sciences in universities today. People who didn't look like you did the vast majority of the heavy lifting to develop Western Civilization. It's not unreasonable that an education rooted in Western Civilization consists of learning about those people. There's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of a diversity course, the problem is that it quickly devolves into the same collectivist, identity politics that have underpinned the worst atrocities of the 20th century.

This paragraph looks a lot like what I've seen on white supremacist forums. The suggestion is that European civilization is only worthy of studying even though the U.S. is racially diverse and wouldn't be where it is without African slaves. Most of the time, the diversity requirement is to take a humanities course in something that is non-Western Civilization. Humanities is humanities. There's no science behind it; it's just the study of culture. If you can't bother to take one course about all the brown people around you (they will soon outnumber white people in the U.S.), then that's pretty sad. And, the worst atrocity of the 20th century was rooted in extreme nationalism, white supremacy, religious intolerance, no regard for those with disabilities, and homophobia. It was also rooted in racial pseudoscience that was biological in nature, not social science. 

I fundamentally disagree with the idea that superficial support for the police and military is on par with the openly antagonistic attitude the left has towards them.

Cutting pay and benefits has real consequences on police officers more so than someone speaking ill of them. The political groups that law enforcement agencies are most warned about are actually far right wing, anti-government extremists. Left wing extremists were mostly a danger in the 60s and 70s. Recently, one of our officers was locked inside a house by a sovereign citizen. I don't know if you would call them right wing, but they definitely aren't mainstream, left wing, and they're influenced by a Christian Patriot movement. When I took my current job, I wasn't warned about hipsters, pro-choice activists, potheads, and liberal Millennials. I wasn't even warned about Antifa. I was warned about anti-government groups, white supremacists, and sovereign citizens. 

---

Trump cheated on all three of his wives and inappropriately touched many women. He's threatened to sue his accusers. I don't really see the difference. Like I said, I found him the lesser of 2 evils, and you found Hillary the lesser of 2 evils.  I wish we'd had better choices on both sides. 

I guess I just grew annoyed by multiple forum posts from people wanting to avoid diversity-type courses and liberal classmates. If I can sit through classes about people who look nothing like me for 13 years without a choice, then it won't kill you to take one diversity course. In the real world, you can't avoid people with different political opinions, and you can't even avoid diversity in most cities these days.  I don't care about diversity courses (although a teacher who says you can't actually disagree with them is a problem), and liberal classmates is a given.  I just don't want to support a school where they have safe spaces and comfort cats and bubbles, and don't allow free speech - I mean, how are they then going to send these kids out into the real world?  How is this teaching anyone to be able to thrive in life and especially at work?

I've also grown tired of people saying that they support the military and law enforcement, but only do so superficially. These are highly stressful, undesirable jobs that are hard to fill. People want others to protect them and do the dirty work, but they don't want to pay for it. Putting a flag on your truck and standing for the national anthem doesn't cure PTSD, and it doesn't pay for the heart disease and other medical problems LE retirees will face due to the nature of their careers. Those who retire after the age of 55 have a very high risk of dying before they even turn 65.  Just because I think that math is a real thing, doesn't mean I only support LE and the military superficially.  In the area that I live, it's a joke to say that these jobs are hard to fill.  The police forces around here open a window for applications on a certain date, and then close it 45 minutes later because they are inundated with applications.  There is always a waiting list for jobs.  So obviously, they pay better than you think.  It may be different where you live, but it's ridiculous here.  The CHP is #2 on our list of unfunded pension liabilities, because there are so many officers that make well over $100k.  Public safety as a whole is the #1 cost.  I do think most public safety officers here are way overpaid, otherwise there wouldn't be wait-lists, and there wouldn't be so many of them retiring at 55 who then sit back and live very comfortably off of 80%-90% of their pay that they had jacked up the last 3 years of their service to really get a good amount.  Like I said, however you feel about LE/PS, the math cannot sustain itself here.  It is undoable.  Our cities/counties/state are going to go down in flames when all is said and done.  And if CA goes to the federal government and asks for a bailout, how willing are YOU going to be to pay for our lunacy?  Honestly, I don't think you'll be saying "Well, it's LE/PS, so it's totally worth it!"

