TECEP Admissions/Rate my sanity

[PreLawCoastie]

Merry Christmas everyone! I'm an active duty pre-law military guy that, unfortunately, only stumbled on this forum a few days ago. Man have I been missing out.

Last summer I took a few classes at PSU World, and last semester started working in earnest towards a BA in poly sci. I did a couple SOPHIA courses during the pandemic (back when you had to pay per class, yikes) and threw in some more, as well as previous junior college credits (Snow, although I never finished an associates or anything.) See my credits so far at the end.


I've been putting of the Gen-Ed requirements at penn state unfortunately. As well as a few extra poly sci classes, i need CAS 100A (public speaking) ENGL 202 (technical/business/other applied writing course) and a 12th credit level of a foreign language. My primary concern is maintaining my GPA - more on that later, but if I can't get an A, I've been dropping the class. I have no trouble in my major classes, but I'm worried about spanish and english composition (I could have tested out of the first one and didn't, like a fool, and that's my lowest grade.)

PSU will give me CAS100A and ENGL 202 for the Public Speaking & Technical Writing courses, although I need to verify the CR/NC the TECEPS show up as will work. I applied as a non-matriculated student at TE two days ago (fee waiver for military!) but haven't heard back yet. MY ADD/DROP DEADLINE AT PSU IS JANUARY 12TH and I believe that you can't take the TECEP until the day the term at TE starts (05JAN) and it says it can take 2 weeks for essay TECEPS to be graded. Will I have enough time here? Is there a way to take the courses earlier or accelerate grading? Please advise.

I took Spanish in high school, and took the Spanish CLEP twice now, but I've only scored high enough for SPAN 1 & 2. I'm certain I could pass Spanish 3 at PSU no problem, but definitely not with an A. I checked every single school on the "Sources of Credit" wiki page, and none of the self-paced options have a SPAN3 credit that PSU will take. I applied at Rio Salado and was accepted; I'm a UT resident legally (not stationed there) but none of the UT community college's offer pass/fail grading. PSU has approved intermediate Spanish at Rio Salado as a SPAN 3 credit, although I'm not sure if cr/nc will work - I plan to check with my advisor when she's back from the holiday. I've also had issues with the Maricopa CC registration system - I'm accepted with an account and .edu email, but when I try to register it says I'm not enrolled at a campus, and when I try and log back into the application it says to wait for a DUO authentication, but never logs me in when I accept it. I tried calling but nobody picked up. Can anyone think of an alternative pass/fail or self paced/non proctored 12th credit level language course? So many options (UND/u of phoenix/SOPHIA even though PSU won't accept it) only go up to SPAN 2. The only other option I found was accelerated Latin at UT@Austin, but that was way over the top and not pass/fail. 

Last point- my gpa. I've maintained OK grades at PSU, but I need the best grades possible for law school; I want to go to a T14. I have a 168 on the LSAT but am workin on it - my score will definitely go up when they get rid of the logic games but I worry everyone else's will too! If you look below, I have two stupid courses I took to graduate HS early that are counted by the LSAC for my undergrad gpa. For those that aren't aware, it averages all your grades (unfortuately including in High school, and A+s even though PSU doesn't have them) until you receive your first bachelor's degree, then stops. My current UGPA is a 3.6, and my goal is a high 3.8+ I'm working on trying to get readmitted to BYU Idaho to retake those courses, they only just made retakes an option and it's still a little fuzzy. I've been working through some ASU EA courses to get my GPA up although PSU won't take any of the self paced ones for credit that would help me (although the non-self paced history courses I could work into a minor if I took two upper div history courses) Does anyone know of anything cheaper, and preferably that has A+ as an option? Otherwise in the summer I'll probably transfer over to ASU proper as they do offer A+, although my Tuition Assistance is already maxed out for the year.

