TESC and Law School

[SophanPhin]

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum but I highly advise against omitting any transcripts. I'm not aware of any college that doesn't request transcripts from all schools you attended prior - it's just standard practice. Also, as someone who works with education verification on a daily basis, it takes about two five seconds for them to pull up your entire education history through the National Student Clearinghouse. Your name will be on this database if you ever applied for financial aid.

Also, seeing as how law schools are cut-throat these days, I'm 100% certain they'll verify it. The consequences for omitting transcripts can be pretty severe and could even lead to your dismissal from the college or revocation of a conferred degree. Imagine how painful it'd be for a practicing lawyer to have their license revoked because they technically "lied" on their law school application.

I say acknowledge your previous, less-than-stellar academic record in your admissions app. and smoke the LSAT. Lawyers' careers are built upon reputations - you wouldn't want to compromise that in any way.

[GringoInTijuana]

You know, the more I've researched this the past 48 hours and thought about it, the more I think I agree with you. I'm just going to transfer all my credits to either TESC or Excelsior (now I am indecisive about which school to seek a BA Liberal Studies from!). Not to brag or anything, (because believe me, I am in no position to do so given my academic situation) but as I said in my 1st post I literally took the LSAT dry and scored a 148 (ironically, higher than my dad or brother scored!) so I KNOW that if I put in a good 3 or 4 months of hard core study prep and take the LSAT again, I should improve by at least 10 points (157). Even with a 2.0 GPA a 157 LSAT score translates to about a 30-40% chance of getting into Cal Western Law School and 60-80% for Thomas Jefferson Law School, which are the only two schools I even care about (both in San Diego and low ranked, 4th tier schools). So I would rather just avoid any potential risks and transfer everything. I can always take advantage of the "Addendum" everyone gets to write as part of their LSDAS report that law schools see. I will have to lean heavily on whatever LSAT score I pull the second time around. Good thing 99% of law schools no longer average multiple LSAT scores anymore like they used to! They take the highest score, period. Thanks everyone.

[GringoInTijuana]

Here's another question, kind of off-topic. Which of the big three would be the easiest for me to go nuts with portfolio credits (like 45+ credits) for Spanish language, court interpreting, and translation? (I've already researched and found about 90 credits worth of distinct RA accredited college course descriptions so far without overlapping course content!) If anyone speaks fluent Spanish and wants a copy of my word doc list of these courses, email me.) So I'm looking for the easiest/fastest and cheapest school for prior learning assesment/portfolio credit... anybody?

[cookderosa]

You know, the more I've researched this the past 48 hours and thought about it, the more I think I agree with you. I'm just going to transfer all my credits to either TESC or Excelsior (now I am indecisive about which school to seek a BA Liberal Studies from!). Not to brag or anything, (because believe me, I am in no position to do so given my academic situation) but as I said in my 1st post I literally took the LSAT dry and scored a 148 (ironically, higher than my dad or brother scored!) so I KNOW that if I put in a good 3 or 4 months of hard core study prep and take the LSAT again, I should improve by at least 10 points (157). Even with a 2.0 GPA a 157 LSAT score translates to about a 30-40% chance of getting into Cal Western Law School and 60-80% for Thomas Jefferson Law School, which are the only two schools I even care about (both in San Diego and low ranked, 4th tier schools). So I would rather just avoid any potential risks and transfer everything. I can always take advantage of the "Addendum" everyone gets to write as part of their LSDAS report that law schools see. I will have to lean heavily on whatever LSAT score I pull the second time around. Good thing 99% of law schools no longer average multiple LSAT scores anymore like they used to! They take the highest score, period. Thanks everyone.

WAIT. No, you are mixing up "don't lie" with "transfer everything."

Don't lie means on your law school application, you will list 2 schools:

1. old crappy school, coursework only, 27 credits earned, 2.0 GPA
2. TESC, BA degree, 120 credits earned, 3.5 GPA

You are simply acknowledging the existence of the credits to law school - not the same as using them in a bachelor's degree.