I haven't looked into the specifics of California, but nationally, law enforcement agencies are facing some of the biggest shortages of qualified applicants. Just because a department gets 100+ job applications for five positions does not mean that the department will have a lot of people to choose from. About 50% or more are usually eliminated by the written test. A small number will be eliminated by the physical agility test. More will be eliminated either because they won't turn their background packet in time, or it'll be found out that they lied about or omitted information. Even more will be eliminated during the background investigation. If a polygraph test is required, some more will be eliminated. After all of that, more people will be eliminated for not interviewing well, failing a medical exam or drug test, or being deemed unfit after a psychological test.

Some of the highest-paying states for LE are net contributors of taxes to the federal government. I wouldn't mind them getting more of that money back rather than have them subsidize poor states that can't get their act together such as Mississippi. But, those states will be losing even more money under this new tax plan because it punishes states that tax enough to take care of themselves.

[alexf.1990]

This paragraph looks a lot like what I've seen on white supremacist forums. The suggestion is that European civilization is only worthy of studying even though the U.S. is racially diverse and wouldn't be where it is without African slaves. Most of the time, the diversity requirement is to take a humanities course in something that is non-Western Civilization. Humanities is humanities. There's no science behind it; it's just the study of culture. If you can't bother to take one course about all the brown people around you (they will soon outnumber white people in the U.S.), then that's pretty sad. 

I'm disappointed that you were so quick to throw out the "racist" ad hominid. What I said is objectively true. You spent 13 years learning about the accomplishments of people who don't look like you because Western Civilization has always been dominated by people who don't look like you. There's no racist agenda to only teach the accomplishments of whites. If you were educated in Asia, you would learn the accomplishments of Asians. I'm glad you agree that social sciences are largely devoid of the scientific method. Ideas like systemic racism are neither provable nor falsifiable, yet they are espoused as though they were fact. It's clear the people in these disciplines are ideologues competing to upend Western Civilization.

I don't think it should be assumed that America wouldn't be where it is without slavery. It's not clear what economic benefit they actually provided. If anything, the lower economic development in the South suggests that slavery didn't provide much economic benefit. It surely didn't help the North, who relied on indentured servants and industrialization to achieve their wealth.

Cutting pay and benefits has real consequences on police officers more so than someone speaking ill of them. The political groups that law enforcement agencies are most warned about are actually far right wing, anti-government extremists. Left wing extremists were mostly a danger in the 60s and 70s. Recently, one of our officers was locked inside a house by a sovereign citizen. I don't know if you would call them right wing, but they definitely aren't mainstream, left wing, and they're influenced by a Christian Patriot movement. When I took my current job, I wasn't warned about hipsters, pro-choice activists, potheads, and liberal Millennials. I wasn't even warned about Antifa. I was warned about anti-government groups, white supremacists, and sovereign citizens. 

We haven't seen much cutting of benefits and pay. The effect of the recent anti-police sentiment in the media surely has a bigger effect on morale than the superficial support you bemoan. Right wing anti-police sentiment occurred in the 1990s, for sure, but there hasn't been much recently. Even when the right did it, it was limited to a few fringe groups. The anti-police sentiment among the left, especially among blacks, is almost universal. It's quite puzzling as well. There's been no study to show an increased rate of police violence against blacks.

Overall, the racial animus among the left, and the constant drive to punish or reward people based on which group they belong to is very off-putting. It undermines the very individualism the liberals have been pushing for over the last 100 years.

[icampy]

Am I in the other forum, where jackasses bring up trump, racism, and other subjects when people aren’t even talking about them? Jesus. Shut up. Read the OP and start over, people.

[Life Long Learning]

Am I in the other forum, where jackasses bring up trump, racism, and other subjects when people aren’t even talking about them? Jesus. Shut up. Read the OP and start over, people.

Well said

[sanantone]

Am I in the other forum, where jackasses bring up trump, racism, and other subjects when people aren’t even talking about them? Jesus. Shut up. Read the OP and start over, people.