---

Credits
BYU - Idaho (Concurrent HS Enrollment, took online via petition/COVID) (Summer 2020)
POLS 110 - AMERICAN GOV - B-
SOC 383 - JUVENILE DELINQUENCY - C

Snow College (Online, non-accelerated) (Fall 2021)
SOC 1010 - Intro Sociology - A
PSY 1010 - INTRO PSYCH - A
SW 2400 - DIVERSE POPULATIONS - A
COMM 2110 - INTERPERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS - B+ (This professor hated me and I'm still pissed I got a B+ in it. Doofus.)
CJ 1010 - Intro to CJ - A

PSU World (Summer 2023-Present) (MD represents military drop, not completed, doesn't effect GPA

[Avidreader]

If you hurry up and sign up for the Computer Spanish Speaking ACTFL exam, you could do it before Dec 31st while the provisional ACE credit is still active. Depending on your fluency level, you could get up to 12 Credits. The reading exam is no doozie in my opinion (I only got Upper Intermediate but I was distracted during the exam), but I found the spoken exam to be easy. They ask you to just talk about various topics like if you will go to the cinema or complain about politicians for 90 seconds at a time. Results come in a few days later. It might satisfy your foreign language requirement without harming your GPA.

[PreLawCoastie]

Merry Christmas everyone! I'm an active duty pre-law military guy that, unfortunately, only stumbled on this forum a few days ago. Man have I been missing out.

Last summer I took a few classes at PSU World, and last semester started working in earnest towards a BA in poly sci. I did a couple SOPHIA courses during the pandemic (back when you had to pay per class, yikes) and threw in some more, as well as previous junior college credits (Snow, although I never finished an associates or anything.) See my credits so far at the end.


I've been putting of the Gen-Ed requirements at penn state unfortunately. As well as a few extra poly sci classes, i need CAS 100A (public speaking) ENGL 202 (technical/business/other applied writing course) and a 12th credit level of a foreign language. My primary concern is maintaining my GPA - more on that later, but if I can't get an A, I've been dropping the class. I have no trouble in my major classes, but I'm worried about spanish and english composition (I could have tested out of the first one and didn't, like a fool, and that's my lowest grade.)

PSU will give me CAS100A and ENGL 202 for the Public Speaking & Technical Writing courses, although I need to verify the CR/NC the TECEPS show up as will work. I applied as a non-matriculated student at TE two days ago (fee waiver for military!) but haven't heard back yet. MY ADD/DROP DEADLINE AT PSU IS JANUARY 12TH and I believe that you can't take the TECEP until the day the term at TE starts (05JAN) and it says it can take 2 weeks for essay TECEPS to be graded. Will I have enough time here? Is there a way to take the courses earlier or accelerate grading? Please advise.

I took Spanish in high school, and took the Spanish CLEP twice now, but I've only scored high enough for SPAN 1 & 2. I'm certain I could pass Spanish 3 at PSU no problem, but definitely not with an A. I checked every single school on the "Sources of Credit" wiki page, and none of the self-paced options have a SPAN3 credit that PSU will take. I applied at Rio Salado and was accepted; I'm a UT resident legally (not stationed there) but none of the UT community college's offer pass/fail grading. PSU has approved intermediate Spanish at Rio Salado as a SPAN 3 credit, although I'm not sure if cr/nc will work - I plan to check with my advisor when she's back from the holiday. I've also had issues with the Maricopa CC registration system - I'm accepted with an account and .edu email, but when I try to register it says I'm not enrolled at a campus, and when I try and log back into the application it says to wait for a DUO authentication, but never logs me in when I accept it. I tried calling but nobody picked up. Can anyone think of an alternative pass/fail or self paced/non proctored 12th credit level language course? So many options (UND/u of phoenix/SOPHIA even though PSU won't accept it) only go up to SPAN 2. The only other option I found was accelerated Latin at UT@Austin, but that was way over the top and not pass/fail. 

Last point- my gpa. I've maintained OK grades at PSU, but I need the best grades possible for law school; I want to go to a T14. I have a 168 on the LSAT but am workin on it - my score will definitely go up when they get rid of the logic games but I worry everyone else's will too! If you look below, I have two stupid courses I took to graduate HS early that are counted by the LSAC for my undergrad gpa. For those that aren't aware, it averages all your grades (unfortuately including in High school, and A+s even though PSU doesn't have them) until you receive your first bachelor's degree, then stops. My current UGPA is a 3.6, and my goal is a high 3.8+ I'm working on trying to get readmitted to BYU Idaho to retake those courses, they only just made retakes an option and it's still a little fuzzy. I've been working through some ASU EA courses to get my GPA up although PSU won't take any of the self paced ones for credit that would help me (although the non-self paced history courses I could work into a minor if I took two upper div history courses) Does anyone know of anything cheaper, and preferably that has A+ as an option? Otherwise in the summer I'll probably transfer over to ASU proper as they do offer A+, although my Tuition Assistance is already maxed out for the year.

