State schools vs. other options

[MDela3]

University of the People seems like it is going to be the best option for me. I submitted my application, got approved, and set up a portal account. I want to transfer in a lot of credits. I have two of my RA (regionally accredited) college transcripts in PDF ready to send in, and just need to scan a 3rd to complete my first transfer credit evaluation request.

Hopefully the RA credit transfer is completed to my liking this month (August 2020). In the meantime I will begin taking TWO UotP courses (no cost up front), and work on some Saylor courses (no up-front costs either). If I get enough RA credits accepted I will send in an ACE trancript towards the end of the year to see how many ACE-recommended credits get approved.

My HOPE is that 72 credits transfer, leaving 16 UotP courses overall. I realize there is a lot left to do, and I still don't KNOW how much time and effort the UotP courses require. If it doesn't work out, at least posting the experience here will help others.

My projected cost to complete this is $2,750. I will post a summary of transfer eval when it's complete, then a projected path to degree completion.

It breaks my heart when people go for these for-profit private institutions instead of considering online state schools. There are so many other options for you. University of the People, WGU, Capella and many more are low quality institutions. As someone who was looking for an affordable online degree program with required accreditation and reputation, I came across many state schools who accomplished these three needs.

I am not sure what state you reside in but I work look into the online degree programs at your local public colleges.

[rachel83az]

Most state schools don't accept many ACE credits, if they even accept them at all, which makes them entirely too expensive for many students. There is nothing wrong with the quality of WGU; it's unfair to lump them in with UoPeople or Capella. If, for financial reasons, the options are no degree or a degree from somewhere like WGU, obviously students are going to choose WGU.

But I'm curious to know what state schools you found where you can get a Bachelor's degree for under 10k.

[jsd]

Neither UoPeople nor WGU are for-profit schools, what are you even talking about?

[MDela3]

Most state schools don't accept many ACE credits, if they even accept them at all, which makes them entirely too expensive for many students. There is nothing wrong with the quality of WGU; it's unfair to lump them in with UoPeople or Capella. If, for financial reasons, the options are no degree or a degree from somewhere like WGU, obviously students are going to choose WGU.

But I'm curious to know what state schools you found where you can get a Bachelor's degree for under 10k.

Depending on the OP's circumstances, career goals, state of residence and needs, it may be more optimal for them to get a degree online from a state school vs WGU. 

When you say most, could you please expound on the state schools you have come across that don't accept ACE credits? I am not saying that you are incorrect that there may be state schools that don't accept it, but I would never say "MOST" when there are a bunch of state schools with online degree programs.  Moreover, most state school with online degrees are affordable or free (Depending if you get federal aid, state aid, grants and scholarships). 

Well, I got both my AAS & BS for free because of Fed aid, the scholarships were pocket money. I went to CUNY SPS for my bachelors in Information Systems with a minor in Business. If I would of paid of pocket, it would have cost me less than 10k. Why? Well the tuition for the online degree programs are ridiculously cheap, students get waivers for summer and winter courses (when funding allows, it was available in 2020, not sure about 2022), students get waivers for ACE, CLEP, other prior work experience credits. Many of the classes for my degree had free or very low cost books and lastly, I was able to knock out a bunch of classes through getting my certs for free through CUNY SPS partnership with local career training programs. 

I am now working on my MBA in Info Security Management/Cybersecurity online at another state school and my employer is funding this. Even if my employer was not funding this, I could easily afford it since the tuition is so low for me. 

As for WGU, I can understand why people go for it. If a person live in an area that lacks employment opportunities, lacks college options or community or state college material is too difficult than I understand why people go to WGU. But, the ROI with WGU is very poor. I understand you will be upset by this. However, I have done tremendous research on WGU and it really lacks in many areas, IMO. My main reason for not going there is because the material has a lot errors and is outdated, according to my friends who went there say it just a high school re-education program with some career training modules and sometimes the modules have errors. Also, they have don't have ample career resources and opportunities for their students and WGU is frowned upon by some employers. It just wasn't for me. If you are interested, I am happy to post the data when I get a chance. 