If you're telling people to shut up, then you'd fit in just fine on the other forum. They, too, lack adult social skills. This thread started out political, so what do you expect? The people who always complain about disrespect toward the military are usually people who support a draft dodger who has insulted war heroes and POWs. LLL is only mad because Oregon universities wouldn't give him college credit for his military training. It's similar to how he complains about TESU because they wouldn't accept his FEMA credits. He even said something to the effect of TESU being anti-emergency management.

---

This paragraph looks a lot like what I've seen on white supremacist forums. The suggestion is that European civilization is only worthy of studying even though the U.S. is racially diverse and wouldn't be where it is without African slaves. Most of the time, the diversity requirement is to take a humanities course in something that is non-Western Civilization. Humanities is humanities. There's no science behind it; it's just the study of culture. If you can't bother to take one course about all the brown people around you (they will soon outnumber white people in the U.S.), then that's pretty sad. 

I'm disappointed that you were so quick to throw out the "racist" ad hominid. What I said is objectively true. You spent 13 years learning about the accomplishments of people who don't look like you because Western Civilization has always been dominated by people who don't look like you. There's no racist agenda to only teach the accomplishments of whites. If you were educated in Asia, you would learn the accomplishments of Asians. I'm glad you agree that social sciences are largely devoid of the scientific method. Ideas like systemic racism are neither provable nor falsifiable, yet they are espoused as though they were fact. It's clear the people in these disciplines are ideologues competing to upend Western Civilization.

I don't think it should be assumed that America wouldn't be where it is without slavery. It's not clear what economic benefit they actually provided. If anything, the lower economic development in the South suggests that slavery didn't provide much economic benefit. It surely didn't help the North, who relied on indentured servants and industrialization to achieve their wealth.

Cutting pay and benefits has real consequences on police officers more so than someone speaking ill of them. The political groups that law enforcement agencies are most warned about are actually far right wing, anti-government extremists. Left wing extremists were mostly a danger in the 60s and 70s. Recently, one of our officers was locked inside a house by a sovereign citizen. I don't know if you would call them right wing, but they definitely aren't mainstream, left wing, and they're influenced by a Christian Patriot movement. When I took my current job, I wasn't warned about hipsters, pro-choice activists, potheads, and liberal Millennials. I wasn't even warned about Antifa. I was warned about anti-government groups, white supremacists, and sovereign citizens. 

We haven't seen much cutting of benefits and pay. The effect of the recent anti-police sentiment in the media surely has a bigger effect on morale than the superficial support you bemoan. Right wing anti-police sentiment occurred in the 1990s, for sure, but there hasn't been much recently. Even when the right did it, it was limited to a few fringe groups. The anti-police sentiment among the left, especially among blacks, is almost universal. It's quite puzzling as well. There's been no study to show an increased rate of police violence against blacks.

Overall, the racial animus among the left, and the constant drive to punish or reward people based on which group they belong to is very off-putting. It undermines the very individualism the liberals have been pushing for over the last 100 years.

Until very recently, polls have shown that most black people support the police. There hasn't been an increase in violence; there has just been an increase in smartphones and social media usage bringing to the forefront what black people have been dealing with since slavery was abolished. Still, I'm not afraid of Black Lives Matter shooting me. Those who study homeland security see most of the domestic threats coming from right wing groups the past few years. Neither superficial support nor vocal opposition of the police are more of a concern to me than people who actively challenge the police and train to "fight" the government.

Many cities have cut police and firefighter benefits; it's a trend that started during the Great Recession.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-p...2120120730

Most right wingers in the South don't blame slavery for slow economic development; they blame Lincoln and Reconstruction. Many historians place the blame on Andrew Johnson.

I never said that the social sciences are devoid of science; I said that humanities courses are. Humanities and social science are not the same thing. The humanities aren't supposed to be scientific. I am a social scientist (and a graduate student in a microbiology/biochemistry program), so I'm used to listening to people criticize something they know little about. The social and natural sciences mostly use the same research methods. As a matter of fact, wildlife biology and the study of animal behavior is not much different from sociology. Physical anthropology is basically biology with a focus on the human body. Psychologists often study psychopharmacology and neuroscience and tend to be good statisticians.