---

Credits
BYU - Idaho (Concurrent HS Enrollment, took online via petition/COVID) (Summer 2020)
POLS 110 - AMERICAN GOV - B-
SOC 383 - JUVENILE DELINQUENCY - C

Snow College (Online, non-accelerated) (Fall 2021)
SOC 1010 - Intro Sociology - A
PSY 1010 - INTRO PSYCH - A
SW 2400 - DIVERSE POPULATIONS - A
COMM 2110 - INTERPERSONAL COMMUNICATIONS - B+ (This professor hated me and I'm still pissed I got a B+ in it. Doofus.)
CJ 1010 - Intro to CJ - A

PSU World (Summer 2023-Present) 

(Sorry, the bottom got cut off)

ASTRO 7N - Artistic Universe - A
ENGL 15 - Rhetoric and Comp - B+ - Really regret this one
HIST 101 - Roman Republic & Empire - B - Regret it too
PLSC 14 - International Relations - A
PLSC 442 - Am Foreign Policy - A-
PLSC 473 - Am Judicial Behavior - B+

CRIMJ 12 - Criminology - A
PLSC 10 - Sci Study of Pols - A
PLSC 308 - Intro to Pl Research - A - Absolute b of a class I took because I wanted the BS. Seriously do not reccomend it. Not a fun time. 0/10.
PLSC 480W - Congress & The Presidency - A
THEA 112 - Intro Music Theatre - A - Probably shouldn't have taken this, but I couldn't resist.

Next Semster:
CAS 100A/ENGL 202D, hope to drop these if the TECEP comes through in time
PLSC3/468/471/472. Spanish @ CC or late add.

SOPHIA credits:
USH1&2 - HIST 20/21
HUMAN BIOLOGY - BISC 4
INTRO TO ETHICS - PHIL 3
ART HIST 1 - ARTH1111
COLLEGE ALGEBRA - MATH 4
INTRO TO STATS - STAT 100
CALC 1 - MATH 140 (This was a seriously big deal)
INTRO SOCIOLOGY - SOC 1
FOUND OF ENGLISH COMP - ENGL 4

ANCIENT GREEK PHILOSOPHERS/ENVI SCI/NUTRITION/INTRO TO WEB DEV/DVL EFFECTIVE TEAMS/VIS COMMS - Misc elective credits

CLEP
USH1 - HIST 20 Took before the SOPHIA course, oops
Macro/Micro - ECON 102/104
Humanities - HUM 100N - That "N" is a pain in the bum at PSU, which is the only reason I took that exam
Span without writing- Span 1/2. I need span3, dang it

Military
My JST only showed basic training and "A" school. By making a massive fuss (seriously, pain in the but that involved me petitioning) I was able to get them to accept other ACE certified military quals for credit - still easier than getting the coast guard to figure out how to add them to my JST lol. Either way, just a bunch of misc elective credit.

---

If you hurry up and sign up for the Computer Spanish Speaking ACTFL exam, you could do it before Dec 31st while the provisional ACE credit is still active. Depending on your fluency level, you could get up to 12 Credits. The reading exam is no doozie in my opinion (I only got Upper Intermediate but I was distracted during the exam), but I found the spoken exam to be easy. They ask you to just talk about various topics like if you will go to the cinema or complain about politicians for 90 seconds at a time. Results come in a few days later. It might satisfy your foreign language requirement without harming your GPA.

Is this the "oral proficiency interview?" My ESO (Education Service Officer) tried to get met to take the Defense Language Proficiency, which is a similar exam, but PSU didn't offer it for credit. How do I take this?

