TESU BALS with no concentration sanity check.

[AllThose299s]

Hi everyone,

Small Backstory: A combination of switching majors during the winter term along with the encouragement of the Great Recession of 2008 (aka fear) resulted in a small delay of completing my associates degree at the time. I took some extra electives until I was able to take prerequisites from the fall term that I had missed, along with entertaining the notion of getting my bachelors or dual majoring at the time.

Due to what I can only describe as university politics, the idea of getting my bachelors ended up as a no-go as I was attending a regional campus and only certain campuses offered bachelors. To be clear however, the issue wasn't that I would have to attend a different campus but more of the fact how the credits would transfer towards a different campus within the university that was equivalent in the area of study.

For example, I met students who did transfer to towards a different campus within the university after graduating and they described it as starting all over. You could earn your associates in fine arts and would have to still take first year drawing getting your bachelors, or in the case of the student who I met - computer science.

Towards the end of my brick and mortar adventure, during a casual conversation with a professor I discovered that as the university transitioned from quarters to semesters there was possible talks of allowing students to complete their bachelors degree that was offered at some of the other campuses from the regional campus. Considering they already were a few years into just the planning phase of the semester transition process, it made sense to me.

Regardless in 2010, I graduated with my associates in web programming with 158 credits.

Fast Forward: Every so often, I've thought about getting my bachelors. I remember discovering TESU and thought it was just too good to be true, this is something I regret not looking into more earlier. Enter 2020, career wise I have a full time job and I started doing the teex cybersecurity courses for entertainment over the weekend. Signed up for some sophia courses when it was free and was able to complete 6 courses before the free period ended. Discovered this site, spent the last 3 months reading different threads, doing research, etc. Signed up for the sophia annual subscription deal, I figured if can cover at least 1 course towards a degree then it was worth it.

I decided to submit my b&m transcript to TESU to see how they would evaluate my credits, then saw the cost for the residency waiver fee ? which I was a bit off on when doing my initial math. Figured might as well send my ACE transcripts as well.

So I got an email that my TESU evaluation for a BALS with no concentration was updated, I forgot that my 158 credits were based off the quarter system and I was hoping to get a sanity check. Because comparing it to the on & off years I've played with running "what-if's" with my previous b&m university, the TESU eval blows it out of the water. 

Below are the evaluation results from my brick and mortar transcript, still waiting on an update from my ACE transcript.

A: INTEL & PRACT SKILLS (In progress)
Written Communication 3SH (Complete)
Course     Title                           TESU#        SH

ENGL101  English Comp I            ENC-103     2.00
ENGL102  English Comp II           ENC-104     2.00

Written Communication 3SH (Complete)
!! Exception This degree requirement has been satisfied with less semester hours than required. The remaining credit will be made up in a related section.
ENGL289  Intermediate Com       ENC-105      2.00

Oral Communication 3SH (Complete)
!! Exception This degree requirement has been satisfied with less semester hours than required. The remaining credit will be made up in a related section.
COMM171  Eff Public Speaking     COM-209      2.00

Quantitative Literacy 3SH (Complete)
!! Exception This degree requirement has been satisfied with less semester hours than required. The remaining credit will be made up in a related section  
MATH134   Intermediate Algebra  MAT-115      2.00

Information Literacy 3SH (INSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT) (Not started) Must be taken at TESU

B: CIV & GLOBAL LDRSHP (Not started)
Diversity Intercultural Literacy 3SH (Not started) Waiting on ACE transcript
Ethical Leadership 3SH (Not started) Waiting on ACE transcript
Civic Engagement 3SH (Not started)

C: KNOWLDG HUMAN CULTRS (Complete)
CMDS141   Illustration I                  ART-122       2.00
FAST141    Fine Arts Draw I            ART-101       2.00
FAST142    Fine Arts: Draw II          ART-102       2.00
PSYC101    Intro to Psych I             PSY-101        2.00
CMDS164   Web Prod and Design    ART-208        2.00   
EMDT251   Draw for Animation       ART-299        2.00

D: UNDRST PHYS&NAT WRLD (Complete)
CS190       Intro to Ajax                COS-199        2.00
CS186       Intro to Unix                COS-283        2.00   

E: GE ELECTIVES (In progress)
!! Exception The number of semester hours required in this section has been reduced because of semester hour(s) applied to a related section within your degree program. 22 S.H. Required
General Education Electives 20SH
SH Earned: 18
Required: 22
Remaining: 4

