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N.J. Governor Wants to Merge Thomas Edison Into Rutgers
#71
Applied Friday even though I need to CLEP out a few more classes. Hopefully a new academic policy doesn't create problems for me and delay my progress. Rutgers, hmmm That could be alright..
"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." Al Einstein


finishing up and hoping to start a masters before the end of the year

TESC ~ BSAST technical studies in Building Design (12 Civil Engineering courses to go and "DSST" counseling to go)

TESC~ AAS Electrical Mechanical Systems and maintenance
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#72
RUTurbo Wrote:creationstory - I'd like to ask if you have any empirical data to suggest your claims or whether you are just using your personal feelings on the matter to bash Rutgers as well as myself?? This discussion is about Gov. Christie's desire to merge RUTGERS NEW BRUNSWICK - PISCATAWAY and TESC. I am totally aware that Rutgers is a system school - I am a full-time student there! Camden and Newark are separate but equal both have Law Schools, Newark has a nursing school and their alums are treated no different than a New Brunswick school. Rutgers has accommodated me as a NTS accepting 12 CCAF credits (although my situation is different due to my AFSC, - Linguist - Urdu, Farsi), and 48 via CLEP/DSST.

I do not know whether or not you have taken courses at RU - however if you have than are experiences are vastly different. In my first semester I took 2 courses taught and graded by TA's - both were lower level requirements taught in lecture halls. Every other single class I have taken has had less than 25 students and the vast majority having 18 or less.

As for your statement to Rutgers is just keeping pace - if this data is just keeping pace what is everyone else doing??

Eleven of Rutgers' graduate departments are ranked by the National Research Council in the top 25 among all universities: Philosophy (2nd), Geology Ranked 9th Nationally based on NSF funding 9th ,Geography (13th), Statistics (17th), English (17th), Mathematics (19th), Art History (20th), Physics (20th), History (20th) Comparative Literature (22nd), French (22nd), and Materials Science Engineering (25th).

According to U.S. News & World Report, in the top 25 among all universities: Food Science (2nd), Library Science (6th), Drama/Theater (12th), Mathematics (16th), English (18th), History (19th, with the subspecialty of African-American History ranked 4th and Women’s History ranked 1st), Applied Mathematics (21st) and Physics (24th).

The Philosophy Department ranked first in 2002–04 tied with New York University and Princeton University, and second in 2004–06 (NYU was first, Princeton 3rd, Oxford 4th) in the Philosophical Gourmet's biennial report on Philosophy programs in the English-speaking world.

In 2003, the Wall Street Journal conducted a study of the undergraduate institutions that most frequently feed students placements at elite professional and graduate programs, such as Yale and Harvard; Rutgers was ranked 20th in the rankings they compiled for public university's.

Even Forbes Magazine weighed has an opinion on RU, Forbes ranked Rutgers as being the 20th best public university in the United States for "getting rich," as judged by its students' median salaries upon graduation.

Even Rutgers - Newark gets to join in the fun! According to U.S. News & World Report, in the top 25 among all universities: The Division of Global Affairs (DGA) Ph.D. program at Rutgers University-Newark was ranked fifth in the nation in the Benchmarking Academic Excellence survey of Top Universities in Social and Behavioral Sciences Disciplines in the combined category of International Affairs and Development for 2006 - 2007.

As to me and law school - my LSAC GPA is 4.0 a LSAC 4.0 is the same as any other 4.0 whether it's from Harvard or TESC - If you went to an extremely prestigious UG such as HYP (Harvard, Yale, Princeton) you may get a slight bump when ADCOM's review your package in the end law schools care about numbers because they must report them to LSAC and those numbers have a significant factor in their rankings. LSAT is another beast, I'm currently in a PowerScore class - I have taken over 10 real LSAT's as part of the course and I'm averaging a 174 - If I bomb it and get a 158 I'll still be sitting pretty at RU -Newark or Camden for free because they are Yellow Ribbon participants. As a member of the NJ Air Guard RU has not asked me for a single penny - I register for courses buy my books and show up - it's great! So I still have 36 months of Post-9/11 GI bill eligibility remaining.

I feel for the Michigan State grad who cant find a job - I feel for their situation -however that's the current state of the legal market in this economy. Law Schools are graduating approximately 20,000 more students then is necessary, over-saturating the market. The fact of the matter is if you graduate at or below median at a school that is not in the prestigious T-14 you will not have an easy time finding work. Graduating a Tier 3 school such as Michigan State in a region dominated by several T-14 schools (Michigan, UChicago, Northwestern) only compounds to the problem.