** AAS in Computer Information Systems with a focus in Cybersecurity/Information Assurance - FLCC 2018 **
** BS in Information Systems, minor in Business - CUNY SPS 2020 **
** MBA in Info Security Management/Cybersecurity - USF 2023 **

CySA+, AWS Cloud Practitioner, CCNA and Associate of CISSP (CISSP pending until 2023 when I complete all my experience requirements.)

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Neither UoPeople nor WGU are for-profit schools, what are you even talking about?

Clearly, you did not read my post correctly.

Even if UoPeople and WGU are consider public universities, I would not attend their institution because of the poor quality of education, lack of resources, lack of opportunities and the poor branding in the market. But to each their own.

[rachel83az]

Granted, I realize that there are thousands of schools (and hundreds of state schools) out there and I haven't had a chance to look at every single one, but the ones I have seen tend to fall into one of a handful of categories:

1. They don't even accept CLEP exams. These seem to be fairly uncommon, but it does happen.
2. They accept some CLEP exams, but nothing else. Not even DSSTs. This seems to be the most common.
3. CLEPs are accepted, and maybe DSSTs. But possibly only if you were in the military.
4. CLEPs and DSSTs are accepted but that's it.
5. CLEPs, DSSTs, and a weirdly specific mix of really old ACP ACE credits MIGHT be considered. Only accepting Saylor ACE credits seems to be common here.
6. If it's ACE and it fits into your degree program, there's a good chance that it'll be accepted. It may not be, but at least you're not immediately shut down.

Note: I don't count CLEPs and DSSTs as ACE credits. They are alternate, but they're not ACE.

Also coupled with the above is the ridiculously low transfer limit. A lot of schools limit you to 30 or 60 credits in transfer regardless of source. It doesn't matter if these are CC credits, ACE credits, or what. If a school does accept ACE, but you can only transfer in 60 credits, and you get charged $300/credit, you're still looking at $18k for your degree. And that's before assorted fees and textbook purchases. Business Insider says that the average tuition at a state school is almost $11k/year, which would work out to about $330/credit. https://www.businessinsider.com/personal...ge-tuition

If you can afford $20k for a degree, great! But that's not that cheap.

[jsd]

I didn't read your post wrong, you referred to WGU, UoPeople, and Capella as for-profit institutions. You were wrong, as only Capella is for profit of those three.

It's also not clear why you even brought up Capella, no one else in the thread was discussing it and this forum would generally not recommend it.

Everyone here seems to agree that in general UoPeople is suboptimal. You'll have a much more mixed opinion about WGU. Depending on what you're trying to get out of the school, it's reputation could very well not be a good option for you. But it's not for-profit.

[MDela3]

Granted, I realize that there are thousands of schools (and hundreds of state schools) out there and I haven't had a chance to look at every single one, but the ones I have seen tend to fall into one of a handful of categories:

1. They don't even accept CLEP exams. These seem to be fairly uncommon, but it does happen.
2. They accept some CLEP exams, but nothing else. Not even DSSTs. This seems to be the most common.
3. CLEPs are accepted, and maybe DSSTs. But possibly only if you were in the military.
4. CLEPs and DSSTs are accepted but that's it.
5. CLEPs, DSSTs, and a weirdly specific mix of really old ACP ACE credits MIGHT be considered. Only accepting Saylor ACE credits seems to be common here.
6. If it's ACE and it fits into your degree program, there's a good chance that it'll be accepted. It may not be, but at least you're not immediately shut down.

Note: I don't count CLEPs and DSSTs as ACE credits. They are alternate, but they're not ACE.

Also coupled with the above is the ridiculously low transfer limit. A lot of schools limit you to 30 or 60 credits in transfer regardless of source. It doesn't matter if these are CC credits, ACE credits, or what. If a school does accept ACE, but you can only transfer in 60 credits, and you get charged $300/credit, you're still looking at $18k for your degree. And that's before assorted fees and textbook purchases. Business Insider says that the average tuition at a state school is almost $11k/year, which would work out to about $330/credit. https://www.businessinsider.com/personal...ge-tuition

If you can afford $20k for a degree, great! But that's not that cheap.