CS101          Intro Comp Systems         CIS-107             2.00   
EMDT255     Fund of Animation            ART-252            2.00
CS175          Database Mgmt               CIS-211             2.00
OATN297     Desktop Publish II            ART-299            2.00
CS141         Obj Oriented Prog I           CAP-238            2.00
COMD285     Comp Graphic Design       ART-299            2.00
COMD189     Design Conv & Tech         ART-291            2.00
COMD171     Adv Layout & Design        ART-238            2.00
ENGL292      Tech Communication        ENG-201            2.00
4 credits needed

2: Liberal Studies (30 SH: 15SH at upper level) (In progress)
A: Upper Level (15 SH) (Not started)

B: Liberal Stud (15 SH) (Complete)
CMDS261     Web Design/Graphics        ART-207            2.00
CMDS273     Letter & Typography         ART-212            2.00
CMDS286     Illustration III                  ART-299            2.00   
CMDS266     Web Design Concepts       ART-299            2.00
CMDS288     Comm Des Intern II         COM-299           2.00
CMDS289     Comm Des Intern III        COM-299           2.00
CMDS262     Web Design/Sys               COM-299           2.00
CS291          Server Admin                  COS-299            2.67   

3: Liberal Arts Capstone (3 SH) (Not started)


4: Electives (27SH) (Complete)
!! Exception The number of semester hours required in this section has been reduced because of semester hour(s) applied to a related section within your degree program. 25.33 S.H. Required
OATN225     Windows                         CAP-171          2.00
CMDS267     Adv Web Promo Design    CAP-299          2.00
OATN263     Webpage Scripting           CAP-299          2.00
EMDT282     Website Design                CAP-275          2.00
OATN265     Webpage Databs Conn      ITS-231          2.00
IS285          E-Commerce                     CIS-260          2.00
OATN235     Seminar I                        CAP-299          2.00
OATN236     Seminar II                       CAP-299          2.00
OATN237     Seminar III                      CAP-299          2.00
OATN238     Seminar IV                       CAP-299          2.00
OATN260     Webpage Graphics             CAP-299         2.00
OATN261     Wepage Editor Soft            CAP-299         2.00
CS142          Obj Orient Prog II             CAP-299         2.00

Other Courses:
OATN179     Micro Off Applications        CAP-101           2.00
OATN180     Micro Off Database            CAP-123           2.00
MKTG280     Prin Mktg I                       MAR-201          2.00
OATN295     Webpage Coding               CAP-299           2.00
OATN296     Desktop Publish I              CAP-256           2.00
CS169         Intro Comp Math               CIS-199            2.00
OATN211     Fund Word Process           SES-131            2.00
OATN262     Dynamic Webpage            CAP-299            2.00
CS284          Networking I                    CAP-216            2.67

[rachel83az]

Which Sophia courses did you take? Is there anything else on your ACE transcript? Have you considered going for Comp Sci rather than BALS? You'd need to take a few more classes but Comp Sci would likely be more use in the long run. With Sophia, you could even get a BSBA in Computer Information Systems relatively easily.

Otherwise, Civic Engagement can be completed at InstantCert and then you have SDC for the UL courses. I would highly suggest doing Sophia English, Public Speaking, and Algebra. You'd be "redoing" what you've already done for your associates but these are relatively quick and easy classes compared to trying to fill in the missing credits elsewhere.

---

Also, if you are intent on a BALS, you have enough RA credits that it makes applying to COSC an option. You'd need a science-with-a-lab but Tel Learning has that for $267. COSC would be cheaper because they don't have the residency waiver.

[allvia]

How does it work out in the 'what if' is you go with the BALS w/Natural Sciences and Mathematics Concentration? This seems a realistic concentration vs no concentration based on what you already have.. You'll need the UL credits no matter what (likely SDC is the best source for them); UL CIS works for the concentration - you wouldn't actually need any more math. With the credits you have I'd go as far as emailing TESU advising and tell them you wanted the BALS eval for the Natural Sciences and Mathematics Concentration (they will add this quickly, and it will be official eval vs just the informal 'what if').  You could also add the ASNSM in Computer Science (that would be a free add on degree)

FOR UL SDC in this concentraion here are the CIS options I know of:

SDC Business 303: Management Information Systems  = TESU CIS-301 Management Information Systems
 
SDC Computer Science 302: Systems Analysis & Design = TESU CIS-320 System Analysis & Design I 

DC Computer Science 303: Database Management = TESU  CIS-311 Database Management

MAYBE (because it works for the BSBA CIS AOS);
SDC Business 309: Digital Marketing & Advertising =  TESU MAR-441 Marketing with Digital and Social Media 

This definitely gives you all the "Natural Sciences and Mathematics - aka Understanding the Physical and Natural World"  you'd need and the remaining few other UL courses credits you could do in the other Gen Ed UL Liberal subjects.