Anyway enough thread hijacking - this is about a TESC RU - New Brunswick merger. Because of the facts I have stated above and in previous posts I believe it will be a good thing for TESC and NJ residents!

GREAT DATA... you keep naming all these wonderful statistics and marketing material advertising your school... but in the end Rutgers is keeping pace with all the universitites around it.....
how so?

ok.. looking at your DATA.... you keep saying how RUTGERS is ranked such and such or this department and that department....

when you start using data from different sources.. so much changes.

one persons opinion may say that this place is ok.. another persons opinion may say it is GREAT! you do understand.. that it is opinion!

next.. you are ranking RUTGERS in very specific areas....top 20 public universities... or graduate departments..

you fail to consider how many public schools have this department or how many graduate programs have this major...

when you start making for more specific conditions you make the number of participants smaller until you can make a school sound like its damn near the best!

example... cars.. top 10 mid range price (eliminated high price and low price cars).. family cars (eliminated sports cars, coupes, wagons, suvs, trucks) by a foreign company (elminated domestic) built in america (eliminated those foreign cars built in a foreign nation)...

next you are using different years.... all major schools are improving.. Rutgers will never ever ever be UC Berkely or UCLA or RICE or MIT or Stanford or Cal-Tech... it is fighting to be around the level of lets say.. Stony Brook, or Univ of Maryland or Florida State or Univ Michigan...

a 4.0 from school A.. is not a 4.0 from school B... if that were the case.. they wouldn't have the LSAT's at all!!!!

if they took a look at your course conversions.. they will see how many courses you have with a grade.. it shows it on your LSAC report...

so 60 credits with no grade attached to it and 60 credits with a grade attached to it vs 120 credits with a grade attached to it...

you also haven't considered that they look at major.. someone who had a 4.0 with a philosophy or biochemistry major vs someone with a 4.0 with a criminal justice degree (historically an easy major)..

even if you make it to a top law school.. you are competing against students who very smart..so who is to say you will make the top 10% of students or make law review? you can go to a great law school.. and still not get to a top firm... so where does that take you? a store fron law office?

taking a practice lsat with no pressure vs an actual lsat with full pressure are two very different things... good luck with the test...

in the end.. college teaches how to critically think for yourself.. that is the point of taking different courses in different areas.. some people simply learn info and spit it back out... others absorb it and keep it forever... when you hear about statistics.. really read it carefully.. and don't gloss over key details!

i'd rather pay to go to princeton or columbia via my GI Bill than go to Rutgers for free and a t-14 law school where i didnt make bar review...
you open up more doors socially and professionally going to an ivy league school... than an average undergrad and a good law school where u weren't at the top...
DSST Environment & Race to Save Humanity *  51/80 Clep CIS  63/80
College Math  66/80 * DSST Business Law II  -  No Pass
Principles of Mgmt  61/80 * A/I Lit  51/80 retest 61/80
Social Sciences and History -  66/80  -  A * Freshman Composition  -  60/80
Intro to Computers  426 -Current System - p/f = pass * Intro to Modern Middle East Studies -  61/80
Human Cultural Geography  -  61/80 * US History I  - A   -61/80
US History II - A  68/80 * Civil War  -  A   57/80
Intro to World Religions  - A  68/80 * Intro to Bus Law -  64/80    A
Public Speaking 55/80  A * MIS 429/500 * Statistics 459/500 * MacroEconomics  57/80
MicroEconomics   53/80 (ran out no money in meter) * Criminal Justice 418/500
English Comp with Essay 58/80 * Personal Finance 406/500 (Ran thru IC once & test once... 40 minutes/98 questions.. close call) 
Principle of Supervision -  436/500 * Clep American Government 67/80  
FEMA's Completed - 49 (sorry i'm addicted to them).

