No Child Left Behind?

[Professor_Adam]

Is this program the miserable failure the media makes it seem like, or is there more to the story? What is it about this program that has people so upset?

[Gary]

Is this program the miserable failure the media makes it seem like, or is there more to the story? What is it about this program that has people so upset?

Pass.......

[cookderosa]

Is this program the miserable failure the media makes it seem like, or is there more to the story? What is it about this program that has people so upset?

>>

LOL It's the unions (teachers) who are upset and have whined to parents who (may) have nilly-willy accepted whatever the teachers have said about it...so tend to be blindly supportive. (but, parents "have" to support their child's teachers- they are heavily indebted to the school system) Until this program, teachers had solid job security. This is the FIRST and only time that academic standards were tied to public teacher/public school employment and funding. It makes the school system function more like a capitalistic society. I don't think administration is up in arms, they have good job security, but the teachers who don't produce results are going to have consequences.

Before you say I'm "anti-teacher" you have to know I'm NOT. My immediate family has several teaches and public school workers- including a middle school principal and librarian. We have lots of public school employees around my dinner table. If teachers only had to teach the 3 R's, this wouldn't be an issue (maybe) but the ridiculous sub-subjects and social service role have diluted and diffused the subject of teaching greatly. In homeschool circles, you'll find a lot of parents who point out studies that indicate only x number of minutes per day spent on a subject in public school. We can ask why, but at the end of the day, the students are not getting what they need- which is CONTACT hours in math and reading. End result= poor academic test scores.

[Professor_Adam]

>>

LOL It's the unions (teachers) who are upset and have whined to parents who (may) have nilly-willy accepted whatever the teachers have said about it...so tend to be blindly supportive. (but, parents "have" to support their child's teachers- they are heavily indebted to the school system) Until this program, teachers had solid job security. This is the FIRST and only time that academic standards were tied to public teacher/public school employment and funding. It makes the school system function more like a capitalistic society. I don't think administration is up in arms, they have good job security, but the teachers who don't produce results are going to have consequences.

Before you say I'm "anti-teacher" you have to know I'm NOT. My immediate family has several teaches and public school workers- including a middle school principal and librarian. We have lots of public school employees around my dinner table. If teachers only had to teach the 3 R's, this wouldn't be an issue (maybe) but the ridiculous sub-subjects and social service role have diluted and diffused the subject of teaching greatly. In homeschool circles, you'll find a lot of parents who point out studies that indicate only x number of minutes per day spent on a subject in public school. We can ask why, but at the end of the day, the students are not getting what they need- which is CONTACT hours in math and reading. End result= poor academic test scores.

I think homeschooling and/or private schooling definitely trump public school education. My kids were in private school for a few years and when they went into the equivalent grade at a public school they were light years ahead of their peers. My two oldest were both "promoted" one grade higher upon entering public school. This was in Texas.

[cookderosa]

I think homeschooling and/or private schooling definitely trump public school education. My kids were in private school for a few years and when they went into the equivalent grade at a public school they were light years ahead of their peers. My two oldest were both "promoted" one grade higher upon entering public school. This was in Texas.

>>

I think they are entirely different things with different resources and different goals. I think it's apples vs oranges. I didn't mean to bring it into this subject, only to point out that the contact hour issue is talked about a lot in among home-schoolers.

[Namivie]

Is this program the miserable failure the media makes it seem like, or is there more to the story? What is it about this program that has people so upset?

not sure why my post posted twice (I must've hit something wrong) -- sorry.

[Namivie]

Is this program the miserable failure the media makes it seem like, or is there more to the story? What is it about this program that has people so upset?

ok, I'll bite. Understand that I'm looking at this from a parent standpoint, and a special education aide who is hoping to be a teacher next year.

On paper, no child behind looks great. Children will be expected to perform on grade level in english, math, science, social studies and will be able to communicate well in writing. Schools will be held accountable for student's scores, and children will have to take standardized tests (subjects will be alternated from year to year). Different states have implemented the standardized testing. In Texas, the kids are given 3 opportunities to pass the testing. If they can't pass, then typically they are not promoted to the next year.

In reality what this causes is that the teachers are so worried about the test scores that they only teach to the test. In math, this works pretty well. The basics are the basics. In social studies and science, it doesn't work as well. The teacher's are focusing on what's on the test, and it may not necessarily match up to everything that the teachers want to cover. I recently saw a science class get really excited about volcanoes, and the kids were asking great questions. When I was a student (subject to standardized tests but not NCLB), many of my teachers probably would have taken several additional days to explore the subject more in depth. This teacher couldn't do this because he was concerned that he wouldn't be able to cover all the material that the students would need for the test. The best that he could do was promise the kids that he would block off a day or two after the testing to revisit the subject. Being able to spend a couple of extra days in a subject might have ignited a curiousity and passion in a student to learn more about the volcanoes.

One of the reasons that teachers & administrators scream about NCLB is that the federal government mandated changes in education without funding them. I can understand that being unfair. Parents scream about NCLB because teachers teach to the test, and kids are under extreme pressure to perform on tests. Some children are poor test takers, and nothing is going to change that. Should they be penalized by failing when they're doing fantastic work in the classroom?

If NCLB had been implemented better, it probably would work. Let me give you an example of what I mean. As it is now, schools give benchmark practice tests several times throughout the year, with a "real" test around March/April that the kids must pass. Wouldn't it be better instead to administer the test at the beginning of the year to give a snapshot of where individual kids are performing, and then again at the end of the year and measure rather the student improved over the course of the year?

Each state is allowed to implement how they want the tests to be considered. In Texas, we've done it in the worst way possible. We have children who are great performers that are so stressed by the tests that they literally are close to nervous breakdowns.

IMHO, NCLB gets an F in Texas.

[cookderosa]

federal government mandated changes in education without funding them.>>

The trouble comes down to time on task. The nature of a classroom setting makes it difficult to increase student's time on task- it's just a truth.
(but it doesn't cost anything)

[Lindagerr]

The problems are many and varied, but there are a lot of plusses to the system as well. I say this as the parent of 2 children who went through school with learning difficulties and 2 children who went through school on the gifted end. ( I only have 3 children 1 is both learning diabled in some areas and gifted in other areas.) I also say this from the other side as a substitute teacher now.

I could go into a long explanations of the pros and cons of this program, but the quick answer is all children are different and trying to teach all children in the same way no matter what their abilities doesn't work well for anyone.

[Namivie]

I could go into a long explanations of the pros and cons of this program, but the quick answer is all children are different and trying to teach all children in the same way no matter what their abilities doesn't work well for anyone.

Well said Linda.