I'm in a remote location with only CLEP (no Prometric/dsst/sylvan) at the testing center at the local CC, so I need virtual proctoring if there's no time to mail paper tests there.

[bjcheung77]

@PreLawCoastie, Welcome to the board and Happy Holidays, I feel this should go into the Degree Planning Advice section instead of the exam area. This is a very good introduction post with very detailed info, however, it's missing the more important details to give a concise, compact, clearer overview from the addendum and template here: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...Area-works

[Avidreader]

Is this the "oral proficiency interview?" My ESO (Education Service Officer) tried to get met to take the Defense Language Proficiency, which is a similar exam, but PSU didn't offer it for credit. How do I take this?

I'm in a remote location with only CLEP (no Prometric/dsst/sylvan) at the testing center at the local CC, so I need virtual proctoring if there's no time to mail paper tests there.

Yes, this is probably that exam. It is done online with a proctor. You can order it here:

https://www.languagetesting.com/

[LevelUP]

My primary concern is maintaining my GPA - more on that later, but if I can't get an A, I've been dropping the class. 

That's getting pretty anal, but I understand. Lol.

Are you using RateMyProfessor to pick your professors?

Other tips on how to get straight A's
https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...in-College

I need the best grades possible for law school; I want to go to a T14. I have a 168 on the LSAT but am workin on it - my score will definitely go up when they get rid of the logic games but I worry everyone else's will too! 

If you can get your GPA to 3.70, then you shouldn't be discriminated by any law school. Some law school acceptance calculators show that 168 is good enough to get into a T14 school, so you are already there, but maybe a higher score will help you get more significant scholarships.

The tips for getting into law school guide has some advice for how to get a high LSAT score.
https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...Law-School

PSU World (Summer 2023-Present) (MD represents military drop, not completed, doesn't effect GPA

I was curious if you have any feedback for this college.

1. What is your major?
   
2. How many courses are you taking per term? 
   
3. How many hours a week do you spend studying?
   
4. How many papers and/or exams must you do per course?  Paper length?
   
5. How are the quality of the courses?
   
6. Anything else you can think of?
   

You are among the few students attending this college, so any feedback is appreciated.

[PreLawCoastie]

@PreLawCoastie, Welcome to the board and Happy Holidays, I feel this should go into the Degree Planning Advice section instead of the exam area.  This is a very good introduction post with very detailed info, however, it's missing the more important details to give a concise, compact, clearer overview from the addendum and template here: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...Area-works

Whoops, I apolgize! I started with the questions, and it all ballooned from there.

---

My primary concern is maintaining my GPA - more on that later, but if I can't get an A, I've been dropping the class. 

That's getting pretty anal, but I understand. Lol.

Are you using RateMyProfessor to pick your professors?

Other tips on how to get straight A's
https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...in-College

I need the best grades possible for law school; I want to go to a T14. I have a 168 on the LSAT but am workin on it - my score will definitely go up when they get rid of the logic games but I worry everyone else's will too! 

If you can get your GPA to 3.70, then you shouldn't be discriminated by any law school. Some law school acceptance calculators show that 168 is good enough to get into a T14 school, so you are already there, but maybe a higher score will help you get more significant scholarships.

The tips for getting into law school guide has some advice for how to get a high LSAT score.
https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...Law-School

PSU World (Summer 2023-Present) (MD represents military drop, not completed, doesn't effect GPA

I was curious if you have any feedback for this college.

1. What is your major?
   
2. How many courses are you taking per term? 
   
3. How many hours a week do you spend studying?
   
4. How many papers and/or exams must you do per course?  Paper length?
   
5. How are the quality of the courses?
   
6. Anything else you can think of?
   

You are among the few students attending this college, so any feedback is appreciated.

I do use rate my professor, but it doesn't work very well because of the way PSU World is structured. Most of the courses really are taught by PSU faculty, so a class that would be taught by a professor at University Park will often be taught by an adjunct that normally teaches different classes for World. I actually really like this - these classes tend to be taught much better, and it's great for getting letters of recommendation and actually having a professor you can contact, which helps me a lot when I have to ask for military-related extensions and the like.