Thanks for the info. 

I understand your dilemma. But, could you please post the schools you mention that you seen? I would love to look into this further. 

Also, I would not depend on a Business Insider article as a reliable source. Journalism such as Business Insider is often riddled with biases. As they often cherry pick information to build their stance. However, I did look over the College Board report that Business Insider cites throughout the article and noticed that the data they provide is gear towards students who are attending an in person (Brick & Mortar) degree programs and they include information such as room and board in some of their data. These two pieces of data would not be applicable to students who attend state schools online. Hence, this article is irrelevant to the cost of state schools online degree programs.

Also, many online programs at state schools have lower cost because 1.) attending online means less in person resources are needed (housing, food courts, etc...) to provide the online student community. 2.) Many state schools online programs have a set low tuition fee whether you are a resident of the state or not. 3.) State schools online programs, have scholarship programs and other Credit for Non-Collegiate Learning opportunities that lowers the time and cost of a degree to nearly nothing depending on the person's circumstances. 

I know that at CUNY SPS and many other CUNY/SUNY online bachelor's degree programs require an associate's degree before applying to their program. Taking this into account, CUNY SPS is still far more affordable and valuable than WGU.

I recommend looking through this report it is quite insightful. You keep saying things like, "If you can afford $20k for a degree, great!" However, this report is not applicable to state school students who attend an online programs. Especially, the ones who get financial aid. 

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I didn't read your post wrong, you referred to WGU, UoPeople, and Capella as for-profit institutions. You were wrong, as only Capella is for profit of those three.

It's also not clear why you even brought up Capella, no one else in the thread was discussing it and this forum would generally not recommend it.

Everyone here seems to agree that in general UoPeople is suboptimal. You'll have a much more mixed opinion about WGU. Depending on what you're trying to get out of the school, it's reputation could very well not be a good option for you. But it's not for-profit.

You clearly have poor reading comprehension skills. Let's break down my post.

It breaks my heart when people go for these for-profit private institutions instead of considering online state schools. There are so many other options for you. University of the People, WGU, Capella and many more are low quality institutions.

First sentence no mention of WGU and UoPeople. 

The only mention or reference is made in the last sentence where I clearly state they are "low quality institutions" not for-profit institutions.

[rachel83az]

Example from each category:

1. I have not seen a state school that fits here, true. But it's not uncommon among private not-for-profit schools. MIT is a notorious example of probably not even accepting community college work.
2. Oklahoma State appears to falls here, unless you are active military: https://www.langston.edu/academics/servi...fer-credit
3. Alabama State University - https://www.alasu.edu/undergraduate/admi...admissions Kent State; it's not 100% clear if they'll accept DSSTs from students who were never in the military - https://www.kent.edu/credittransfer/cred...nsfer-faqs and https://www.kent.edu/credittransfer/military-students
4. University of Florida - https://admissions.ufl.edu/apply/transfer/course-credit
5. Northern Arizona University - https://alternativecreditproject.nau.edu/ NAU only just BARELY accepts CLEP exams, but they belong here because they do accept a handful of ACE credits. There is also a CUNY or SUNY (I forget which; there's a thread around here about this somewhere) school that only accepts CLEPs and Saylor. Maybe DSSTs? I forget. But nothing else.
5a. COSC - exists in a sort of in-between spot. They only accept courses from certain providers, but at least their lists are kept up to date.
6. UMPI, TESU

I am willing to grant that at least some state schools are going to have exceptions where some students might be able to get a one-off exemption to transfer in some credit that would otherwise not be allowed (I.E., school doesn't normally accept ACE but is willing to accept a Study.com or Saylor course or two as free electives to meet graduation requirements). But most schools are NOT going to fall under category 6 of accepting "anything" as long as it fits into your degree plan. Most are going to have a stated policy to only accept CLEPs/DSSTs and that's it.

That's why people come here to this forum.

Their local schools are neither alt-credit friendly nor are they cheap/affordable.