BA - Criminal Justice - Central State University
AAS - Computer Science - TESU
AAS - BOG - Info Tech - Pierpont
ΦΘΚ, Alumna Member
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#73
creationstory - DEBATE FAIL - you lost all credibility when you said you'd rather go to Princeton - have fun there!! You'd be the first graduate EVER!! LOL Princeton hasn't graduated a law class since the before the Civil War!!! Also a LSAC 4.0 from any school is a LSAC 4.0 plain and simple! Maybe you should use google.com and learn bout the Law School Admissions process or visit one of the many law school forums! And who said anything about wanting a Top Firm job?? My interest in law has will not be found in any V-5 V250 firm. I plan on going into Public Interest and in my very specific case whether I graduate from Columbia or Cooley the goal is to get a JD not to get rich. As far as you continuing on about rankings - Rutgers is currently ranked number 66 in the nation out of 2913 4 year degree granting institutions, the schools you mentioned all in the Top-25 with UCLA being the lowest at 24. Using my fancy Rutgers math that ranking puts Rutgers in the 99.92 percentile - not to shabby. For you to argue anything other than that Rutgers is a Tier 1 first class research university is ridiculous. Your argument boils down to this - to use your car analogy - Rutgers is a kick butt fully loaded top of the line Mercedes - however its not a Rolls Royce so therefore it can't be great. Blatant anti-Rutgers trolling as many on the law-school forums would put it! And you still fail to mention why this merger is bad for any reason.
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#74
RUTurbo Wrote:creationstory - DEBATE FAIL - you lost all credibility when you said you'd rather go to Princeton - have fun there!! You'd be the first graduate EVER!! LOL Princeton hasn't graduated a law class since the before the Civil War!!! Also a LSAC 4.0 from any school is a LSAC 4.0 plain and simple! Maybe you should use google.com and learn bout the Law School Admissions process or visit one of the many law school forums! And who said anything about wanting a Top Firm job?? My interest in law has will not be found in any V-5 V250 firm. I plan on going into Public Interest and in my very specific case whether I graduate from Columbia or Cooley the goal is to get a JD not to get rich. As far as you continuing on about rankings - Rutgers is currently ranked number 66 in the nation out of 2913 4 year degree granting institutions, the schools you mentioned all in the Top-25 with UCLA being the lowest at 24. Using my fancy Rutgers math that ranking puts Rutgers in the 99.92 percentile - not to shabby. For you to argue anything other than that Rutgers is a Tier 1 first class research university is ridiculous. Your argument boils down to this - to use your car analogy - Rutgers is a kick butt fully loaded top of the line Mercedes - however its not a Rolls Royce so therefore it can't be great. Blatant anti-Rutgers trolling as many on the law-school forums would put it! And you still fail to mention why this merger is bad for any reason.


lol... sorry you were defeated...

princeton or rutgers undergrad... lol.. u failed! i never ever mentioned princeton having a law school! i said a princeton undergrad is worth more than a rutgers undergrad with an good law school...

i know the law school admissions process quite well... apparently you know a lot.. but not a whole lot! trust me.. i am quite familiar

here let me show you something..

GPA related to academic major. Some majors are believed to be harder than others. A law school applicant who earned a 3.0 GPA in a very challenging major (e.g., physics) is not being treated the same as an applicant who received a 3.0 GPA in a major that is not believed to be very challenging. Some undergraduate majors have limited admission, which means that a higher GPA is required for admission to the program, but then higher grades are given in courses..

Pre-Law Studies - Admissions


if you think a 4.0 is a 4.0.. u really should do more research.. that is the same reason why they created the SAT's.. to tell the difference between average students and great students.. something standardized!

and you are still using some ranking system... 2913 in the UNITED STATES.. right? so there are at least 66 school ranked far higher than RUTGERS...

but when i looked at top 100 national universities in the nation.. rutgers was nowhere to be found.. whats up with that my brother?

National Universities Rankings - Best Colleges - Education - US News and World Report

are you saying that rutgers with all that great rankings you speak of is better than any of these public institutions?


1. University of California–Berkeley
2. University of Virginia
3. Univ. of California–Los Angeles
3. University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
5. U. of North Carolina–Chapel Hill
6. College of William and Mary (VA)
7. Univ. of California–San Diego
8. U. of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
8. Univ. of Wisconsin–Madison
10. Georgia Institute of Technology
10. Pennsylvania State Univ.
12. University of California–Davis


seriously!!! come on! i guess that MERCEDES has a lot of competition!!!! or maybe ur rutgers degree is a E class mercedes.. while those other schools are G Wagon Mercedes! But wait... those are public institutions.. we haven't even looked at private institutions.. lol.. yeah.. yawn...

so rutgers is a tier one research institution.. again you've eliminated many many other institutions.. like non research institutions.. which can easily be
75% of all colleges and universities.. rutgers is 3 campus'




i've been on this forum far longer than you have and have been a contributing member.. so i am no troll! you are the troll spreading rutgers propaganda!