[LevelUP]

How does it work out in the 'what if' is you go with the BALS w/Natural Sciences and Mathematics Concentration? This seems a realistic concentration vs no concentration based on what you already have.. You'll need the UL credits no matter what (likely SDC is the best source for them); UL CIS works for the concentration - you wouldn't actually need any more math. With the credits you have I'd go as far as emailing TESU advising and tell them you wanted the BALS eval for the Natural Sciences and Mathematics Concentration (they will add this quickly, and it will be official eval vs just the informal 'what if').  You could also add the ASNSM in Computer Science (that would be a free add on degree)

FOR UL SDC in this concentraion here are the CIS options I know of:

SDC Business 303: Management Information Systems  = TESU CIS-301 Management Information Systems
 
SDC Computer Science 302: Systems Analysis & Design = TESU CIS-320 System Analysis & Design I 

DC Computer Science 303: Database Management = TESU  CIS-311 Database Management

MAYBE (because it works for the BSBA CIS AOS);
SDC Business 309: Digital Marketing & Advertising =  TESU MAR-441 Marketing with Digital and Social Media 

This definitely gives you all the "Natural Sciences and Mathematics - aka Understanding the Physical and Natural World"  you'd need and the remaining few other UL courses credits you could do in the other Gen Ed UL Liberal subjects.

UL possibilities for Liberal Studies, the concentration of Natural Sciences and Mathematics  (not confirmed)
SDC Business 303: Management Information Systems
SDC Computer Science 303: Database Management
SDC Computer Science 302: Systems Analysis & Design
SDC Computer Science 306: Computer Architecture
TECEP Networking or Coopersmith Linear Algebra

By the time you do all the UL for the liberal studies/natural science, you would be only 4 courses away from a Bacholors Computer Science degree

You can move forward and take the Cornerstone/Capstone for Liberal Studies right away as if you were going for that degree and then take the required courses for the Computer Science while doing the Capstone.

[AllThose299s]

The reason I got the evaluation for the BALS w/ no concentration was because I believe it was recommended within the application process with TESU.

When I saw the residency waiver (I did the math with the certificate cost instead of the bachelors cost by mistake prior to submitting - also this is why I regret not looking into TESU more around 2012-ish) I was pretty discouraged and felt that I at least could play with the "what-if" option and see if anything stood out.

The results were better than I had expected. I mean... it's a BALS w/no concentration (no offense to anyone) but for a "check the box" bachelors, I'm seeing the light at the end of the tunnel with my b&m credits and I haven't even stepped into the tunnel. Which is a very positive experience comparing it to any of the "what-ifs" with my b&m university before.

--

It's after midnight my time, so I will try look more into everyone's replies within the next couple of days.

I am curious once they've updated my evaluation with my ACE transcript on what TESU is planning for me to do for those Exception notes - because for the Written Communication the first section they have my 2 english courses which total 4SH and the second section it's obviously 2SH, however both written communication sections total 6SH.

For Oral Communications, I'm curious if they are still expecting me to make up the 1SH, when I have my "Tech Communication" for 2SH in the GE Electives. Which I see that Technical Communication is listed for Oral Communication in https://www.tesu.edu/academics/courses/2019-and-after (However the TESU course is ENG-202 and my evaluation is for ENG-201) I am able to pull my course descriptions from my b&m which it does state it includes written & oral reports, so I might have to reach back to TESU.

For example, they have my intro to computer math as CIS-199 however based off my b&m description I'm thinking it should be more of MAT-270.

"An introduction to mathematical topics that serve as a foundation for the study of computer hardware and software. The course focuses on topics from set theory, logic, graph theory, number systems, data representation and algorithms."

While I don't have many of the previous syllabi of all of my previous courses, I was able to find that course and a few others...