I'm genuinely looking at Yale/HLS/Columbia, and the 50th percentile GPAs tend to be around a 3.9. With my LSAT and military, that should be ok. Not too worried about financial aid, I'd either go on active duty or get out and use the GI bill.

I have a lot to say about PSU World, is there a good place to put it all? I'm shocked it's not talked about more online. I went because it was the best online program I could find that conferred a "name brand" degree. ASU Online was the only other really good option I found (and I sometimes wish I'd gone there; they match Tuition Assistance, more majors, accelerated courses, etc.) Purdue is a name brand school, but Purdue Global is its own degree. PSU confers the same degrees regardless of campus (has to do with how they structure their branch campuses in PA) and is a slightly better rated school. Plus, if you have a military-related justification, you can drop classes at any point in the semester for a refund and not have it effect your GPA - huge deal for me.

The classes are hard compared to any of the online-type schools, even ASU and blow something like Purdue global or UMPI out of the water (other people at my unit attend both), especially in upper division. Lots of writing, and proctoring/group work can be difficult. The BS in political science is really hard, I swapped over to the BA despite the Spanish hurdle. The BS in poly sci requires PLSC 308 and 309, which are only offered in the fall and spring semesters respectively and are basically applied data/research courses, and then you need nine credits of a poly sci data/methodology course, which have 308/309 as pre-reqs and are quite hard. There's transfer credit that works for 308, but very little for 309 and they've never accepted any for the methodology courses.

This is because of how PSU handles transfer credit. They accept pretty much anything for courses, with the exception of some of those remedial courses on SOPHIA. The issue is that you need to submit a syllabus if it's never been evaluated, and it needs to match something like 80% of a course PSU (not PSU world, but anything in the entire catalog) offers. If it does, you get transfer credit for that exact course, and if it works for your major you're set. Otherwise, you get misc credit in the program area. That covers elective requirements, and maybe lower level courses for a minor or something like that, but they're largely useless. The residency requirement is only like 30 credits, but you're not going to be able to transfer in 90 credits that perfectly meet your degree requirements with any of the more difficult majors. 

Especially in upper level courses, I'd say at least half of the other people in my class are from UP (the main campus) and the other half is 50/50 branch campuses and WC. That's clearly part of why it's so hard - definitely expected to be easier than UP but sometimes you need to remind a Professor that they, say, can't only open the final for one day because you're in the middle of the Pacific at the moment. But when you do, they tend to be pretty accommodating, and if they're not the advising and military benefits people are amazing. With the exception of the chair of the plsc department, everyone I've interacted with has been great and accommodating, but man they're protective of that BS in poly sci. The only way to do it in less than three semesters would be to transfer in PLSC 308, take 309 the spring, then an overload of methodology courses the next fall.

No proctoring in most of my classes, but it's political science, pretty much everything is papers, and research, with a few open book quizzes and the like. Anything that I've needed proctored where I didn't have honorlock (no webcams on work computers) they've been OK with sending to my Education Services Officer and letting him proctor, but if honorlock works for you you'll be fine; that's mostly in the (extremely challenging but very highly rated nationally) IST and computer science type programs.

They used to cap tuition, but now if you take over 19 credits you pay extra. They waive a lot of the tuition for military, but it's not enough to match TA. Financial aid has been great though - Pell grant, TA, the military grant in aid, a scholarship I applied for, and merit based departmental grants have left me with tuition mostly paid for, and occasionally some extra.

Sent your SOPHIA transcript with parchment, getting them to look the courses up with the Credly transcript without course number is a pain. Definitely engage with your advisor and "transfer specialist," you can get things changed if you push it. You only have one semester to submit syllabi before they'll award general credit.

Tl;dr, name brand degree (again, same diploma as UP and mostly UP students) from a name brand school, but you put in the work for it, and have to jump through the same hoops another PSU student would have to. Advising, the financial aid office, the military affairs and pre-law advising people, and the amazing professors help a lot.

---

1. I'm in the BA of political science program but started in the BS in poly sci program. Will probably get a minor in History. The BS is a huge pain and more of a research/data analytics course than anything, and the BA requires the 12th credit level of foreign language. The foreign language courses are difficult, and they only offer Spanish, French, and I think Italian online - no latin, sign language, or the like.
   