Remember, you need over 100 credits (graded, not CLEP) at straight-A grade (not A-) to pull up your GPA. Dude, start fresh.

[cookderosa]

Here's another question, kind of off-topic. Which of the big three would be the easiest for me to go nuts with portfolio credits (like 45+ credits) for Spanish language, court interpreting, and translation? (I've already researched and found about 90 credits worth of distinct RA accredited college course descriptions so far without overlapping course content!) If anyone speaks fluent Spanish and wants a copy of my word doc list of these courses, email me.) So I'm looking for the easiest/fastest and cheapest school for prior learning assesment/portfolio credit... anybody?

>>

For foreign language, you earn 12 humanities credits for a high pass in any language. (cheap cheap cheap- do it for sure)
Portfolios are not done at TESC, they have PLAs. Prior learning assessment. Use this board's seach feature- I think I have written a book of posts on that topic.

[Blitzstudie]

As I was reading this my thought was to just not send it, its not like LSDAS will hunt you down, it is just a service to compile records etc to send to the schools, shocker lawyers thought this up and require you to use it and pay for it ...but it appears there are ways for them to find out and not disclosing is prob an automatic no go.

See if the school has an academic renewal policy you can use, after a certain # of years they set aside the grades you compiled in your wayward youth and give you a fresh start...

The second option no one has mentioned is REPLACING the credit...Lets say you have an F in History...Take the CLEP/DSST/whatever exam for History...You will both knock the F off your GPA AND get credit for the class something you arent with the F. The F appears but on the transcript but isnt used GPA wise. If it is permissible I would do it for every F and D it was feasible for. You should be able to do them anywhere and xfer them to the CC...The only limits I can think of are the exams the CC gives credit for and your ability to do "normal" classes to replace them.

I suggest you check the CC renewal,transfer and CLEP/exam acceptence policy. Then post whatever rules etc AND the classes you got Fs and Ds in so people can give you the alternatives...

If it is CSN, I looked they have academic renewal after 5 years from time of last class,also accept CLEP and DSST,no courses listed so I am guessing all.

Just as an aside, if you werent aware of it California is one of a few states that lets you take the bar after attending a UNaccredited law school. Heres the link for the info.

California Law Schools

You can check at the schools but my guess is credit wont xfr but if you are going to practice in CA you might want to think about it.

[gcalvin]

Don't try to hide transcripts. While it's true that LSDAS may not catch on if you start over and don't use your existing credits, you need to think long term -- after you graduate law school, you will want to take the bar, and at that point, the bar association's character and fitness review most likely will find your old academic history, and know that you fraudulently withheld that history from your law school applications. You could end up having spent three years and a big chunk of money for nothing.

Get your LSAT score up into the high 150s, and your GPA won't matter for either of the schools you're considering. Get it up over 160, and get your LSAC GPA up to 3.0, and you're in at USD as well -- why isn't that school on your list?

You have more options for raising your GPA at Excelsior, but your portfolio assessment and FEMA credit options are better at TESC.

-Gary-

[cookderosa]

The second option no one has mentioned is REPLACING the credit.

Good option, but only if he goes back to the issuing school- otherwise it only replaces at the new school, which means he is in exactly the same spot as he is now.

[GringoInTijuana]

As I was reading this my thought was to just not send it, its not like LSDAS will hunt you down, it is just a service to compile records etc to send to the schools, shocker lawyers thought this up and require you to use it and pay for it ...but it appears there are ways for them to find out and not disclosing is prob an automatic no go.

See if the school has an academic renewal policy you can use, after a certain # of years they set aside the grades you compiled in your wayward youth and give you a fresh start...

The second option no one has mentioned is REPLACING the credit...Lets say you have an F in History...Take the CLEP/DSST/whatever exam for History...You will both knock the F off your GPA AND get credit for the class something you arent with the F. The F appears but on the transcript but isnt used GPA wise. If it is permissible I would do it for every F and D it was feasible for. You should be able to do them anywhere and xfer them to the CC...The only limits I can think of are the exams the CC gives credit for and your ability to do "normal" classes to replace them.