[MDela3]

Example from each category:

1. I have not seen a state school that fits here, true. But it's not uncommon among private not-for-profit schools. MIT is a notorious example of probably not even accepting community college work.
2. Oklahoma State appears to falls here, unless you are active military: https://www.langston.edu/academics/servi...fer-credit
3. Alabama State University - https://www.alasu.edu/undergraduate/admi...admissions Kent State; it's not 100% clear if they'll accept DSSTs from students who were never in the military - https://www.kent.edu/credittransfer/cred...nsfer-faqs and https://www.kent.edu/credittransfer/military-students
4. University of Florida - https://admissions.ufl.edu/apply/transfer/course-credit
5. Northern Arizona University - https://alternativecreditproject.nau.edu/ NAU only just BARELY accepts CLEP exams, but they belong here because they do accept a handful of ACE credits. There is also a CUNY or SUNY (I forget which; there's a thread around here about this somewhere) school that only accepts CLEPs and Saylor. Maybe DSSTs? I forget. But nothing else.
5a. COSC - exists in a sort of in-between spot. They only accept courses from certain providers, but at least their lists are kept up to date.
6. UMPI, TESU

I am willing to grant that at least some state schools are going to have exceptions where some students might be able to get a one-off exemption to transfer in some credit that would otherwise not be allowed (I.E., school doesn't normally accept ACE but is willing to accept a Study.com or Saylor course or two as free electives to meet graduation requirements). But most schools are NOT going to fall under category 6 of accepting "anything" as long as it fits into your degree plan. Most are going to have a stated policy to only accept CLEPs/DSSTs and that's it.

That's why people come here to this forum.

Their local schools are neither alt-credit friendly nor are they cheap/affordable.

MIT does accept transfers from community colleges. As for the credits transferring, I can't speak on that because I never attended there, nor do I have present knowledge on it. I would have do more research on this before forming an opinion. 

Based on the link you provided, Langston seems to be open to transferring credits of all types. 

Alabama State accepts all types of credits too. But, it is maxed at 45 credits in total. 

The University of Florida link you provided is not detailed regarding what they accept. This one is more accurate in detail https://catalog.ufl.edu/UGRD/academic-ad...am-credit/ and this too is maxed at 45 credits

As for CUNY/SUNY they accept all types of credits. I know for a fact, because I had CLEP exam credits, and many others that were transferred over with no problems. I graduated from SUNY FLCC for my associates. https://www.flcc.edu/transfer-credits/

CUNY SPS is where I got my bachelors and they are super supportive of non-traditional students with non-traditional paths. They are the one's who knocked out a shit load of courses just because of my work experience, IT certifications at the time (CCNA & CYSA+), my associates degree and my CLEP exams. I was missing a language course and my advisor is the one who told me to take a CLEP exam for it. I literally only needed 8-9 classes for my bachelors and three courses for my minor. 

 https://sps.cuny.edu/academics/credit-prior-learning and they partner with local career training programs to help their students get industry leading certifications for FREE while getting college credits. https://sps.cuny.edu/academic-partners

CUNY SPS is part of the CUNY system so students from SPS qualify for the same internships, fellowships, and opportunities as other CUNY campuses. I definitely felt very spoiled at CUNY SPS. CUNY SPS accepts students from all over the nation and now internationally. But, I strongly believe that CUNY SPS will be optimal for those who reside within the neighboring states, NJ, CT, PA... So, they can have local access to their employment and internship opportunities in the city. They have major connections. But, there are many working RN students who come from other states too and go to CUNY SPS online. CUNY SPS has a great Nursing Informatics & Nursing Leadership program online. 

I am willing to grant that at least some state schools are going to have exceptions where some students might be able to get a one-off exemption to transfer in some credit that would otherwise not be allowed (I.E., school doesn't normally accept ACE but is willing to accept a Study.com or Saylor course or two as free electives to meet graduation requirements). But most schools are NOT going to fall under category 6 of accepting "anything" as long as it fits into your degree plan. Most are going to have a stated policy to only accept CLEPs/DSSTs and that's it.

That's why people come here to this forum.

Their local schools are neither alt-credit friendly nor are they cheap/affordable.