Another note is I did find a pdf where another campus which offered bachelors within the same University has a few courses listed as equivalent to upper level (IT309 Database Management in the campus  to the course "database management", IT322 Server ­Side Web Development to "Webpage Databs Conn" and IT354 Web Administration to "Server Administration" from the campus I attended) granted the whole quarter to semester transition would throw things off and that might cause some issues if they were to map it to CIS-311 Database Management as 2SH... I mean if they did, I suppose they might still accept the SDC course but only have it as then 3SH and it would go to other courses... unless I were to complete the 1UL cyber course from TEEX... Hmm... They also have my Obj Oriented Prog courses equivalent to computer programming courses, however they don't have intro to comp math as equivalent to their discrete math courses but they were also 4 credit hour quarter courses and they had a discrete math 1 & 2 for a total of 8 credit hours, compared to the 3 credit hours for intro to comp math... so I can see where it wouldn't be considered equivalent to their program.. Well, we will have to see, maybe I'll send TESU the pdf of the other campus's Articulation Course Equivalency along with the course descriptions and syllabi that I can find and see what happens, worse that they can say is no.

ACE Transcript
Sophia
> Accounting SOPH-0010
> Ancient Greek Philosophers SOPH-0027
> Art History I SOPH-0006
> Art History II SOPH-0029
> Developing Effective Teams SOPH-0021
> Environmental Science SOPH-0016
> Essentials of Managing Conflict SOPH-0026
> Human Biology SOPH-0002
> Introduction to Ethics SOPH-0020
> Introduction to Information Technology SOPH-0023
> Microeconomics SOPH-0011
> Project Management SOPH-0013
> Visual Communications SOPH-0009

> Introduction to Statistics (Currently in progress and I've been taking a small break since I've just completed my first milestone on it and I need to find where I placed my physical calculator from high school... It might not been a graphing calculator but it would at least prevent a few headaches.)

Texas Engineering Extension Service
> Cyber Ethics TEEX-0278
> Cyber Law and White-Collar Crime TEEX-0277
> Digital Forensics Basics TEEX-0281
> Information Security Basics TEEX-0282
> Information Security for Everyone TEEX-0279
> Network Assurance TEEX-0280
> Secure Software TEEX-0283

[allvia]

Did you receive the email from them stating the evaluation was completed, or are you just looking at it as they post the transcripts? I ask because until you get the email from them the system is just plopping things randomly - a human gives it the final official review (then you get an email that your evaluation is complete).  

I totally understand the check the box degree approach, definitely not knocking it - which is why I recommended the BALS w/Natural Sciences and Mathematics concentration vs the BACS- it is the path to least resistance based on what you already have (you need to take UL credits no matter, these just expand on topics you already know and add the extra (concentration) with no extra work on your part.

You're really close to a bachelor degree.

[bjcheung77]

Yes sir... That is a lot of 99's I tell you! Very interesting indeed... They are there because there are no specific transfer equivalents, thus they have a 99 at the end of the course level, ex 199 for first year, 299 for second, 399 for third and lastly a 499 if that's a 4th year course...

Anyways, there are so many things to look at, the BALS NSM, BACS, just a BALS with no concentration, or you can be the "all in one" person like me - I would want to get more credits and credentials for the price of just one. So, my question is, are you going to pay for the residency waiver or would you rather take a few courses to get graded credits and an extra degree or two...

[AllThose299s]

Thank you for all the information, it's given me something to ponder about for the last week or so. I'm going to shoot for trying to get the BSBA in CIS and I'll keep in mind that I could do the BALS NSM or BALS w/no concentration as a final resort. I assume it's possible to do the free add on degree of ASNSM in CS while doing the BSBA in CIS?

@rachel83az, @allvia & @LevelUP - Thank you again for the recommendations on courses.

@allvia - I did receive the email stating the evaluation was completed and sadly I didn't notice that by sending my ACE transcript that it would count as my 2nd evaluation.

@bjcheung77 - I probably will end up paying the residency waiver just because the cost & time needed for the 16 credits at TESU.

Right now my goal will be to knock out as many sophia credits that would fall into the BSBA in CIS, then I'll probably enroll at TESU, get an updated evaluation and I'll create a new thread for that degree plan and start taking the UL courses from SDC that was recommended in this thread.

[allvia]

Yes, you can easily add on the ASNSM in CS.

[bjcheung77]

Have you done a "What if I change my program" option and see what's missing for your ASNSM and other possible degrees to see what it shows within each academic evaluation? Do you have a budget/fund, tuition assistance or reimbursement from work? I would reply with an attachment of each evaluation you have done and we can see if you can apply that towards your current goal. You're already there for the BALS, you can just finish the degree if you're looking for cheap/easy/fast. Another option is, if you have tuition assistance, you can try and complete 16-18 credits and go for a BACS AND/OR BSBA CIS, since you're thinking of taking extra courses anyways, it may be a better option.