TESC serves a specific population and for a specific need.. there is no guarantee that if or when Rutgers does take over it will still service this specific need. Excelsior does not accept certain credits that TESC does with no issue...
DSST Environment & Race to Save Humanity *  51/80 Clep CIS  63/80
College Math  66/80 * DSST Business Law II  -  No Pass
Principles of Mgmt  61/80 * A/I Lit  51/80 retest 61/80
Social Sciences and History -  66/80  -  A * Freshman Composition  -  60/80
Intro to Computers  426 -Current System - p/f = pass * Intro to Modern Middle East Studies -  61/80
Human Cultural Geography  -  61/80 * US History I  - A   -61/80
US History II - A  68/80 * Civil War  -  A   57/80
Intro to World Religions  - A  68/80 * Intro to Bus Law -  64/80    A
Public Speaking 55/80  A * MIS 429/500 * Statistics 459/500 * MacroEconomics  57/80
MicroEconomics   53/80 (ran out no money in meter) * Criminal Justice 418/500
English Comp with Essay 58/80 * Personal Finance 406/500 (Ran thru IC once & test once... 40 minutes/98 questions.. close call) 
Principle of Supervision -  436/500 * Clep American Government 67/80  
FEMA's Completed - 49 (sorry i'm addicted to them).

BA - Criminal Justice - Central State University
AAS - Computer Science - TESU
AAS - BOG - Info Tech - Pierpont
ΦΘΚ, Alumna Member
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#75
This article/opinion is not the be all end all, but it does bring up some interesting points about mergers, at least from academia's standpoint. http://www.congressweb.com/aascu/docfile...ergers.pdf I would expect a similar discussion from TESC once the initial shock wears off....going beyond the sound bites and making a case by pointing to similar unsuccessful attempts at mergers by other states.

The article references the Middle State Commision's guidelines for handling mergers, specifically students needs, staffing etc...the document spells out what you would expect to happen as a current student caught in the cross fire. The recommendations are all reassuring. Middle States Commission on Higher Education
Look under section III Closing or Merging a Postsecondary Institution (Word)

NJ residents.....regarding the process for voting on the Governors budget proposal.....it appears that previous NJ annual budgets were typically dissected during the spring and voted on by the end of June. Is this accurate?
Excelsior - BS Business 2008
Son #1 TESC BSBA Computer Information Systems completed June 2010
Son #2 TESC BA Computer Science completed November 2010 Currently in Florida State (FSU) Masters CS program and loving it
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#76
Quote:Applied Friday even though I need to CLEP out a few more classes. Hopefully a new academic policy doesn't create problems for me and delay my progress. Rutgers, hmmm That could be alright..

Congrats....a quick word of advice, TESC is painfully slow in showing transcripts received and putting together/updating student evaluations. If you don't expect a quick eval you won't be disappointed. In the mean time if you know the CLEP's that you plan on taking will fit into your overall program, keep banging away on them, otherwise you'll waste a couple of months waiting for them to tell you what you already know.

Another point, TESC's customer service is entirely hit and miss....if you talk to the right person and say the right words, you could have your initial evaluation much sooner. How to achieve this goal however varies from day to day and person to person. Maybe the way they handle your new application/evaluation will give us insight into whether a new mindset exists at TESC.

Keep us posted on your progress!

Good luck with your progam!
Excelsior - BS Business 2008
Son #1 TESC BSBA Computer Information Systems completed June 2010
Son #2 TESC BA Computer Science completed November 2010 Currently in Florida State (FSU) Masters CS program and loving it
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#77
RUTurbo Wrote:And you still fail to mention why this merger is bad for any reason.
I think for most of us, the main concern is that TESC will no longer be able to offer the option of 100% testing out - i.e. no residency. Even if they increase their residency to one class, tons of people who go this round will rule them out simply because they don't want to take a class. I wouldn't mind it, but my goal isn't to get my degree done as quickly as possible (though I do want to get it done somewhat quickly).

Also, the Rutger's name isn't as amazing as I think some of you are playing it up to be. It was just a vague name in my head; it took my mom a minute to recognize it at all. Really, the name recognition depends on your location. In some places it may be great (out east, for example), in others less so (chilly Minnesota).