I suggest you check the CC renewal,transfer and CLEP/exam acceptence policy. Then post whatever rules etc AND the classes you got Fs and Ds in so people can give you the alternatives...

If it is CSN, I looked they have academic renewal after 5 years from time of last class,also accept CLEP and DSST,no courses listed so I am guessing all.

Just as an aside, if you werent aware of it California is one of a few states that lets you take the bar after attending a UNaccredited law school. Heres the link for the info.

California Law Schools

You can check at the schools but my guess is credit wont xfr but if you are going to practice in CA you might want to think about it.

1. Already thought of replacing it but as Jennifer said, it has to be done at CSN (original school), and here's the clincher; LSDAS STILL FACTOR IN THE "REPLACED" GRADES!!! So an "F" that gets replaced by a "A" will still count as an "F" in my LSDAS GPA and frankly, I have too many "F"s to replace in the time remaining to finish my degree. It would take about 3 more semesters and some of the classes are not offered online and I no longer live in Vegas. Nice idea though.

2. As far as non-accredited schools go, I applied back in January to Western Sierra Law School, an unaccredited law school in San Diego and supposedly one of the best non-ABA schools in the state. They DO NOT EVEN require an undergrad degree. To sit the CA Bar exam the CA Bar only requires either 60 college credits (NOT an AA/AS), OR 18 credits of CLEP exams but must include English Comp, (without essay if you like!) and two more of the 6 credit exams or foreign language. It is the law schools themselves, NOT the CA Bar, that require undergrad degrees for admission to their school. But this is just my back up plan.

Info Source--( Educational Requirements to take Bar Exam)

Info Source--- ( Attorney Profile - Michael P. Ehline - California State Bar - Law Office Study Program )


3.I even went as far as discovering that law school is NOT EVEN REQUIRED in California and 7 other states. You can study under a licensed attorney or judge in what is known as a "Law Office Study" program. After 4 years of 6 attorney-supervised study hours per week and an additional 18 un-supervised hours weekly as well as short, monthly exams administered by your mentoring attorney... you may sit the CA Bar exam. Pretty amazing huh? My dad is a lawyer in Vegas but is licensed to practice in CA as well and he was going to be my mentor. The problem is that you are stuck practicing in CA and nowhere else and I'm not sure I like that idea so I decided to get my degree and go to an ABA school instead. (although the thought of saving over $100k via the apprentice program still entices me at times).

[GringoInTijuana]

get your LSAC GPA up to 3.0, and you're in at USD as well -- why isn't that school on your list?


-Gary-[/QUOTE]


Good question, my reason is that both Cal-Western and Thomas Jefferson both have short, accelerated JD programs lasting only 18 months instead of 3-4 years and I want to be a lawyer before I'm 30 I know, sounds silly but I'm obsessed. USD just seems too cut-throat and competitive for me. got a friend that goes there in his third year and says if he could do it over again, he would rather have gone to Cal Western or Thomas Jefferson and graduated in less than 2 years in the top 30% of his class than sweat it out 4 years (night program) at USD to make 75th percentile. And for what? Just to say that I went to a better ranked school? Who cares about that unless you plan on getting hired at some big firm and being someone else's employee for the rest of your life!? Not me man, I just want my JD and a passing Bar exam score and I'm going solo. As a Certified Court Interpreter I've already got 3 1/2 years of courtroom experience in everything from criminal arraignments to personal injury civil trials. I consider myself more prepared than the average law student. Besides, it worked for my old man and he's taught me everything he knows about solo practicing (http://www.richardharrislaw.com/). I have no intention of spending my life making other people rich. Please don't take this personally, I am in no way harping on you at all! Just passionate about my plan and opinion that's all. USD is a great school, but that is just what i don't want to have deal with. :p Thank you for your reply!