2. How many courses are you taking per term? Five or six, but all upper division, and with work that's really all I can handle. Workload really depends on courses.
   
3. How many hours a week do you spend studying? 0. I'm really into political science lol; outside of maybe an hour of reading/course/week max, I haven't had to study at all.
   
4. How many papers and/or exams must you do per course?  Paper length? For a 400 level course, you'll probably have two or three 5-6 page big research papers, an 8 page final paper, and then a weekly or biweekly type paper/assignment/journal/etc. Then there's usually a weekly discussion board and other misc. stuff.
   Quizzes tend to be every couple of weeks with some classes having a midterm and final, but those are mostly in the lower division courses.
   
5. How are the quality of the courses? Very high, genuinely I think better than any other online program out there. It's not flashy, but it really feels like a Canvas based course at your average state school, which, being honest, is better than you're going to get at a lot of the schools talked about here. That can mean they're a lot of work, and they almost universally have a lot of reading, but it's great. Except intro to musical theatre, that class was amazing but all lectures, quizzes, and reading score.
   

[LevelUP]

Wow, what great feedback for PSU! PSU is my #1 recommendation if someone wants a high-rated school and a great program. ASU is my #2 choice, though it's a lot harder to hack.

For Public Speaking, maybe they would take Sophia's or Study.com Public Speaking?  Study.com has English 305: Advanced Technical Writing, so you could check to see if they take that.

Those courses I didn't see in the transfer tool (uploaded PDF)
https://public.lionpath.psu.edu/psp/CSPR...PT_NVT_TRN

12 credits of Foreign language is a lot for a degree requirement. Let us know how that works out.

[PreLawCoastie]

Wow, what great feedback for PSU! PSU is my #1 recommendation if someone wants a high-rated school and a great program. ASU is my #2 choice, though it's a lot harder to hack.

For Public Speaking, maybe they would take Sophia's or Study.com Public Speaking?  Study.com has English 305: Advanced Technical Writing, so you could check to see if they take that.

Those courses I didn't see in the transfer tool (uploaded PDF)
https://public.lionpath.psu.edu/psp/CSPR...PT_NVT_TRN

12 credits of Foreign language is a lot for a degree requirement. Let us know how that works out.

I doubt they take those public speaking courses, although they might accept the study.com Course I'm not sure. Generally get better luck for alt-credit after taking it instead of getting it pre-approved, and that process takes a while. They do seem to accept TECEPS for both the public speaking and technical writing, that's what I'm gonna try for.

ASU would definitely be better for actually taking courses there. IDK about PSU being easier to hack. It's definitely more transparent, and it's doable, but they're definitely institutionally slow. If stuff is already reviewed for a specific course, great, but trying to get a direct equivalency, especially for higher level courses, is really difficult. You'd have serious trouble hacking most of their majors because of that; specific courses tend to be required that are hard to transfer over.

Be really, really careful about those ACE credit transfers. So many are general courses, and they can be picky about things you wouldn't expect (sending the Credly transcript from Sophia bs actually ordering through Parchment can result in weirdness) Still, it's a great program, and goes to show even at a name-brand state school alt credit can be super helpful. Totally doable to knock out a degree in like 3 semesters with alt credit, CLEPS, and some TECEPS.

[Nemfis]

If you hurry up and sign up for the Computer Spanish Speaking ACTFL exam, you could do it before Dec 31st while the provisional ACE credit is still active. Depending on your fluency level, you could get up to 12 Credits. The reading exam is no doozie in my opinion (I only got Upper Intermediate but I was distracted during the exam), but I found the spoken exam to be easy. They ask you to just talk about various topics like if you will go to the cinema or complain about politicians for 90 seconds at a time. Results come in a few days later. It might satisfy your foreign language requirement without harming your GPA.

Hi! Can you tell me more about the ACTFL exam and provisional credits? I saw on the ACE website that ACTFL OPIc gives 12 credits for the superior level, and it's valid up to April 30th, 2024, but after getting my badge (Russian Superior), I don't see an ACE endorsement or credit recommendations.