As far as aesthetics go, the very name "Thomas Edison" beats "Rutgers." But I don't think the merger folks are taking that into consideration! Big Grin

As Shoto would say,
[SIZE="7"]EC[/SIZE]
[SIZE="1"]American Government (68) ~ Analyzing & Interpreting Literature (70) ~ Art of the Western World (72) ~ Astronomy (66) ~ ENG407: Chaucer (A) ~ Civil War & Reconstruction (69) ~ College Algebra (62) ~ College Mathematics (73) ~ College Writing (A) ~ English Composition with Essay (59) ~ GRE Literature in English (610/73%tile) ~ Humanities (75) ~ Introduction to Business (62) ~ Introduction to Computing (459) ~ Introduction to Educational Psychology (72) ~ Introduction to World Religions (478) ~ Introductory Psychology (74) ~ Money & Banking (48) ~ Research & Writing (A) ~ Rise & Fall of the Soviet Union (68) ~ ENG 310: Short Stories (A) ~ Introductory Sociology (77) ~ Social Sciences & History (76) ~ Technical Writing (67) ~ US History I (69) ~ US History II (64) ~ Western Civilization I (76) ~ Western Civilization II (65) Western Europe Since 1945 (65) ~ Exam Feedback

Total Credits: 121 ~ DONE: Literature in English BA from Excelsior College[/SIZE]
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#78
I'd never even heard of Rutgers until a couple of days ago:confused:
Set yourself goals, not limitations
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#79
Ruddigore Wrote:I think for most of us, the main concern is that TESC will no longer be able to offer the option of 100% testing out - i.e. no residency. Even if they increase their residency to one class, tons of people who go this round will rule them out simply because they don't want to take a class. I wouldn't mind it, but my goal isn't to get my degree done as quickly as possible (though I do want to get it done somewhat quickly).

Also, the Rutger's name isn't as amazing as I think some of you are playing it up to be. It was just a vague name in my head; it took my mom a minute to recognize it at all. Really, the name recognition depends on your location. In some places it may be great (out east, for example), in others less so (chilly Minnesota).

As far as aesthetics go, the very name "Thomas Edison" beats "Rutgers." But I don't think the merger folks are taking that into consideration! Big Grin

As Shoto would say,
[SIZE="7"]EC[/SIZE]

I think if you live in the NY/NJ/CT/PA area the name Rutgers is going to be pretty well known. How it rates among employers probably depends on the major. Of the NJ schools their engineering department is going to be looked at as lower than Stevens and NJIT. Id think their business school would rank 2nd to Seton Hall. There are probably categories where they rank below MSU and TCNJ. So I think if you are attending TESC and live in the NY/NJ area the Rutgers name will definitely be much more well known than TESC.

But outside of the area I doubt too many folks know Rutgers. Contrary to what someone else said RU does not have a well known sports program. Their football program has been a joke for years and it has not been until the last few years that they have begun to make some of the 2nd tier bowl games. Their basketball program is terrible. I think sports are important in getting a school name recognized outside the area and RU has never been a factor in that category.

But if someone is really worried about the name simply go for a graduate degree at a more well known school, if they can afford it. There are a number of well known schools offering more and more graduate level degrees online every day.
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#80
Jason800 Wrote:I think if you live in the NY/NJ/CT/PA area the name Rutgers is going to be pretty well known. How it rates among employers probably depends on the major. Of the NJ schools their engineering department is going to be looked at as lower than Stevens and NJIT. Id think their business school would rank 2nd to Seton Hall. There are probably categories where they rank below MSU and TCNJ. So I think if you are attending TESC and live in the NY/NJ area the Rutgers name will definitely be much more well known than TESC.

But outside of the area I doubt too many folks know Rutgers. Contrary to what someone else said RU does not have a well known sports program. Their football program has been a joke for years and it has not been until the last few years that they have begun to make some of the 2nd tier bowl games. Their basketball program is terrible. I think sports are important in getting a school name recognized outside the area and RU has never been a factor in that category.

But if someone is really worried about the name simply go for a graduate degree at a more well known school, if they can afford it. There are a number of well known schools offering more and more graduate level degrees online every day.

Rutgers is nationally recognizable. It's in the Big East.
Cleps Passed:
Analyzing and Interpreting Literature
Information Systems and Computer Applications
American Government
Introductory Psychology
Introductory Sociology
Social Sciences and History
History of the United States I
History of the United States II
Western Civilization I
Western Civilization II
Macroeconomics

DSST Passed:
A History of the Vietnam War (3)
Rise and Fall of the Soviet Union (3)
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