It depends on what are their local schools and what their circumstances are.

I noticed people come on this forum for many reasons and with limited research ability and only get information about degrees from 3 college options only. When in reality, they have more options and opportunities beyond those three choices. 

Also, if people are unable to afford college that would mean they are poor or low income. Hence, they should be applying for federal aid which fully covers community college education and state schools (in person or online.) 

From some of the post that I have come across here, some hop college to college where they are collecting different credits in different areas which leads me to think they burned through their fin aid and maxed out their credit without earning an actual degree. 
I am not saying this is the case for all that are within this forum. But, I noticed a few in the last week. 


My advice is: 

Get the game plan together. Be strategic. I did tremendous amount of research on community colleges in my state. Picked one, FLCC. Got the outline for the CIS online degree program and then started planning out my CLEP exams based on the CIS online degree program outline. Gathered a LE (Life Experience) portfolio and requested a review for credits. Did the same thing when I transferred to CUNY SPS.

[rachel83az]

I did look up MIT policies before posting: https://firstyear.mit.edu/academics-expl...er-credit/

MIT departments may grant credit for study at other colleges and universities if the subjects are substantially equivalent to those taught at MIT & the grade earned meets MIT standards. However, each department sets its own policies and reviews each request individually.

Note: MAY grant. Not WILL grant. For at least math & science, you have to provide a ton of materials to prove that the "subjects are substantially equivalent" and you may still have to take an exam of some sort besides. Unofficial rumor has it that they rarely agree that the "subjects are substantially equivalent". I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but you can't just go to community college and then expect to transfer right into MIT, even if you have a 4.0 GPA.

I found the thread I mentioned in my last post: https://www.degreeforum.net/mybb/Thread-...out-of-120 CLEPs and Saylor only. No other ACE credit aside from Saylor. It's not a terrible option, but a lot of students aren't able to complete CLEP exams and Saylor isn't exactly known for being coherent.

Again, CLEPs also do NOT count as ACE credit.

Also, if people are unable to afford college that would mean they are poor or low income. Hence, they should be applying for federal aid which fully covers community college education and state schools (in person or online.)

Untrue. This is only guaranteed if you take out loans. I just googled and the full Pell Grant amount is currently about $6500/year. This works out to slightly less than $220/credit. It also does not take into account books and the other fees that CCs tack on. There are a lot of local CCs that will eat up all your FAFSA money, and you still have to pay fees & whatnot. Oakton, for instance, charges $136.25/credit. Then there is an online course fee of $50 (I'm not sure if they charge this right now if you want to take in-person classes but cannot due to partial campus closures), a $15 per-course registration fee, $3/credit activity fee, and then a lot of courses charge a "lab" or other per-course fee between $10-50. So, we've got $660/credit from financial aid. Tuition eats up 408.75 of that. $251.25 left. $9 activity + $50 online + $15 registration = another $74 down the drain. $177.25 left. From past glances through the catalog, most courses seem to have a fee in the range of $25 - even if there isn't a "lab" component. You've got around $150 left from the Pell Grant and that might just cover your textbook and leave you with some pocket change.

But Oakton is one of the cheaper CCs. Tuition is pretty cheap and they don't have that many fees. $150-200/credit at CCs for local residents isn't uncommon. Anything above Oakton's price point and there is no way that financial aid will do more than partially cover your education. Unless you take out loans.

From some of the post that I have come across here, some hop college to college where they are collecting different credits in different areas which leads me to think they burned through their fin aid and maxed out their credit without earning an actual degree.

There are a lot of reasons why people might have hopped from college to college. Everyone can take out loans, but not everyone qualifies for Pell Grants. Promised parental support might have dissolved, leaving students stuck with the option of quitting school or trying to transfer to a cheaper school and pay for everything themselves. That doesn't always work out.

If you're only able to transfer in 45 credits and the remainder are $300-500/credit, you're looking at a degree costing $22,500-$37,500. Students come to this forum because they don't want to be $10,000-30,000 in student loan debt.

It's great that you were able to get your CUNY degree so cheap. But we do have students who come here because CUNY/SUNY is just not affordable.